Latest Sky Blue Trust leter to Timmy (5 Viewers)

[Chipfat]

Is the GS owned by the FL and given as a gift to able the club to play within the league?

 

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[oldskyblue58]

The EFL or FA cannot place law in to the courts. They could petition the government to but I suspect they wont because the trade off would be the loss of the football creditors rule. That rule is what holds the whole pack of cards together. They wont want to lose it.

Non filing of accounts, unpaid tax etc is already covered in the EFL/FA regulations it results in embargos and penalties at the discretion of the EFL board. The first reaction to a problem is not going to be right we will have the share back, simply because of the owners investments in clubs being so large and the court cases on restriction of trade and consequential damages that would follow.

First difficulty is how do you define mis management? Just because we disagree with how things are done does that mean it is mis management or actions inappropriate for the objectives of the club and its owners. The objective could be simply to survive and cutting costs would form part of any such strategy. Just because owners say that's all the money we are putting in doesn't mean they are mis managing either

Administration can be an act imposed by a third party following all sorts of different scenarios is it always because of mismanagement?. In our case our biggest source of income is match day revenues if the team fails to perform but the club have invested in relatively expensive players crowds will drop then that could create losses and a potential for administration is that then mis management or being let down by the players. Of course they could have got cheaper players but that often leads to poor performance and then to financial cost just the same.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Is the GS owned by the FL and given as a gift to able the club to play within the league?

the share is allocated to the team but they have no right of resale. What it allows a team to do is to trade within the EFL. Take it away and you take away the right to trade which would be the basis of a legal case if it was simply snatched back

If a team leaves the EFL in either direction (premiership or non league) it has to hand the share back

 

[Ashdown]

If it really did lead to another move outside of the City then surely that would be just about it, even for the hardiest of CCFC fans ?! The club is just being held to ransom indefinitely and there is not a lot anyone can do apart from walk away and hope that the costs of putting out some sort of team would finally drive the bastards to abandon this disastrous project.

 

[chiefdave]

self sufficient

That's your first step to being able to regulate anything. All clubs to be self sufficient and points penalties if they aren't.

Until they do that there's nothing they can enforce as you're trying to compete with owners prepared to chuck millions away.

 

[oldskyblue58]

That's your first step to being able to regulate anything. All clubs to be self sufficient and points penalties if they aren't.

Until they do that there's nothing they can enforce as you're trying to compete with owners prepared to chuck millions away.

Unless there is a level playing field financially then I agree I am not sure how regulation enforcement would work. I would add also that whilst there is the football creditors rule football will remain outside of normal financial logic.

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

In terms of moving outside the city on an emergency basis I would have no issue with nuneaton or the butts as it is in our catchment area.
If it was permanent then that's a different matter all together.
The politics of this is no longer Sisu expecting to win but are scavenging in the hope salvaging something from shit of their own making.
We are now in the unbelievable position of hoping that Wasps Rugby take a decision to allow us to use a stadium built for us.
I wonder what Micky Adams really felt last weekend? From opening day in 2005 to this must be a reality check, 7000 rattling around and the club where it is.
WE NEED WASPS. WTF.

 

[skybluebeduff]

Why won't the club even comment? It's not like we've waited nearly 4 years since they released new stadium plans is it? oh wait....~

 

[skybluebeduff]

In terms of moving outside the city on an emergency basis I would have no issue with nuneaton or the butts as it is in our catchment area.
If it was permanent then that's a different matter all together.
The politics of this is no longer Sisu expecting to win but are scavenging in the hope salvaging something from shit of their own making.
We are now in the unbelievable position of hoping that Wasps Rugby take a decision to allow us to use a stadium built for us.
I wonder what Micky Adams really felt last weekend? From opening day in 2005 to this must be a reality check, 7000 rattling around and the club where it is.
WE NEED WASPS. WTF.

Micky Adams said live on air that the people who stay away, I.E NOPM, that he don't blame them at all as he would do the same. He genuinely seem to understand what our fans have been through.

 

[Chipfat]

I think most outside observer's see the plight and those who have been connected with the club definitely understand it. But as said before the FL are powerless, unless they step in or change something the game will not alter its path.

