Man Beheaded in the street in Woolwich (2 Viewers)

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Sky's Tim Marshall: "Sources believe that the men are British, however at least one of them is of Nigerian descent, probably both born in the UK, both Londoners, and at least one of them we think has converted from a Christian background to Islam around 10 years ago."

I can't believe that someone would be so heavily infuenced by others to fully believe in sound mind that what they did here is right. It's not an eye for an eye as I believe in Afghan our troops go for a clean painless kill usually with assault rifle. As far as I am aware it is not UK forces standard practice to crash a car into someone, stab and hack them to death and then drag them into the middle of a street and try to decapitate them.

If they had randomnly picked off a soldier leaving the barracks with a gun then maybe I could understand (not agree with or sympathise) the concept of an eye for an eye. But brutality is not quite an equivelant.

Rich said:

I can't believe that someone would be so heavily infuenced by others to fully believe in sound mind that what they did here is right. It's not an eye for an eye as I believe in Afghan our troops go for a clean painless kill usually with assault rifle. As far as I am aware it is not UK forces standard practice to crash a car into someone, stab and hack them to death and then drag them into the middle of a street and try to decapitate them.

If they had randomnly picked off a soldier leaving the barracks with a gun then maybe I could understand (not agree with or sympathise) the concept of an eye for an eye. But brutality is not quite an equivelant.

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Think you've cleared up your own query in your first sentence Rich - the thing about sound mind. There's no way these men can be judged to be of sound mind. They may be "thinking clearly", but obsession with their "ideals" and doing what they did yesterday suggests they are far from sound mind!

Macca, I agree with you. Immigration has to be controlled. Like you said in an earlier post, immigration is good in principle. But the way it's been done since Labour, letting practically anyone in, has seen it spiral. The thing is, if it carries on like this you can see an uprising against every foreigner getting a lot stronger with more supporters. I don't want that.

EDIT: forgot to say, I realise these people were not immigrants either. I find that even more sad that people from our country are turning against it in that way. The reason I put about immigration is because of the extremist element.

The EDL are a bunch of glorified football hooligans, but hey at least they are angry, rather than the hand wringing weak politicians and tutting public.

On one side there is the majority of the public, scared of their own shadow, worried about discussing sensitive issues out loud.

Our enemies murderous savages happy to die for what they stand for and fearless.

Only see one result long term

Macca said:

The EDL are a bunch of glorified football hooligans, but hey at least they are angry, rather than the hand wringing weak politicians and tutting public.

On one side there is the majority of the public, scared of their own shadow, worried about discussing sensitive issues out loud.

Our enemies murderous savages happy to die for what they stand for and fearless.

Only see one result long term

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Agreed about everyone being scared to say certain things in public. This was also epitomised yesterday with the Sergio Garcia comments to Tiger Woods. I just didn't get it, they obviously weren't a racial slur (although I see the connotations). He was merely saying it in jest. Woods even had fried chicken for his champions meal after his first US masters win! And I also don't quite get how referencing food has now become a racial slur? It's like saying to my nan "oh, you can come round for spam every night" because they had that rationed in times of extreme hardship?!

EDIT: Sorry, I've gone totally off topic there!

I'm quite angry about this today, and worried about coming over like Adolf bloody Hitler but it seems that yesterday was a pivotal moment in our history.

I suppose again what annoyed me was that on all channels the first concern was for the wider Muslim community. Now o.k that is an issue that I agree with. I don t want any mates of mine beaten up because of their religion BUT is it really the prime concern. A young man is hacked to death on the streets of his own country, thats what matters.

Ultimately just like anyone, white brown or black I am proud of my culture (though thats not fashionable for a white Englishman) and what happened yesterday was not part of my culture.

I believe that whoever it offends we should ensure that this has no place here as ruthless and draconian as it has to be.

