Judicial Review thread

[stupot07]

If the investors put more money in every year than 1,8m, and then get 1,8m back, they are effectively paying themselves 1,8m out of their investment. That seems to be a Ponzi scheme. The debts are huge and I doubt whether the Investors will ever get their money back as CCFC is not worth enough to cover the debts. Is this legal?

I may be wrong but I'm sure OSB has said the money has never actually been paid out.


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[The Gentleman]

The sisu social club. Christ.

I thought it was quite funny actually. Apparently it is the name for the new pub in the fanzone for the new stadium.

 

[stupot07]

I think the point the poster might be making is that you mention the rent as being unsustainable very often. Which I agree with. But you don't afford the same level of condemnation for interest charges (even though their value, with management charges atop are some 50% higher than the draconian rent agreement) - from which we derive no tangible benefit. This being from the same organisation who's front man described us as being 'debt free' when fans handed their shares over for nothing in 2007. Not to mention significant debts written off by former officers of the club too

Yes, we were never debt free, never bought that line anyway. And you could argue we do benefit from the loan for which the loan interests are for which have kept the club ticking over. I'm like you, I believe football clubs should live within their means and at least breakeven. If you breakeven then you don't need to borrow money, and therefore have no interest to pay.


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[Nick]

Yes, we were never debt free, never bought that line anyway. And you could argue we do benefit from the loan for which the loan interests are for which have kept the club ticking over. I'm like you, I believe football clubs should live within their means and at least breakeven. If you breakeven then you don't need to borrow money, and therefore have no interest to pay.


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I would be happy with being sustainable, I don't think a lot of fans would though would they when they demand signings etc?

 

[Grendel]

I may be wrong but I'm sure OSB has said the money has never actually been paid out.


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Correct it hasn't been.

 

[stupot07]

I would be happy with being sustainable, I don't think a lot of fans would though would they when they demand signings etc?

Agreed. .


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[Hobo]

Strange how some people are so sure on things about legal aid and outcomes of the JR after 1 day of 3 days worth of evidence?

It is no good falling back on the governments 'basic guide' on what is complex legislation.

It also demonstrates certain posters obviously do not understand how things can ebb and flow over a three day hearing. Then allow possibly several weeks for the Judge to go away and write his findings?

Plus the same old arguments are being wheeled out by battle scarred egos.

 

[The Gentleman]

I would be happy with being sustainable, I don't think a lot of fans would though would they when they demand signings etc?

So at what point do we become sustainable? We currently play in the third tier of English football, have a crap budget for new signings, play 35 miles from home, upto our bollocks in debt, average 2k for 'home' games and have owners who quite frankly could not give a shit for us, the team or the city it is supposed to play from. If this is sustainable then please give me back the Richardson era.

 

[martcov]

I may be wrong but I'm sure OSB has said the money has never actually been paid out.


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Better still....... They have it on paper then that they have earned interest, but have never seen it? I fell for one of these in 1996. My statement showed a plus and everything was rosy....until the police called to ask if would help them in a fraud case..... I never saw my money again .... it was last seen heading towards the Caribean according to the investment company's bank.....

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Yes, we were never debt free, never bought that line anyway. And you could argue we do benefit from the loan for which the loan interests are for which have kept the club ticking over. I'm like you, I believe football clubs should live within their means and at least breakeven. If you breakeven then you don't need to borrow money, and therefore have no interest to pay.

But the 'written off' (Robinson, et al) debt hasn't been written off; has it? Therefore, aren't we paying interest on a debt that's not actually there?

 

[Danceswithhorses]

wow thank you. thats really nice of you to say. cheers buddy

No problem-i'm always happy to give credit where credit is due.
Falsely and libellously accusing someone of racism is such an intelligent and deeply funny joke, and i repeat, surely that must make you the King of Comedy.

Ref posts #625, #635 and #640

 

[Rob S]

Exciting times...on my way to court.

No matter what happens today, I've already heard the worst story I'll hear this year. Pro tip: Don't let a nurse tell you stories from work.

 

[Rob S]

PS Nick: Worth starting a Day 2 thread or stick with this one?

 

[dadgad]

So at what point do we become sustainable? We currently play in the third tier of English football, have a crap budget for new signings, play 35 miles from home, upto our bollocks in debt, average 2k for 'home' games and have owners who quite frankly could not give a shit for us, the team or the city it is supposed to play from. If this is sustainable then please give me back the Richardson era.

Exactly......but let us not hark back to Richardson as if it were desirable....please.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Exciting times...on my way to court.

No matter what happens today, I've already heard the worst story I'll hear this year. Pro tip: Don't let a nurse tell you stories from work.

Does it involve Micky Quinn and colonic irrigation?

 

[stupot07]

But the 'written off' (Robinson, et al) debt hasn't been written off; has it? Therefore, aren't we paying interest on a debt that's not actually there?

No I don't think so, I believe we're paying interest on money's borrowed since December 2007 that have been propping up the clubs £6-7m per annum losses. Not the Robinson et al debt. OSB would be the best person to ask.


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[Rob S]

Does it involve Micky Quinn and colonic irrigation?