 

[Nick]

Micky Adams said live on air that the people who stay away, I.E NOPM, that he don't blame them at all as he would do the same. He genuinely seem to understand what our fans have been through.

I didn't hear it / listen the offer day, did he say nopm?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

This will be key. Other parties have played in to SISU's hands here. Wasps have been in the CT saying they won't speak to the club about a new deal, CCC were seen trying to block any attempt by the club to move to the Butts. All SISU have to do is pass that to the EFL, which you can pretty much guarantee they already have done, and they can then claim they had no other option for whatever they decide to do.

The EFL should say we don't want to speak to you ether, where is the new ground you told us you were going to build last time we backed you.
Go away and build some bridges then come back to us.
Funny how no one wants to speak to them yet it is not their fault.

 

[ccfcway]

you can clearly see it being a "1 year extension" of our agreement on the ricoh

Keeps everyone happy and will mean we will need to have this chat again next year.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

That's the thing though, unfit when the fans start to shout? What will "unfit" be judged on?

Were Leyton Orient fans going on about unfit owners when they were spending 5 figures a week on players like Darius Henderson or just when the money had run out?

I don't disagree with you there should be tighter measures on ground ownership, money etc but how can they suddenly say "no sorry, you have to sell up now". It would be a very dangerous step for them to start just demanding people sell up when the fans start to get pissed off.

On what grounds now could they demand Sisu sell and take the golden share now? The only thing really would be the stadium issue, but again they can't force Wasps to give us a deal can they so it will give SISU more leeway.

The other thing is selling price, SISU could well put it up for sale when they say but demand they want £100m for it and nobody buys it. Would the EFL then decide on how much it is sold for as well?

How they've managed the financials for a start. The claimed figure they're put in is around £100m. Add that to the turnover of the last 10 years (£60m?). Given where the club was when they took over and where it is now, spending that sort of money along the way should be enough to show they're unfit to be the custodians of a professional football club.

 

[Nick]

How they've managed the financials for a start. The claimed figure they're put in is around £100m. Add that to the turnover of the last 10 years (£60m?). Given where the club was when they took over and where it is now, spending that sort of money along the way should be enough to show they're unfit to be the custodians of a professional football club.

Theres no way they can force anything because of that.

 

[skybluebeduff]

I didn't hear it / listen the offer day, did he say nopm?

The people who stay away he said, which instantly categorizes everyone including NOPM.

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

[QUOTE="oldskyblue58, post:

If a team leaves the EFL in either direction (premiership or non league) it has to hand the share back[/QUOTE]


Interesting , is that why Sisu failed to invest in the team to get back into the premiership ,

But have invested in the squad ( signing players on two year contracts) to try and prevent going into non league ?

 

[dongonzalos]

That's the thing, what do people actually think the EFL can do?

It's all well and good shouting with Charlton and Blackburn fans etc but in all seriousness, how can the EFL force Wasps to let us play at the Ricoh if they don't want to for example?

The can’t the blame sits solely with our owners.
Not the EFL and certainly not our fans.

 

[oldskyblue58]

How they've managed the financials for a start. The claimed figure they're put in is around £100m. Add that to the turnover of the last 10 years (£60m?). Given where the club was when they took over and where it is now, spending that sort of money along the way should be enough to show they're unfit to be the custodians of a professional football club.

Sorry CJ but there isn't anything in that which makes them unfit because of mismanagement

It doesn't take much work to show the reality of what was invested and it was nowhere near 100m not even 40m . Talk of 100m is a nonsense. Has Seppala ever put a figure on it ? The turnovers have been spent in running the club just like every other team in the EFL. The fact that the club has failed and gone down divisions is seen as mis management by the fans but in a court of law (which is where it would have to be proven ) is evidence of failure not mismanagement.

There is no legal standard of management or mismanagement to be applied that I am aware of. The owners could very well pull together a very decent argument of necessity to survive. The only way to strip them legally of ownership is to prove fraud and or negligence. Those are higher standards than making bad management decisions. There is no evidence of fraud or negligence that I am aware of

Is there any rule that says owners must keep pouring money in ? Not that I know of. It is blind illogical expectations of football fans

You could argue had the club achieved success on the pitch then Sisu could have got way with it. They have employed some decent managers and some not so. There has been 30m plus put in over 9 years. Other teams have achieved success on much less. So were those managers guilty of mismanagement?

