Man Beheaded in the street in Woolwich (2 Viewers)

[ccfc92]

SBT:

I just cannot see how you can justify that today, 2 men butchered a man in the street. In front of a school. Forget all other factors, and just explain to me how you think this is acceptable?

 

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[CJparker]

SBT:

I just cannot see how you can justify that today, 2 men butchered a man in the street. In front of a school. Forget all other factors, and just explain to me how you think this is acceptable?

When did he say that is was acceptable? He isn't justifying it.

Although he is saying "the West is responsible in some way due to "our" actions" - annoying nonsense. But he is clearly not defending what has gone on today.

 

[Sky_Blue_Daz]

country is going to wreck and ruin, its going to get worse.
What can be done, to sort it out? Nothing because It will be seen as an infingemnt on peoples human rights worlds a mess and I fear for us all

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Fine words from an admitted socialist...please don't insult UKIP by branding them with the BNP. There is nothing wrong with nationalism if it is channelled in the right way - look at the Olympics or when England play in the World Cup. We are too shy about being proud of our Britishness in this country - EU integration would be a nightmare. Personally I'd prefer to see us as the 51st state of the US, which we are far closer to in terms of values and culture.

Is that meant to be an insult because I'm a socialist?

They are both nationalistic parties, that's my point - with a bit of research there are many UKIP councillors etc. with racist pasts and even at present liked racist pages on Facebook, an example, is that councillor who gave a nazi salute and was found by The Sun. UKIP will wither away in the next 5 odd years, these extremist parties have their 15m of fame.

Having national identity isn't necessarily bad, but nationalism by and large is a bad thing because it creates a slightly chauvinistic attitudes to other people, thus is divisive. As a country, we're becoming hostile to benefits, but a foreigner on a benefits is on another level for some, well that isn't right, the reason why people need benefits should be tackled, e.g. Employment, people have jobs, they won't claim unemployment benefit, simple, and austerity only make more people unemployed.

The British are quite condescending actually.

I'm not against further EU integration, the EU will either crumble, or it will enforce greater integration, it's a watershed moment for the Union.

 

[cloughie]

6 years before intervention in Iraq so that's irrelevant, it was 9/11 that made Iraq happen, not the Kurdish-Iraq civil war.

I'm I'll-formed? Yet you make a sweeping statement that has no evidence while I have an example that refutes that, Lebanon, Christians and Muslims co-exist together and there is a certain ratio of Christian:Muslim ministers to ensure proportional representation of both religions. Also, Hezballoh have also support building of Synogogues etc. in Lebanon.

Syria also have ministers who are Orthodox Christians in Government.

All religions get persecuted time to time, you name them, they're as bad as each other, look at Israel and Iran, bad as each other, neither are right.

I have plenty of evidence you fool, 1 example , now lebonon may have a more equal poplation of both yet, as I certainly know more about this subject than you , why don't you research china , India just for a start

I will help you, google, Christians persecuted in China or India, I haven't done it but as I know I'm sure there will be plenty of evidence

There are more countries similar

 

[ccfc92]

When did he say that is was acceptable? He isn't justifying it.

Although he is saying "the West is responsible in some way due to "our" actions" - annoying nonsense. But he is clearly not defending what has gone on today.

but he is hinting soldiers are "murdering" civilians in afghan. they are there ding their jobs, and trying to help. so I don't buy this "the west started it, so terrorists have a right to do this"

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

When did he say that is was acceptable? He isn't justifying it.

Although he is saying "the West is responsible in some way due to "our" actions" - annoying nonsense. But he is clearly not defending what has gone on today.

So the Iraq and Afghan wars have nothing to do with the growth of extremist Islamist groups in the Middle East, which has spread.

 

[Grendel]

Most know on here that you are a complete tool but this is the most ridiculous staement for a long time

65 million people in this country so !.5 million make us nationalistic and also the tories are a minority government as in the amount of people who voted for them

For once we are in agreement.

Someone died a d sky blue Taylor decides to bore us with his 6th form debating society crap. It's not appropriate. It's not even appropriate arguing against it.

Of course the irony is that people like him would never be allowed to express any such views in the kind of utopian state controlled society he craves for. He'd be frogmarched off to the gulag before he could say "power to the people".

He has youth as an excuse and will look back and laugh in years to come but threads discussing someone who died in obviously dubious circumstances really should show some dignity and respect.

 

[ccfc92]

So the Iraq and Afghan wars have nothing to do with the growth of extremist Islamist groups in the Middle East, which has spread.

so why is the animal on camera british sounding?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

but he is hinting soldiers are "murdering" civilians in afghan. they are there ding their jobs, and trying to help. so I don't buy this "the west started it, so terrorists have a right to do this"

Doing their jobs? Some are, some aren't, but some servicemen have committed war crimes and your comments are terribly ill-informed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/29/afghanistan-british-army-crimes

 

[CJparker]

For once we are in agreement.

