Lampard red card (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Nick
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Lamps
Well-Known Member
As.i said it depends on which way the ref interpreted the play.Screenshot from IFAB below, going through almost exactly this scenario.
Just for complete clarity, the defending player here is the the one on his knees attempting to stop EMC's shot from going into the goal, the offside player is Wright.
In the rules, as far as I can see it, this is a 'save', defined by IFAB as "An action by a player to stop or attempt to stop the ball when it is going into or very close to the goal using any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless a goalkeeper within their own penalty area)".
Now you could argue that it was 'deliberate play' rather than a save, but in the rules that can only occur if the player has 'control' of the ball. That's very debatable given the pace the ball was struck at, the distance of the defender from the ball, and the fact that he wasn't on his feet when it hit him.
Without control, it cannot be deliberate play. If it's not deliberate play, a player in an offside position who receives the ball, is offside.
Now you're absolutely entitled to an opinion on it, and I enjoy the debate, but politely, you're not the sole arbiter of facts here. If you want to break down which bit of the rules here people (including me) don't understand, then please do.
It's not as much fun as pulling apart a judicial review bundle, but in the absence of SISU, and with no footy until Monday, it'll have to do.
(My actual solution to all this btw, make offside, offside, and do away with all this active/passive deliberate play/save bollocks. Dinosaur, I know! Like Clough said though, if you're not interfering with play, what are you doing on the pitch!?)
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Did the.player try to.block a shot? Did the ball go to a player in an offside position straight from the block? If so a good goal.
If the GK touches the ball it's a save. The GK doesn't do blocks.
What is Deliberate vs Not Deliberate? (Also called Deliberate vs Deflection) - When a ball is played by an attacker and it goes to a defender we must make a decision on if the touch by the defender is a deliberate play by them or if it was not deliberate. In this page we are going to break down all the parts that go into making this decision for Assistant Referees but we must never forget that a lot of the time this is a team work decision that includes the referee.
In all of these decisions we are assuming that the attacker who receives the ball, after it contacts the defender, was in an offside position.
What do we do if the decision is Deliberate Touch - An Offside offense can not longer be committed
What do we do if the decision is NOT Deliberate Touch - The original decision from the when the attacker played the ball still stands. OFFSIDE
IFAB Definition of ‘Deliberate play’
Deliberate play is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:
passing the ball to a teammate; or
gaining possession of the ball; or
clearing the ball (e.g., by kicking or heading it)
If the pass, attempt to gain possession or clearance by the player in control of the ball is inaccurate or unsuccessful, this does not negate the fact that the player ‘deliberately played’ the ball.
What Constitutes a deliberate play?
The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
The ball was not moving quickly
The direction of the ball was not unexpected
The player had time to coordinate their body movement
It was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control
A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air
Our Considerations when making the decision
Action vs. Reaction - Was the movement by the defender just a reaction to the ball being played and trying to block the ball? OR was this clear movement toward the ball to pass or control it?
Ability to see the ball - Was the defender clearly able to see the ball before they played it or were they obstructed by a teammate / opponent?
Distance - How much distance was there between the ball and the defender when it was played? The less distance the less likely the defender had time to clearly act
Time - How much time did the defender have to act on the ball? The less time a defender has to act the less likely they are to deliberately act on the ball
Speed of the ball - The faster the ball is moving the more difficult it will be for the defender to control the ball
Movement to the ball - The more movement the ball has the more difficult it will be to control the ball. A ball in the air is more difficult to control than a ball on the ground.
Additional Considerations to take into account
Does the player have control of their body? - If the defender is off balance, leaning, stumbling or in another way not in control of their body they won’t be able control the ball.
Is the defender Stretching? - If the Defender is stretching to get to the ball, with their feet / legs or their head, they are not likely to be able to control the ball the way they want to.
Does the player have control of the ball? - Is the defender easily able to control the ball or is the ball bouncing, skipping, moving fast, or in any other way difficult to control it is not deliberate.
To be considered a deliberate play, the Referee must be 100% sure. If there is doubt about control of the body and control of the ball, consider the situation a deflection/offside.
Visit IFAB’s website here to see video explanations of Deliberate vs not Deliberate play - Law 11 - Offside: ‘deliberate play’ guidelines clarified | IFAB
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It all just seems a bit pointless. Rules for the sake of rules. You can't come near the touchline, but can do everything you usually do, just from a better viewpoint. What is the point?
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Bernie Rhodes Nose
Well-Known Member
Unless the stream is minutes behind play
Lamps
Well-Known Member
It seems as though they make some of the rules so they can be interpreted in different ways for when the officials make a mess of it as they frequently do.
Sky Blue Goblin
Well-Known Member
Don‘t some managers manage like that normally. I remember Nigel Pearson at Leicester always watched from a box unless I’m wrong
eyesee
Well-Known Member
...you wouldn't want to be too close to that shit, would you?
he would have stayed at home if he could have.