I also understand that the two culprits were essentially British. However many of the people who preach hate and groom such morons seemingly without interference are not and have no place here.

ccfc92 said:

fuck it, send em to the tower of london, dust off the old instruments

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And they should face public trial!!!

Macca said:

The EDL are a bunch of glorified football hooligans, but hey at least they are angry, rather than the hand wringing weak politicians and tutting public.

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From what I saw of the EDL last night on the news they looked anything other than angry and upset, they looked gloriously happy having a beer and the chance to beat up some Muslims.

Macca said:

I'm quite angry about this today, and worried about coming over like Adolf bloody Hitler but it seems that yesterday was a pivotal moment in our history.
I also understand that the two culprits were essentially British. However many of the people who preach hate and groom such morons seemingly without interference are not and have no place here.

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British or a direct result of poor immigration control? They are first generation brits, their parents are Nigerian (I think) and they appear to be proud of their heritage. Although I accept BRITAIN is and always has been quite a diverse society, going right back to Viking invasions and Roman invasions. I think that we need to stop now, a brit is essentially a white/black christian/atheist person. Sikh, Muslim, Jew, Bhuddist and other religions are not British religions. In Britain people are Christian hence Church of England. Whilst a person is of foreign descent practicing a religion that is more suitable for their home countries and not embracing BRITISH culture how can they ever claim to be BRITISH? British people do not eat Halal meet, pray to allah 5 times a day, wear the 5 K's. Brits wear helmets when riding motorcycles because their Turbans are not in the way. Until BRITISH values are totally acepted by people of foreign descent they will never class themselves as british or be classed as such. Mohammed (the most popular boys name in the UK) is not British.

Rich said:

British or a direct result of poor immigration control? They are first generation brits, their parents are Nigerian (I think) and they appear to be proud of their heritage. Although I accept BRITAIN is and always has been quite a diverse society, going right back to Viking invasions and Roman invasions. I think that we need to stop now, a brit is essentially a white/black christian/atheist person. Sikh, Muslim, Jew, Bhuddist and other religions are not British religions. In Britain people are Christian hence Church of England. Whilst a person is of foreign descent practicing a religion that is more suitable for their home countries and not embracing BRITISH culture how can they ever claim to be BRITISH? British people do not eat Halal meet, pray to allah 5 times a day, wear the 5 K's. Brits wear helmets when riding motorcycles because their Turbans are not in the way. Until BRITISH values are totally acepted by people of foreign descent they will never class themselves as british or be classed as such. Mohammed (the most popular boys name in the UK) is not British.

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So which are you Roman or Viking?

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:

So which are you Roman or Viking?

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Actually a cross between English, Czech and Polish. My Grandparents were refugees that ended up here after WW2.

Rich said:

Actually a cross between English, Czech and Polish. My Grandparents were refugees that ended up here after WW2.

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Snap almost

Where will it all end?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...iled-for-stabbing-10-year-old-Afghan-boy.html

A lot of "casting the first stone" going on everywhere, the above doesn't justify yesterday, like yesterday wouldn't justify any attacks on unconnected Muslims.

lordsummerisle said:

From what I saw of the EDL last night on the news they looked anything other than angry and upset, they looked gloriously happy having a beer and the chance to beat up some Muslims.

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I don t think could beat an egg to be fair

lordsummerisle said:

Where will it all end?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...iled-for-stabbing-10-year-old-Afghan-boy.html

A lot of "casting the first stone" going on everywhere, the above doesn't justify yesterday, like yesterday wouldn't justify any attacks on unconnected Muslims.

