Lets see how well this goes down on here (1 Viewer)

[Astute]

That was my point. If it’s ok to discriminate on religious grounds, then why can’t people discriminate based on their opinions of black people? Better to say no discrimination. Full stop.

What religion goes against black people?

 

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[Sick Boy]

You are bringing in racist comments into a totally different subject.

Are you surprised that Tatchell says similar to what I have been saying is a fine line?

Both are forms of dicrimination and are completely wrong.

 

[Johnnythespider]

The thing about beliefs is, they are just beliefs, nobody is born with a particular set of beliefs, be they religious or political. They are either learned or forced upon people, gay people are born that way, when someone's beliefs get in the way of them being treated the same way a straight person is treated then they are guilty of discrimination in my eyes, no matter what Peter Tatchall says.

 

[Astute]

The thing about beliefs is, they are just beliefs, nobody is born with a particular set of beliefs, be they religious or political. They are either learned or forced upon people, gay people are born that way, when someone's beliefs get in the way of them being treated the same way a straight person is treated then they are guilty of discrimination in my eyes, no matter what Peter Tatchall says.

Should I be able to get a bacon sarnie in a B&B run by a muslim? Or a full English breakfast with ppork sausages and bacon?

 

[Otis]

The thing about beliefs is, they are just beliefs, nobody is born with a particular set of beliefs, be they religious or political. They are either learned or forced upon people, gay people are born that way.

Johnny, are you free to pop round and explain that to my missus? She is adamant it is a lifestyle choice and is something you can catch off someone.

 

[martcov]

What religion goes against black people?

We are talking about discrimination. No difference. You can’t say one form is ok and the other is not.

 

[martcov]

Should I be able to get a bacon sarnie in a B&B run by a muslim? Or a full English breakfast with ppork sausages and bacon?

If it is on the menu, yes.

 

[Grendel]

We are talking about discrimination. No difference. You can’t say one form is ok and the other is not.

It seems Tatchells point has gone above you and your fellow anti free speech torch bearers head. His point is the opposite you are making. If someone wanted a cake with “I hate Israel” on it to a Jewish baker are you saying he has to make that? Or a Christian message in a Muslim shop?

 

[martcov]

What religion goes against black people?

Christianity. Mormonism. At least for hundreds of years Christianity was used to justify slavery in the USA, South Africa and British colonies. Mormons believed that black people were cursed by god until fairly recently.

 

[martcov]

It seems Tatchells point has gone above you and your fellow anti free speech torch bearers head. His point is the opposite you are making. If someone wanted a cake with “I hate Israel” on it to a Jewish baker are you saying he has to make that? Or a Christian message in a Muslim shop?

A hate message is a hate message and should be refused.

 

[Grendel]

A hate message is a hate message and should be refused.

As I say this one is beyond your understanding.

 

[martcov]

It seems Tatchells point has gone above you and your fellow anti free speech torch bearers head. His point is the opposite you are making. If someone wanted a cake with “I hate Israel” on it to a Jewish baker are you saying he has to make that? Or a Christian message in a Muslim shop?

Do you agree with Somali taxi drivers at a US airport refusing to take passengers with duty free alcohol? Freedom of speech?

 

[martcov]

As I say this one is beyond your understanding.

I don’t think so. Answer my question.

 

[Johnnythespider]

Should I be able to get a bacon sarnie in a B&B run by a muslim? Or a full English breakfast with ppork sausages and bacon?

Yes you should, a pair of tongs means there is no need for them to handle the pork . Again though this is about beliefs rather than someone being treated unequally.

 

[Grendel]

Do you agree with Somali taxi drivers at a US airport refusing to take passengers with duty free alcohol? Freedom of speech?

Again if this is due to religious beliefs yes

 

[Grendel]

I don’t think so. Answer my question.

I have - I believe in freedom of the individual to choose and I believe in open debate. I don’t belief in a society that bans such things.

 

[Johnnythespider]

I have - I believe in freedom of the individual to choose and I believe in open debate. I don’t belief in a society that bans such things.

Then surely in that spirit all businesses should accept that they may have to provide services that they may not agree with, it's not as if they would have been breaking the law by putting the message he wanted on the cake

 

[martcov]

I have - I believe in freedom of the individual to choose and I believe in open debate. I don’t belief in a society that bans such things.

If I get discriminated against because my religious beliefs allow alcohol, I would be well pissed off standing in the rain whilst some jerk who believes in a fairy in the sky drives off in his taxi.

 

[Astute]

If I get discriminated against because my religious beliefs allow alcohol, I would be well pissed off standing in the rain whilst some jerk who believes in a fairy in the sky drives off in his taxi.

So it is OK to discriminate against religious beliefs?

 

[martcov]

So it is OK to discriminate against religious beliefs?

No. Not if you are in business. I was discriminated against in the Caribbean. One time I was waiting for the dollar bus. It came and the driver said „white‘s don’t ride‘. Black people got on and I was left confused and angry. As I say, even if the guy didn’t like white people, he has no right to discriminate. I don’t care about his views. Same with Somali taxi drivers. Don’t take fares at an airport where people are likely to have duty free alcohol. I also got into a row at Jeddah airport about the way they were treating westerners in transit to a land which allows alcohol. I’ve seen racism against people of colour in Cov. I also remember Paki bashing and queer bashing in Cov. If you’re in business you should not discriminate. We’ve moved on.

