Judicial Review thread (2 Viewers)

[bigfatronssba]

So you actually believe that the clubs turnover was in fact £24-25m not £10.8m in 2012/13? That goes against all of the figures OSB has put forward. Yes, talk about people believing what they want to believe....

No I don't believe it. All I'm saying is you cant use the judges argument one minute to support your own opinion, and then completely disregard another comment made in court that the judge seemed to accept.

My argument is this: Where is the evidence to say that the rent was the made cause of the clubs unsustainability?

 

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[bigfatronssba]

there is a cieling of 200,000 euros. after which you need european commision permision, there is no way the council have complied

the problem for ccc is the fact they offered so much and kept the matter a secret from SISU, its anti competitive because SISU were making a play for the ownership of the ricoh, the non payment of rent was not about the rent it was a targeted action to bring down the price of ACL. CCC acted to take the price of ACL back up ... hence all the quotes of 6 million and 12 million etc... CCC faced losing a large amount of money if SISU aquired ACL. Hence the action it took - so it also hiked up its own company worth but by means of public cash not private cash .. . .. in other words state aid.

Local authorities can run business, but they can not use public moneys to do so they are supposed to use banks and act as a tradinig company .

local authority trading companies: here :: https://www.gov.uk/state-aid

So your saying sisu deliberately set out to distress ACL?

 

[ladespiser]

So your saying sisu deliberately set out to distress ACL?

yes of course, hostile takeover tactics - should be expected by a hedge fund specializing in takeovers??

 

[bigfatronssba]

yes of course, hostile takeover tactics - should be expected by a hedge fund specializing in takeovers??

Interesting line of defence.

Sounds like your suggesting ccfc Ltd and Sisu were conspiring to damage the business interests of acl.

 

[Astute]

yes of course, hostile takeover tactics - should be expected by a hedge fund specializing in takeovers??

Specialising in takeovers?

Glad our club isn't run by someone who is shit at it.

 

[dongonzalos]

The problem with that, surely, would be that for SISU to establish themselves as 'competitor' in that context, they'd need to admit the distressing tactic. Which in public protestations they've always denied. 'Average League One rents', 'it's all about revenues, stupid', etc.

Unless they 'fess up, I don't see them as 'competitor' and there falling at the first hurdle?!?

Also again if this correct SISU's action created the situation and leads to no remedies. Making the JR a pointless exercise. Wish they would make a public offer for ACL or Long Term Rent

 

[stupot07]

No I don't believe it. All I'm saying is you cant use the judges argument one minute to support your own opinion, and then completely disregard another comment made in court that the judge seemed to accept.

My argument is this: Where is the evidence to say that the rent was the made cause of the clubs unsustainability?

Never said it was the main cause, but it was a contributing factor along with wage bill. Are you suggested that the £1.3m plus £250k+ matchday costs was sustainable and had no bearing on the year on year losses?

When you trying to bring down costs and efficiency savings you do it from all budgets, you cannot deny that the club have been trying to do this with the wage bill.

And I can do what I want. How do we know the judge seemed to accept it?, because simon didn't tweet it that the judge commented on it?


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[martcov]

yes of course, hostile takeover tactics - should be expected by a hedge fund specializing in takeovers??

Exactly. That's why CCC arranged a loan at better conditions than YB. Well done CCC. Is a conspiracy to distress ACL between SISU, CCFC, and maybe unnamed cayman Isle investors, legal? According to M.L. it is not. Don't know whether he's right, but it is pretty nasty.

 

[sky blue john]

Never said it was the main cause, but it was a contributing factor along with wage bill. Are you suggested that the £1.3m plus £250k+ matchday costs was sustainable and had no bearing on the year on year losses?

When you trying to bring down costs and efficiency savings you do it from all budgets, you cannot deny that the club have been trying to do this with the wage bill.

And I can do what I want. How do we know the judge seemed to accept it?, because simon didn't tweet it that the judge commented on it?


