COVKIDSNEVERQUIT
Well-Known Member
If a referee doesn't like criticism then he shouldn't be a referee.
Lampard red card (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Nick
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If a referee doesn't like criticism then he shouldn't be a referee.
Legia Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Wright was offside but it looked to me like the Burnley player blocked EMC's shot with his arm so should have been a penalty anyway.
TewkesburySkyBlue
Well-Known Member
When oh when are referees going to take a stand against this ultra unsporting behaviour ? A couple of reds should sort it out
pusbccfc
Well-Known Member
Would have been handball with VAR, surely?
Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
So what did Frank say to the Ref? Just watched Manc Derby and Mason Mount told the ref to fuck off and only a yellow
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
He sent him off so he could tell his mates in the pub he had done it
Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
I think Frank said Parker said you were the biggest C£%T ever! And I stuck up for you and said you weren't the biggest
baldy
Well-Known Member
Hmmm - fail
He's clearly offside. Debatable that the defender is playing him on, but even if he is, he's the only 1 player that is as he's further advanced than the keeper. I love how passionately people wear their sky blue tinted glasses, but I've said it a thousand times and it's a FACT, he was offside. Man utd at Wembley on the other hand
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It's baffling the fuck out of me. I don't get who these people are trying to convince? It's one of the most blatant offsides I've seen. People making up rules saying because the defender made a play for the ball it cancels out the offside and all sorts. It's strange. Just face it, the officials (who were shit all afternoon) got it wrong. It WAS offside.
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Here’s the law:
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately played* the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.
The defender has deliberately played the ball, so Wright is considered not to have gained an advantage, is receiving the ball from the defender not EMC, and is therefore not in an off-side position.
Here’s Gary Neville disagreeing with the law (but accepting it is the law) when it benefitted Liverpool on Wednesday: Gary Neville: I don't like rule which allowed Diogo Jota goal | 'Diaz was interfering with play'
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Balli001
Well-Known Member
It's also a fact is was handball before the offside came in to effectHe's clearly offside. Debatable that the defender is playing him on, but even if he is, he's the only 1 player that is as he's further advanced than the keeper. I love how passionately people wear their sky blue tinted glasses, but I've said it a thousand times and it's a FACT, he was offside. Man utd at Wembley on the other hand
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
he’s definitely in an offside position when emc takes the shot but does he make the defender play or touch the ball? No? The defender is blocking the shot when the block is made the ball is free to be played and the whole game is reset
The defender didn't "play" the ball. He blocked a fucking shot. What world are we coming to when a defender can't block a shot (aka, do his fucking job) because it'll play a striker onside. Complete nonsense. He's offside. End of
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Balli001
Well-Known Member
Now check the handball criteria as thats what he stopped it with
Point three seems to cover it from me.
Agree. But that’s the law
Yep. He was blocking a shot, so he expected the direction of the ball
duffer
Well-Known Member
I don't think by any reasonable criteria anyone could claim that the defender had control of the ball.
It's a shot from a short distance away, with the ball moving quickly, and with little time to coordinate movement. The bloke's on his knees, it's rather hard to control a ball from that position. Technically, it's a save.
If it's a handball then you could make a fair case for a penalty, otherwise if there aren't two players between Wright and the goal, I think it's offside.
If you reverse the positions of the goalie and the defender it might (maybe!) make it more clear. If the goalie is coming out to make a save from EMC taking the same position as the defender, and the ball bounces off him and to Wright, then I think most would see it as offside.
Anyway, hardly worth a big row is it? It went our way this time, we've had others that didn't.
My biggest gripe with the ref was that after that he lost control of the game. Maybe he thought he had to even it up, but either way the number of cynical fouls Burnley did any time we threatened a break or got some momentum going was ridiculous.
Maybe a few more cards would've stopped the endless shit housing and opened it up a bit more, maybe it wouldn't, but they certainly deserved more punishment than they got, imho.
It's a shot from a short distance away, with the ball moving quickly, and with little time to coordinate movement. The bloke's on his knees, it's rather hard to control a ball from that position. Technically, it's a save.
If it's a handball then you could make a fair case for a penalty, otherwise if there aren't two players between Wright and the goal, I think it's offside.
If you reverse the positions of the goalie and the defender it might (maybe!) make it more clear. If the goalie is coming out to make a save from EMC taking the same position as the defender, and the ball bounces off him and to Wright, then I think most would see it as offside.
Anyway, hardly worth a big row is it? It went our way this time, we've had others that didn't.
My biggest gripe with the ref was that after that he lost control of the game. Maybe he thought he had to even it up, but either way the number of cynical fouls Burnley did any time we threatened a break or got some momentum going was ridiculous.
Maybe a few more cards would've stopped the endless shit housing and opened it up a bit more, maybe it wouldn't, but they certainly deserved more punishment than they got, imho.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
If the defender blocks the ball he has deliberately played the ball and law 11 says clearing which a blocks is deliberately playing the ball
"
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately played* the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.