No one should take any of that as a justification of the Sisu involvement. It most definitely is not. Their stewardship has been a complete disaster. But just wanted to illustrate the difficulty of proving mismanagement, it is all but impossible because of the many parties and elements involved

 

[dongonzalos]

Sorry CJ but there isn't anything in that which makes them unfit because of mismanagement

It doesn't take much work to show the reality of what was invested and it was nowhere near 100m not even 40m . Talk of 100m is a nonsense. Has Seppala ever put a figure on it ? The turnovers have been spent in running the club just like every other team in the EFL. The fact that the club has failed and gone down divisions is seen as mis management by the fans but in a court of law (which is where it would have to be proven ) is evidence of failure not mismanagement.

There is no legal standard of management or mismanagement to be applied that I am aware of. The owners could very well pull together a very decent argument of necessity to survive. The only way to strip them legally of ownership is to prove fraud and or negligence. Those are higher standards than making bad management decisions. There is no evidence of fraud or negligence that I am aware of

Is there any rule that says owners must keep pouring money in ? Not that I know of. It is blind illogical expectations of football fans

You could argue had the club achieved success on the pitch then Sisu could have got way with it. They have employed some decent managers and some not so. There has been 30m plus put in over 9 years. Other teams have achieved success on much less. So were those managers guilty of mismanagement?

No one should take any of that as a justification of the Sisu involvement. It most definitely is not. Their stewardship has been a complete disaster. But just wanted to illustrate the difficulty of proving mismanagement, it is all but impossible because of the many parties and elements involved

She hasn’t put a figure on it she just says this.....

How much have Sisu put into CCFC?

“Over £60million. We have put some money in this season to ensure we become self-sufficient. It was very costly when we relieved Steven Pressley and company of their

 

[Grendel]

She hasn’t put a figure on it she just says this.....

How much have Sisu put into CCFC?

“Over £60million. We have put some money in this season to ensure we become self-sufficient. It was very costly when we relieved Steven Pressley and company of their

Oh look you’ve learned how to use bold type you boring fuckwit

 

[dongonzalos]

Oh look you’ve learned how to use bold type you boring fuckwit

30 minutes then it’s bedtime. Get them in quick.
Oh and not to make you look like twat or anything, as I know that’s your job. It was a cut and paste from the CET site. I never added the bold .
:finger::finger::finger:

 

[oldskyblue58]

Then I would say that is a complete nonsense Don..... then ask her to prove it. The figures in the accounts in terms of cash get nowhere close to that. The only way to invest in Ccfc is by putting the money into the company. Rolling up losses and interest or manufacturing debt by using the group set up is not investing in ccfc

 

[ccfcway]

Dear Tim,

I wrote but you still ain't replying
I left my moble, my pager, and my home phone at the bottom
I sent two letters back last autumn, you must not-a got 'em
Bing said there was probably a problem with the fax machine or something
Sometimes I scribble possible sites too sloppy when I jot 'em
But anyways; what's been up? Man how's the ground search going ?
There’s talk of nuneaton, could it be further like billing ?
If I have a son, guess what I'm a call him?
I'm gonna name him Timmy
I read about your lost court case too I'm sorry
I had a friend who went to court over some ground that didn't want him
I know you probably hear this everyday, but I'm your biggest fan
I even got the underground ticket and not just to train stuff where you just ran
I got a room full of your quotes and your pictures man
I like the shit you did with turkeys and eagles too, that shit was phat
Anyways, I hope you get this man, hit me back,
Just to chat, truly yours, your biggest fan
a CCFC fan

 

[dongonzalos]

Then I would say that is a complete nonsense Don..... then ask her to prove it. The figures in the accounts in terms of cash get nowhere close to that. The only way to invest in Ccfc is by putting the money into the company. Rolling up losses and interest or manufacturing debt by using the group set up is not investing in ccfc

I agree, I have seen your analysis of why it is nonsense previously.
She doesn’t put an exact figure on it but she claims it’s iver 60 million.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Sorry CJ but there isn't anything in that which makes them unfit because of mismanagement

It doesn't take much work to show the reality of what was invested and it was nowhere near 100m not even 40m . Talk of 100m is a nonsense. Has Seppala ever put a figure on it ? The turnovers have been spent in running the club just like every other team in the EFL. The fact that the club has failed and gone down divisions is seen as mis management by the fans but in a court of law (which is where it would have to be proven ) is evidence of failure not mismanagement.