 

[Astute]

No. Not if you are in business. I was discriminated against in the Caribbean. One time I was waiting for the dollar bus. It came and the driver said „white‘s don’t ride‘. Black people got on and I was left confused and angry. As I say, even if the guy didn’t like white people, he has no right to discriminate. I don’t care about his views. Same with Somali taxi drivers. Don’t take fares at an airport where people are likely to have duty free alcohol. I also got into a row at Jeddah airport about the way they were treating westerners in transit to a land which allows alcohol. I’ve seen racism against people of colour in Cov. I also remember Paki bashing and queer bashing in Cov. If you’re in business you should not discriminate. We’ve moved on.

You have gone off track again.

Is it OK to discriminate against religious beliefs?

You say no discrimination is allowed. So wouldn't it be an enforced discrimination by forcing someone to do something against their religious belief?

And it is beside the point of god or jesus or whoever it was that was supposed to be white in a country of black people. That is their belief. Who are we to knock it?

 

[Astute]

It is a difficult question but I am not comfortable with kind of discrimination. Should someone be able to refuse service based on the colour of their skin?

Is religious grounds anything to do with the colour of someones skin as you are making out? After all you get black Christians. You get white muslims.

 

[martcov]

Is religious grounds anything to do with the colour of someones skin as you are making out? After all you get black Christians. You get white muslims.

You seem to think sexual preference is ok to discriminate against, but not skin colour? It isn’t.

 

[Astute]

You seem to think sexual preference is ok to discriminate against, but not skin colour? It isn’t.

FFS are you calling me racist?

It wasn't me bringing in skin colour to make a point. It wasn't me alleging racism to make a point. Religion is nothing to do with the colour of someone's skin.

So I ask again. Do you think it is OK to discriminate against someones religion?

 

[Grendel]

We are talking about discrimination. No difference. You can’t say one form is ok and the other is not.

The case of the B and B where the hotel refused a gay couple to stay in the hotel wasn’t discrimination against their sexuality.

 

[rondog1973]

I have - I believe in freedom of the individual to choose and I believe in open debate. I don’t belief in a society that bans such things.

'No dogs, no Irish, no blacks'

Reassuringly Grendel approved...

 

[Grendel]

'No dogs, no Irish, no blacks'

Reassuringly Grendel approved...

A curiously ill informed and irrational statement

It’s clearly you who approves of discrimination not I - “no Jews, no Muslims no Christians are allowed to have beliefs in my society if they do not conform to my rules”

 

[martcov]

A curiously ill informed and irrational statement

It’s clearly you who approves of discrimination not I - “no Jews, no Muslims no Christians are allowed to have beliefs in my society if they do not conform to my rules”

Everyone has the right to believe in fairies, unicorns or gods, but they shouldn’t have the right to refuse service to people who don’t believe in their fairies or base the refusal on what the supposed fairies or gods supposedly require of human beings. Ridiculous. What if a Saudi Wahabi muslim fanatic buys CCFC and bans alcohol at games? Will you be on here saying, „sure if that’s his belief, fine by me“?

 

[Grendel]

Everyone has the right to believe in fairies, unicorns or gods, but they shouldn’t have the right to refuse service to people who don’t believe in their fairies or base the refusal on what the supposed fairies or gods supposedly require of human beings. Ridiculous. What if a Saudi Wahabi muslim fanatic buys CCFC and bans alcohol at games? Will you be on here saying, „sure if that’s his belief, fine by me“?

I don’t know if you are being deliberately thick or it comes naturally.

Why you have to use ridiculous phrases like “Saudi Wahabi Fanatic” rather than a practicing Muslim is beyond me.

Yes why shouldn’t a Muslim do that if they owned it. What’s the differences to a Vegan owning a football club and banning the sale of meat. You’d object to that as well would you?

 

[martcov]

You have gone off track again.

Is it OK to discriminate against religious beliefs?

You say no discrimination is allowed. So wouldn't it be an enforced discrimination by forcing someone to do something against their religious belief?

And it is beside the point of god or jesus or whoever it was that was supposed to be white in a country of black people. That is their belief. Who are we to knock it?

Are you saying that forcing businesses not to discriminate is discrimination?

 

[Astute]

Everyone has the right to believe in fairies, unicorns or gods, but they shouldn’t have the right to refuse service to people who don’t believe in their fairies or base the refusal on what the supposed fairies or gods supposedly require of human beings. Ridiculous. What if a Saudi Wahabi muslim fanatic buys CCFC and bans alcohol at games? Will you be on here saying, „sure if that’s his belief, fine by me“?

Are you saying that nobody has the right to not have their religious beliefs discriminated against?

 

[martcov]

I don’t know if you are being deliberately thick or it comes naturally.

Why you have to use ridiculous phrases like “Saudi Wahabi Fanatic” rather than a practicing Muslim is beyond me.

Yes why shouldn’t a Muslim do that if they owned it. What’s the differences to a Vegan owning a football club and banning the sale of meat. You’d object to that as well would you?

A practicing Muslim probably wouldn’t give a toss what others do. Only a fanatical religious person would ban alcohol sale or not accept gays in a B and B.

Vegans are not discriminating because of religion or sky wizards. They would be selling ethically produced food, which is a bit different to imposing their religious views on others. I wouldn’t feel discriminated against because of food standards being offered.

I could still drink vegan beer as well.

 

[martcov]

Are you saying that nobody has the right to not have their religious beliefs discriminated against?

No, I am saying businesses shouldn’t be allowed to discriminate based on their religious beliefs.

 

[Astute]

Are you saying that forcing businesses not to discriminate is discrimination?

You say that nobody should be discriminated against. But you also say that it's OK to discriminate against religious beliefs.

And you refuse to see that there is a fine line between the two.

 

[martcov]

Tbf there are a lot of Muslim Döner shops here that don’t sell alcohol, but that is not the same as discrimination against people with duty free or against gays in a B and B because the offer is the same for everyone regardless of religion or sexual preference.