Deliberate play’ (excluding deliberate handball) is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:
If the pass, attempt to gain possession or clearance by the player in control of the ball is inaccurate or unsuccessful, this does not negate the fact that the player ‘deliberately played’ the ball."
it's not worth arguing about but that will be why the ref and the assistant didn't give an offside
"
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately played* the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.
Deliberate play’ (excluding deliberate handball) is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:
- passing the ball to a team-mate;
- gaining possession of the ball; or
- clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it)
If the pass, attempt to gain possession or clearance by the player in control of the ball is inaccurate or unsuccessful, this does not negate the fact that the player ‘deliberately played’ the ball."
it's not worth arguing about but that will be why the ref and the assistant didn't give an offside
duffer
Well-Known Member
If the defender blocks the ball he has deliberately played the ball and law 11 says clearing which a blocks is deliberately playing the ball
"
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately played* the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.
Deliberate play’ (excluding deliberate handball) is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:
- passing the ball to a team-mate;
- gaining possession of the ball; or
- clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it)
If the pass, attempt to gain possession or clearance by the player in control of the ball is inaccurate or unsuccessful, this does not negate the fact that the player ‘deliberately played’ the ball."
it's not worth arguing about but that will be why the ref and the assistant didn't give an offside
Again, without trying to bang on about it, how could he have control of the ball when it's hammered at him from a short distance and he's on his knees?
If he doesn't have control, then by definition it can't be deliberately played.
I wonder if it's more likely that the linesman thought they were in line, I doubt we'll ever know.
Either way, it went our way for once, and that makes me happy.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
if he makes a deliberate attempt to block it then it's onside.
It's really not worth arguing about, it's a shite version of the law but it is the current ifab one
Agree, but it is how the laws define “control”.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Well we'll have to agree to differ, but politely, you're completely ignoring the control element here.
Their player isn't in any position to be in control of the ball, and that's the key part of deliberately played. It's an attempted save, there's nothing else he can do from the position he's in, he's just trying to stop the ball from going in the goal which is the definition of a save.
If the goalie goes to make a save in exactly that position, and the ball bounces off him and to Wright in an offside position, is Wright offside?
That's exactly what happens on a regular basis with players following in on shots, and of course it's almost always offside.
Anyhow - we differ, and it's not a big deal. Fair enough, I'll shut up now.
“If the goalie goes to make a save in exactly that position, and the ball bounces off him and to Wright in an offside position, is Wright offside?”Well we'll have to agree to differ, but politely, you're completely ignoring the control element here.
Their player isn't in any position to be in control of the ball, and that's the key part of deliberately played. It's an attempted save, there's nothing else he can do from the position he's in, he's just trying to stop the ball from going in the goal which is the definition of a save.
If the goalie goes to make a save in exactly that position, and the ball bounces off him and to Wright in an offside position, is Wright offside?
That's exactly what happens on a regular basis with players following in on shots, and of course it's almost always offside.
Anyhow - we differ, and it's not a big deal. Fair enough, I'll shut up now.
Yes. Exactly that. The law specifically makes “a save” an exemption. So if the defender blocks the shot and it goes to Wright he’s onside, but if the shot goes to the keeper who saves it, then Wright is offside! Bizarre, but that’s the law
steve cooper
Well-Known Member
Keepers don't always catch the ball when making a save, if an opposition player is in an offside position and the keeper palms / pushes an attempt in the path of the offside player he is deemed offside. This is important to differentiate from what happened because 2 players need to be between the attacker and the goal, one of those players could play the attacker onside if he makes a save (by diving in with his feet for example, as what happened) or controls and loses the ball, but this excludes the goalkeeper for obvious reasons.
Their no. 14 didn't need to be in control of the ball because he made a save according to the rule which states
"A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless [it's] the goalkeeper [and he is] within the penalty area)"
Haji would have been onside if their keeper was between him and the goal, it's important to note that hands and arms beyond the armpit are not counted, so Haji did look to be offside. I hope this helps
Yes, Crucial bit is the interpretation of “a save”. I believe refs are told to interpret this as the last man ie a Goalkeeper or a Defender making a goal line clearance. In this case the defender is not considered to be making a save as the keeper was behind him ready to make a save. Therefore it is interpreted as a clearance, therefore when the ball comes off the defender Hadji is no longer considered to be in an offside position
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Depends on the wording of the criticism.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
if That went to VAR then it’s offside, it’s also a penalty first, so either way it’d still be a goal
Big assumption the penalty would have been scored there
Wright doesn’t miss manyBig assumption the penalty would have been scored there
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Wright doesn’t miss many
He doesn't, but penalties are often saved or missed (there is a difference in my book) and not a given goal, just a given opportunity.
Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
He was bad but not that bad