There is no legal standard of management or mismanagement to be applied that I am aware of. The owners could very well pull together a very decent argument of necessity to survive. The only way to strip them legally of ownership is to prove fraud and or negligence. Those are higher standards than making bad management decisions. There is no evidence of fraud or negligence that I am aware of

Is there any rule that says owners must keep pouring money in ? Not that I know of. It is blind illogical expectations of football fans

You could argue had the club achieved success on the pitch then Sisu could have got way with it. They have employed some decent managers and some not so. There has been 30m plus put in over 9 years. Other teams have achieved success on much less. So were those managers guilty of mismanagement?

No one should take any of that as a justification of the Sisu involvement. It most definitely is not. Their stewardship has been a complete disaster. But just wanted to illustrate the difficulty of proving mismanagement, it is all but impossible because of the many parties and elements involved

What about removing the club from Coventry and moving it to Northampton. Would this not be evidence of neglect. Even the judge commented that the purpose of this move was to distress ACL, not for the good of the club. When you look how much that move cost the club in terms of lost revenue and goodwill, the numbers don't stack up against taking the reduced rent that was being offered.

 

[skybluetony176]

Dear Tim,

I wrote but you still ain't replying
I left my moble, my pager, and my home phone at the bottom
I sent two letters back last autumn, you must not-a got 'em
Bing said there was probably a problem with the fax machine or something
Sometimes I scribble possible sites too sloppy when I jot 'em
But anyways; what's been up? Man how's the ground search going ?
There’s talk of nuneaton, could it be further ?
If I have a son, guess what I'm a call him?
I'm gonna name him Timmy
I read about your lost court case too I'm sorry
I had a friend who went to court over some ground that he didn’t own
I know you probably hear this everyday, but I'm your biggest fan
I even got the underground ticket and not just to train stuff
I got a room full of your quotes and your pictures man
I like the shit you did with turkeys and eagles too, that shit was phat
Anyways, I hope you get this man, hit me back,
Just to chat, truly yours, your biggest fan
a CCFC fan

Found in the car of a JLR executive who drove a car of a bridge.

True story

 

[dongonzalos]

What about removing the club from Coventry and moving it to Northampton. Would this not be evidence of neglect. Even the judge commented that the purpose of this move was to distress ACL, not for the good of the club. When you look how much that move cost the club in terms of lost revenue and goodwill, the numbers don't stack up against taking the reduced rent that was being offered.

More importantly to the EFL should not be cost, but impact on the fans and customers when they were claiming they were forced out and were building their own stadium.
The judge concluded it was just to devalue another company and where is our new stadium?
ELF are a toothless tiger we all know that.
Don’t waste thinking time on them.

 

[Spud Gun]

Dear Tim,

I wrote but you still ain't replying
I left my moble, my pager, and my home phone at the bottom
I sent two letters back last autumn, you must not-a got 'em
Bing said there was probably a problem with the fax machine or something
Sometimes I scribble possible sites too sloppy when I jot 'em
But anyways; what's been up? Man how's the ground search going ?
There’s talk of nuneaton, could it be further ?
If I have a son, guess what I'm a call him?
I'm gonna name him Timmy
I read about your lost court case too I'm sorry
I had a friend who went to court over some ground that he didn’t own
I know you probably hear this everyday, but I'm your biggest fan
I even got the underground ticket and not just to train stuff
I got a room full of your quotes and your pictures man
I like the shit you did with turkeys and eagles too, that shit was phat
Anyways, I hope you get this man, hit me back,
Just to chat, truly yours, your biggest fan
a CCFC fan

The goals have gone cold, I'm wondering why I watch the games at all,
The board is fucking clueless and the players can't kick a ball,
Even if they could, it'll all be shit because we'd go and sell them all,
Fisher's face reminds me that it's gone so bad, gone so bad...