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At least CCFC got something for that money to play in a 32,000 seater stadium for a season.
Currently CCFC are paying 1.8million a year to Arvo in interest alone, how sustainable is that ?

 

[sky blue john]

When we played at the Ricoh we were debt free !!!
Now at Sixfields we are 70million in debt !
Any Sisu supporters stopping to think how that happened ??????

 

[The Gentleman]

At least CCFC got something for that money to play in a 32,000 seater stadium for a season.
Currently CCFC are paying 1.8million a year to Arvo in interest alone, how sustainable is that ?

Don't worry about that John, despite it being way more than the original rent, certain posters never seem to acknowledge it.

 

[spider_ricoh]

Sisu are both incompetent and viscous, I hope they get what's coming to them - every door should get slammed in their face, they should be told "no" at every turn - unfortunately the likes of the FL, the administator and the FA have accommodated them so far, but hopefully they won't be able to worm their way through some legal loophole to get any benefit.

The sooner they realise it's over, the sooner they walk away and we get our club back.

 

[Grendel]

When we played at the Ricoh we were debt free !!!
Now at Sixfields we are 70million in debt !
Any Sisu supporters stopping to think how that happened ??????

Why are you acting like a 5 year old?

 

[covcity4life]

you are obviously the King of Comedy.

wow thank you. thats really nice of you to say. cheers buddy

 

[Grendel]

At least CCFC got something for that money to play in a 32,000 seater stadium for a season.
Currently CCFC are paying 1.8million a year to Arvo in interest alone, how sustainable is that ?

We're Coventry paying these management charges when Paul fletcher was in charge?

 

[sky blue john]

We're Coventry paying these management charges when Paul fletcher was in charge?

To be honest I don't know and don't care !!
What causes me concern is CCFC current situation !!!
Just to clarify the yearly 1.8million CCFC is crippled with is just interest, management charges are likely to be extra on top of this figure. To help you maybe a bit like rent and then extra for match day costs !!!

 

[Grendel]

To be honest I don't know and don't care !!
What causes me concern is CCFC current situation !!!
Just to clarify the yearly 1.8million CCFC is crippled with is just interest, management charges are likely to be extra on top of this figure. To help you maybe a bit like rent and then extra for match day costs !!!

You don't know? So are you saying Elliot and co may have been - really?

I think not.

We're the club in debt without these charges?

 

[italiahorse]

When we played at the Ricoh we were debt free !!!
Now at Sixfields we are 70million in debt !
Any Sisu supporters stopping to think how that happened ??????

Sisu are dumping there company debt into Coventry City.
All these court battles are personnel because they have been out manoeuvred by CCC.

 

[stupot07]

At least CCFC got something for that money to play in a 32,000 seater stadium for a season.
Currently CCFC are paying 1.8million a year to Arvo in interest alone, how sustainable is that ?

It's not sustainable. But again that doesn't make the £1.3m rent ok or sustainable.

I don't get your problem. Saying the rent was too high and unsustainable is never pro sisu nor anti sisu.





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[Astute]

Why are you acting like a 5 year old?

Are you jealous that he is acting older than you are

 

[sky blue john]

You don't know? So are you saying Elliot and co may have been - really?

I think not.

We're the club in debt without these charges?

lol !!
It has no bearing on the current sutuation !!
Your buddies at Sisu said CCFC was debt free !!!
Oops !! Now we are 70million in debt and paying 1.8million in interest a year !!
You obviously don't know who runs and calls the shots at CCFC !!

 

[Hobo]

Why are you acting like a 5 year old?

Probably because he is trying to communicate with a 5 year old.

 

[sky blue john]

It's not sustainable. But again that doesn't make the £1.3m rent ok or sustainable.

I don't get your problem. Saying the rent was too high and unsustainable is never pro sisu nor anti sisu.





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Lol !!
Who said that the rent was ?
Anyway was 1.3 million the last offer on the table ?