Close but not too close. Apparently a coat hanger dipped in boiling water is not a good cure for the clap.

 

[torchomatic]

FFS. And that was never sustainable. Hence relegation, massive wage bill and despite selling HR we still couldn't afford the Ricoh build.

If this is sustainable then please give me back the Richardson era.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Close but not too close. Apparently a coat hanger dipped in boiling water is not a good cure for the clap.

'Kinnell! I prefer my approach, prevention as opposed to cure; so I've always found the best defence to be never to shag anyone from Corby....

 

[duffer]

Close but not too close. Apparently a coat hanger dipped in boiling water is not a good cure for the clap.

Wire brush and dettol, that'll sort it out.

 

[Sick Boy]

When we played at the Ricoh we were debt free !!!
Now at Sixfields we are 70million in debt !
Any Sisu supporters stopping to think how that happened ??????

Are you being serious?

 

[covcity4life]

No problem-i'm always happy to give credit where credit is due.
, and i repeat, surely that must make you the King of Comedy.

Ref posts #625, #635 and #640

once again thank you!

p.s i never accused you, read the wording

 

[ladespiser]

Interesting line of defence.

Sounds like your suggesting ccfc Ltd and Sisu were conspiring to damage the business interests of acl.

yes and they sisu continue to do so with the JR. remember that as soon as mutton said hell would freeze over before acl sold to SISU ACL became SISUs competitor. SISU had no real alternative but to attack, it was their only way forward. Or be stuck never getting those funding streams and more importantly the land. (opposite the ricoh)

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

Late kick off for day 2 in court.

The judge has more pressing issues to deal with! He has obviously had enough of Sisu's 'bluster'...

 

[skybluetony176]

Are you being serious?

I think he's making reference to TF while we were playing at the Ricoh saying something along the lines of "the club is debt free as the owners have paid all the debts" not long before we found out we hadn't been paying the rent which was incurring debt on a daily basis and not too many months later going into administration for what was essentially a debt that sisu owed sisu.

I don't recall exactly when he said it but I do remember the footage being on local TV news. If I had to guess I would say it was around November/December 2012. Happy to be corrected if needed.

 

[torchomatic]

Could we have a JR Day Two thread? Would be much easier to keep track then.

 

[Grendel]

Are you being serious?

Sadly yes he is.

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

I have created a day 2 thread chaps.

 

[skybluebeduff]

Big thread just to hear this verdit....

 

[shmmeee]

I would be happy with being sustainable, I don't think a lot of fans would though would they when they demand signings etc?

Everyone says this. "I'd be fine, it's the others that'd be the problem".

Even if that were true, we're hardly pleasing "all of the people all of the time" right now are we?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

yes and they sisu continue to do so with the JR. remember that as soon as mutton said hell would freeze over before acl sold to SISU ACL became SISUs competitor. SISU had no real alternative but to attack, it was their only way forward. Or be stuck never getting those funding streams and more importantly the land. (opposite the ricoh)

Sorry - but that's rubbish. If that's what Mutton did say - and I wouldn't be surprised if he did - it relates to the freehold of the Ricoh and it's surrounding lands. SISU don't need it.

Low rent and access to revenues within the arena is what's needed. So, if they were pushing for freehold, and let's be frank, we've heard Labovich talk in terms of unencumbered freehold - then CCC have every right to say 'no'.

Okay, Mutton's alleged wording is unwise and unhelpful, but if the council's stance is that they retain freeholds on regeneration projects, and that was never on the table when SISU rode into town, and seemingly isn't needed for a competitive forward business model; why should they sell the freehold?

This doesn't make SISU ACL's competitor - only in the context of SISU's ambition. CCC own the freehold, and ACL own the mortgaged leasehold. Such was the status quo in 2007, and didn't change until the time of the rent strike. SISU don't feature in that model that was agreed before they were on the scene, let alone be competitors.

That's like saying I'm a competitor to Kylie Minogue's boyfriend because I fancy her?!?

 

[shmmeee]

I have created a day 2 thread chaps.

Nooo! 100 page MegaThread!

 

[Danceswithhorses]

once again thank you!

p.s i never accused you, read the wording

Falsely and libellously accusing someone of racism is wrong - please do not do it again, to me or anyone else on this site.

 

[skybluetony176]

That's like saying I'm a competitor to Kylie Minogue's boyfriend because I fancy her?!?

Oi, hands of. I saw her first.

 

[Sick Boy]

I think he's making reference to TF while we were playing at the Ricoh saying something along the lines of "the club is debt free as the owners have paid all the debts" not long before we found out we hadn't been paying the rent which was incurring debt on a daily basis and not too many months later going into administration for what was essentially a debt that sisu owed sisu.

I don't recall exactly when he said it but I do remember the footage being on local TV news. If I had to guess I would say it was around November/December 2012. Happy to be corrected if needed.

I am not sure if Fisher made the claim or not. Ranson certainly did and it was lapped up by the fans and used as proof for them to show what wonderful owners sisu were.

Anyone who actually believed we were debt free needs their head checking. I can't believe how many people fell for the spin. The debt didn't go away but it was just owed internally.