Sent from my EVA-L19 using Tapatalk

 

[ccfcway]

The goals have gone cold, I'm wondering why I watch the games at all,
The board is fucking clueless and the players can't kick a ball,
Even if they could, it'll all be shit because we'd go and sell them all,
Fisher's face reminds me that it's gone so bad, gone so bad...

Dear Tim, you still ain't called or wrote
I hope you have the chance, I ain't mad
I just think it's messed up, you don't answer fans
If you didn't want to talk to me
Outside at the train station you didn't have to
But you could've signed an autograph for Devon
That's Dions little brother man

He's only 5ft tall
We waited in the blistering cold for you
For 1 hour and you just said "No comment"
That's pretty poor man
You're like his chairman idol
He wants to be just like you man
He likes you more than I do
write back, your biggest fan
ccfc fan

 

[Gaz71]

Joy’s spaghetti

 

[ccfcway]

the beers gone warm I wonder why
we don't get no revenues at all

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Sorry CJ but there isn't anything in that which makes them unfit because of mismanagement

It doesn't take much work to show the reality of what was invested and it was nowhere near 100m not even 40m . Talk of 100m is a nonsense. Has Seppala ever put a figure on it ? The turnovers have been spent in running the club just like every other team in the EFL. The fact that the club has failed and gone down divisions is seen as mis management by the fans but in a court of law (which is where it would have to be proven ) is evidence of failure not mismanagement.

There is no legal standard of management or mismanagement to be applied that I am aware of. The owners could very well pull together a very decent argument of necessity to survive. The only way to strip them legally of ownership is to prove fraud and or negligence. Those are higher standards than making bad management decisions. There is no evidence of fraud or negligence that I am aware of

Is there any rule that says owners must keep pouring money in ? Not that I know of. It is blind illogical expectations of football fans

You could argue had the club achieved success on the pitch then Sisu could have got way with it. They have employed some decent managers and some not so. There has been 30m plus put in over 9 years. Other teams have achieved success on much less. So were those managers guilty of mismanagement?

No one should take any of that as a justification of the Sisu involvement. It most definitely is not. Their stewardship has been a complete disaster. But just wanted to illustrate the difficulty of proving mismanagement, it is all but impossible because of the many parties and elements involved

£100m was a figure in the latest court case. It’s obviously not that much. I agree with you 100% it’s considerably lower and on your suggested figure. An average of £3m a year is probably the absolute maximum given the turnover and true costs.

I know there’s no way of the EFL of taking the share off them for the financial mess they’ve overseen. I’m just saying there should be. Also the comments made by Mr Justice Warren 27 months before they completed the purchase of the club should also be enough to contravene EFL rule ‘F.1.4.2’ but it’s not the case.

 

[Nick]

£100m was a figure in the latest court case. It’s obviously not that much. I agree with you 100% it’s considerably lower and on your suggested figure. An average of £3m a year is probably the absolute maximum given the turnover and true costs.

I know there’s no way of the EFL of taking the share off them for the financial mess they’ve overseen. I’m just saying there should be. Also the comments made by Mr Justice Warren 27 months before they completed the purchase of the club should also be enough to contravene EFL rule ‘F.1.4.2’ but it’s not the case.

How can they take the share because of the finance stuff though? It's impossible to regulate to the point of forcing them to sell.

It's all well and good shouting at them to do it but what do you actually think they can do?

 

[dongonzalos]

How can they take the share because of the finance stuff though? It's impossible to regulate to the point of forcing them to sell.

It's all well and good shouting at them to do it but what do you actually think they can do?

It should be based on the reasons they told the EFL. Why we were moving away.
The assurances they made about the circumstances in which we were coming back, specifically a new stadium.
Then if they ask to move away again the fact they made absolutely no progress at all on the new stadium last time and a judge said what he said.
Not just that they are very bad at running a football club financially.