 

[Grendel]

Probably because he is trying to communicate with a 5 year old.

Thats interesting - he wasn't talking to me. Who are you referring to?

 

[The Gentleman]

It's not sustainable. But again that doesn't make the £1.3m rent ok or sustainable.

I don't get your problem. Saying the rent was too high and unsustainable is never pro sisu nor anti sisu.





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But i find it a bit odd that some people constantly talk and bring up the rent when the interest payments are far greater and are still in place.

 

[Nick]

Have any interest / management charges actually been paid? I remember OSB and somebody else saying something about them not actually being paid transaction wise but probably just build up?

 

[sky blue john]

But i find it a bit odd that some people constantly talk and bring up the rent when the interest payments are far greater and are still in place.

I can't wait to hear how the Sisu social club try to justify Sisu's rental charges at the new stadium !!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It's not sustainable. But again that doesn't make the £1.3m rent ok or sustainable.

I don't get your problem. Saying the rent was too high and unsustainable is never pro sisu nor anti sisu.

I think the point the poster might be making is that you mention the rent as being unsustainable very often. Which I agree with. But you don't afford the same level of condemnation for interest charges (even though their value, with management charges atop are some 50% higher than the draconian rent agreement) - from which we derive no tangible benefit. This being from the same organisation who's front man described us as being 'debt free' when fans handed their shares over for nothing in 2007. Not to mention significant debts written off by former officers of the club too

 

[The Gentleman]

Have any interest / management charges actually been paid? I remember OSB and somebody else saying something about them not actually being paid transaction wise but probably just build up?

So are you implying the debt doesn't have to be repaid? First thing tomorrow I'm on the phone to Joy asking for the sub, I could do with a new car

 

[Grendel]

I can't wait to hear how the Sisu social club try to justify Sisu's rental charges at the new stadium !!

The sisu social club. Christ.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Have any interest / management charges actually been paid? I remember OSB and somebody else saying something about them not actually being paid transaction wise but probably just build up?

That's immaterial. They increase the level of indebtedness. Which was one of the mechanisms used to protect SISU's interest in administration, if you remember. So, maybe not a cash-transfer value, but certainly a protection of interests value.

(Edited to add as I've just pondered: it would also boost the balance sheet of whichever SISU-group company was invoicing interest/management charges too - probably making that a more attractive financial proposition)

 

[Nick]

So are you implying the debt doesn't have to be repaid? First thing tomorrow I'm on the phone to Joy asking for the sub, I could do with a new car

I'm not saying that, I was just asking if any money has physically been transferred or if it was just sat there mounting up.

 

[martcov]

Have any interest / management charges actually been paid? I remember OSB and somebody else saying something about them not actually being paid transaction wise but probably just build up?

If the investors put more money in every year than 1,8m, and then get 1,8m back, they are effectively paying themselves 1,8m out of their investment. That seems to be a Ponzi scheme. The debts are huge and I doubt whether the Investors will ever get their money back as CCFC is not worth enough to cover the debts. Is this legal?

 

[Moff]

But i find it a bit odd that some people constantly talk and bring up the rent when the interest payments are far greater and are still in place.

The interest payments are clearly very very unsustainable and it is scandalous, more so than the rent, although that was clearly not sustainable as well.

I know we can only look at the here and now, and I desperately long to see the back of SISU and all it stands for, but when I look at the mess we are in, I see a long list of proprietors who have ripped us off over a long period of time, taking high interest from 'loans' to the club, taking percentages from profits on player sales, and so forth. Its got to stop.

I just hope for the day when someone can come in as the clubs owner and look at what business it is, a football club, and run it like one, not some place to offset losses, taxes, and to bleed the club dry.

 

[stupot07]

Lol !!
Who said that the rent was ?
Anyway was 1.3 million the last offer on the table ?

This thread relates to the JR and the rent that was withheld at the time. £1.3m.


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