Someone died a d sky blue Taylor decides to bore us with his 6th form debating society crap. It's not appropriate. It's not even appropriate arguing against it.

Of course the irony is that people like him would never be allowed to express any such views in the kind of utopian state controlled society he craves for. He'd be frogmarched off to the gulag before he could say "power to the people".

He has youth as an excuse and will look back and laugh in years to come but threads discussing someone who died in obviously dubious circumstances really should show some dignity and respect.

For once we are in agreement!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

so why is the animal on camera british sounding?

Did you miss the 'which has spread part'?

 

[cloughie]

For once we are in agreement.

Someone died a d sky blue Taylor decides to bore us with his 6th form debating society crap. It's not appropriate. It's not even appropriate arguing against it.

Of course the irony is that people like him would never be allowed to express any such views in the kind of utopian state controlled society he craves for. He'd be frogmarched off to the gulag before he could say "power to the people".

He has youth as an excuse and will look back and laugh in years to come but threads discussing someone who died in obviously dubious circumstances really should show some dignity and respect.

Thats my 2nd like for you Grendel

Well summed up

Unfortunately the ignorance of youth sometimes makes me angry

 

[kg82]

FFS, what a shit thread.

What happened today is horrendous. Reports HAVE come out, by the way, that this is terrorism and that the victim WAS beheaded (or as good as). They should have blown their heads off, I agree with that. But once they haven't it's the authorities obligation to treat them. I also I agree with this for a few reasons. 1) They wanted to die, so that would give them their martyrdom (fuck that), 2) I feel I'd sink as low as them if I called for them to be punished in the same way as they treated that man, or just let them bleed out (fits with point 1 too) and 3) The authorities need to at least TRY and get information out of them. If this is a large extremist group they may have other plans. Likelihood is they won't talk, but you can't take that chance with something like this.

 

[ccfc92]

Doing their jobs? Some are, some aren't, but some servicemen have committed war crimes and your comments are terribly ill-informed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/29/afghanistan-british-army-crimes

I'd say the majority are, the 1% aren't. I know our forces aren't all saints, but not many behead or butcher people in the street.

 

[ccfc92]

Did you miss the 'which has spread part'?

did you miss them still going on about the crusades part? they have hated the west long before 2001. the WTC was bombed before. so don't give me this shit about 2001 and 2003 invasions causing this, when the crusades happened a thousand years ago and this is what started it. and before you hop on google, idk when the exact year the crusades were.

 

[CJparker]

Is that meant to be an insult because I'm a socialist?

The British are quite condescending actually.
.

Yes - it's a ridiculous ideology, thoroughly discredited. If you are interested in seeing the effects of full blown socialism, visit North Korea.

Nobody is as condescending as you.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I have plenty of evidence you fool, 1 example , now lebonon may have a more equal poplation of both yet, as I certainly know more about this subject than you , why don't you research china , India just for a start

I will help you, google, Christians persecuted in China or India, I haven't done it but as I know I'm sure there will be plenty of evidence

There are more countries similar

India and China aren't Muslim countries and you explicitly said that 'You are an ill informed fool all Christians in muslim countries are a persecuted minority', where's you examples of what you say?

You also conveniently ignored the part where I clearly said it has happened to all religions who are minorities in those countries, Britain has a history of persecution towards Catholics and Protestants (depends what era).

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Yes - it's a ridiculous ideology, thoroughly discredited. If you are interested in seeing the effects of full blown socialism, visit North Korea.

Nobody is as condescending as you.

Stalinism isn't socialism, Marx/Lenin would be turning in their graves if they were to visit DPRK or state capitalist countries such as China or the former USSR.

Well, I must have received those traits from my Britishness then.

 

[kg82]

India and China aren't Muslim countries and you explicitly said that 'You are an ill informed fool all Christians in muslim countries are a persecuted minority', where's you examples of what you say?

You also conveniently ignored the part where I clearly said it has happened to all religions who are minorities in those countries, Britain has a history of persecution towards Catholics and Protestants (depends what era).

Yep, it's your ignorance on this. I haven't looked either, but look up the persecution that took place where all Indian muslims fled to Pakistan.

 

[kg82]

Fuck me, still debating the pros and cons of economic systems. Pathetic.

 

[cloughie]

India and China aren't Muslim countries and you explicitly said that 'You are an ill informed fool all Christians in muslim countries are a persecuted minority', where's you examples of what you say?

You also conveniently ignored the part where I clearly said it has happened to all religions who are minorities in those countries, Britain has a history of persecution towards Catholics and Protestants (depends what era).

I refer you to Grendels comments you are not worth another reply

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I'd say the majority are, the 1% aren't. I know our forces aren't all saints, but not many behead or butcher people in the street.

And those 'terrorists' who did that are in the 1% as well - does that make it better? It doesn't to me.

 

[ccfc92]

And those 'terrorists' who did that are in the 1% as well - does that make it better? It doesn't to me.

i dont get what your arguing?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

did you miss them still going on about the crusades part? they have hated the west long before 2001. the WTC was bombed before. so don't give me this shit about 2001 and 2003 invasions causing this, when the crusades happened a thousand years ago and this is what started it. and before you hop on google, idk when the exact year the crusades were.

That's not as relevant now, if anything the Zionist movement has intensified the feeling in the Middle East, the long term issue for this, and short term has been the gulf wars, I'd be pissed, as I'm sure much of us on here would be if foreign troops were in the UK, it gives the extremists an audience to speak to. Like in all times of crisis.

 

[ccfc92]

That's not as relevant now, if anything the Zionist movement has intensified the feeling in the Middle East, the long term issue for this, and short term has been the gulf wars, I'd be pissed, as I'm sure much of us on here would be if foreign troops were in the UK, it gives the extremists an audience to speak to. Like in all times of crisis.

but you said a minute ago that its our fault for being in iraq? so why is relevant? we pulled out 4 years ago?

 

[Johnnythespider]

No, 9/11 claimed 3000 odd lives and many more injured, 7/7 claimed 52 people, 700 injured, more people died jumping out of the WTC than people killed by the blasts of 7/7 to have the 2 tragedies on the same level is actually a joke and actually, an insult to 9/11.

Lets not forget that the USA is a country that is excessively nationalistic.

To say

people don't give a shit about 7/7 is bullshit and you know it!

Ill-informed.

I have never read such a load of pre pubescent twaddle in my entire life. You seem more interested in attacking the comments of people who are genuinely sickened and outraged by this act
than showing a sense of disgust that an innocent person has been hacked to pieces in broad daylight. Unbelievable

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Fact check time:
1) we're not in Iraq, we pulled out in 2009
2) the UK and USA have fought organisations that threaten them who happen to be Islamic, we have not targeted "Islam" - there is no reason for Muslims to feel antagonised per se
3) Different nationality soldiers patrolling the streets - the killers in Woolwich were British, they have no excuse for taking "revenge"
4) Congo has huge natural resources as does North Korea
5) We liberated the Iraqis and Afghans, as they could not liberate themselves under the iron fist of previous regimes - the terrorists have fought back there, not the people, because they were being threatened by the spread of democracy

1) The damage had been done
2) I never said the UK or USA targeted those countries because they were Islamic
3) Hence there are also terrorist plots in other countries, and I think UK and USA were biggest contributors so it seems obvious that we'd both get it.
4) Amateur mistake, I was just thinking of oil, my bad
5) We liberated France from the Nazis, they hate that fact we liberated them and have conjured myths that they did themselves, making Allied involvement almost invisible. David Starkey does a good piece on this on BBC QT when asked about intervening in Syria - People want to liberate themselves, without 'help'.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I have never read such a load of pre pubescent twaddle in my entire life. You seem more interested in attacking the comments of people who are genuinely sickened and outraged by this act
than showing a sense of disgust that an innocent person has been hacked to pieces in broad daylight. Unbelievable

That post was directed at a comment about 7/7 being on par with 9/11, which isn't really, so I don't know where this comment has come from.

 

[deanocity3]

40 years ago every irish person we thought was a member of the IRA,
Coventry was bombed by them.little park street area was done.
Not all the people from the same race/religion are terrorists.

 

[sw88]

That post was directed at a comment about 7/7 being on par with 9/11, which isn't really, so I don't know where this comment has come from.

SBT I think for your own sake you admit defeat. There's a time for expressing your opinion, and I appreciate your entitled to do this, but I really don't think a post of this mature is the time to continue with your arguments.

Someone has lost their life. Someone has lost a son. A brother. A colleague. Comparing terrorist attacks is really not appropriate

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

40 years ago every irish person we thought was a member of the IRA,
Coventry was bombed by them.little park street area was done.
Not all the people from the same race/religion are terrorists.

It's always a small minority.

 

[deanocity3]

It's always a small minority.

Thats what city fans are in coventry

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Thats what city fans are in coventry

Unfortunately.

 

[cloughie]

I have never read such a load of pre pubescent twaddle in my entire life. You seem more interested in attacking the comments of people who are genuinely sickened and outraged by this act
than showing a sense of disgust that an innocent person has been hacked to pieces in broad daylight. Unbelievable

Well said !