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They shouldn't even be there.I d rather any resources were used to protect our country rather than stirring up more hatred

Rich said:

British or a direct result of poor immigration control? They are first generation brits, their parents are Nigerian (I think) and they appear to be proud of their heritage. Although I accept BRITAIN is and always has been quite a diverse society, going right back to Viking invasions and Roman invasions. I think that we need to stop now, a brit is essentially a white/black christian/atheist person. Sikh, Muslim, Jew, Bhuddist and other religions are not British religions. In Britain people are Christian hence Church of England. Whilst a person is of foreign descent practicing a religion that is more suitable for their home countries and not embracing BRITISH culture how can they ever claim to be BRITISH? British people do not eat Halal meet, pray to allah 5 times a day, wear the 5 K's. Brits wear helmets when riding motorcycles because their Turbans are not in the way. Until BRITISH values are totally acepted by people of foreign descent they will never class themselves as british or be classed as such. Mohammed (the most popular boys name in the UK) is not British.

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I have no problem with people having their own culture, religion, traditions. I embrace it. I just don t embrace it when hatred of my culture is practiced on my doorstep

Rich said:

I think that we need to stop now, a brit is essentially a white/black christian/atheist person. Sikh, Muslim, Jew, Bhuddist and other religions are not British religions. In Britain people are Christian hence Church of England. Whilst a person is of foreign descent practicing a religion that is more suitable for their home countries and not embracing BRITISH culture how can they ever claim to be BRITISH? British people do not eat Halal meet, pray to allah 5 times a day, wear the 5 K's. Brits wear helmets when riding motorcycles because their Turbans are not in the way. Until BRITISH values are totally acepted by people of foreign descent they will never class themselves as british or be classed as such. Mohammed (the most popular boys name in the UK) is not British.

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So much cock in so few sentences.

Been named as Lee Rigby. Father to a 2 year old son. I think, if it's possible, that makes it even more sad.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:

Snap almost

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Your a very mixed up person then?

Appears this guy was bringing attention to himself with Choudray and the Luton set as far back as 2007.

Leaders are too weak. Happy to flex their muscles abroad and sacrifice our young people but not protect our own country

JHarding1987 said:

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I read most of your posts & like many others found your messages/responses distasteful in their timing. You came across as anti-British almost. I'm not the only one who thinks your full of shit. I know what my country did during British Empire, but we weren't as Barbaric as The Germans in WW2. You saying reap what you sow, well I don't see that with Germany, no debt or rashioning after the war, now almost taking over Europe again, whereas we only recently paid off our WW2 debt. We certainly never carried out atrocities like 911 or today.

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How are they distasteful? Because they are facts?

1) This is an isolated case, yet, a whole group of society cold face a backlash
2) Extremism has spread in the last 20 odd years primarily because of Western intervention in the Middle East, where innocent children and women are being killed, we can ignore it, but it is true, this no doubt has left the Muslim communities in the UK and abroad more vulnerable to take in extremist views, CCFC92 alluded to the crusades, a 1000 years (more than that actually, depends what crusade you mean) worth of history doesn't account for that extent of extremism (although it is still in a very small minority)
3) I bet you're monarchist because it preserves 'British national identity', that's wrong, the Civil War, the NHS and Industrial Revolution and to some extent the empire is what I identify with being 'British', if there were ever a definition.
4) Nationalism as a concept is one I don't agree with, because all humans come from Earth, that's my nationality, Britain, in the bigger picture (as in the Earth), is like Coventry in the UK (probably didn't explain that well but oh we'll). Having National Identity is not a bad thing, BUT, when Nationalism becomes 'my country is better than yours', there's the problem and that easily happens with nationalism.
5) although not no where near the extent of the Axis powers, but, you do know the Allies did commit war crimes as well? The reason WW2 fucked us over financially is because we couldn't afford war, so loaned money of the USA, whereas Germany had been running on a war economy in the build up to 1939 and was somewhat ready for in 1939 (suggested they wanted war in 1941-42ish). On the holocaust, the international community bears some responsibility (before you overreact, obviously not on the same extent as Hitler or the SS etc.) for it because we called the Evian Conference (which was a called because of concerns over treatment of Jews in Germany) yet all the countries rejected taking the Jews and later on, the plan to deport Jews to Palestine was rejected by Britian (because of religious unrest) and there's more.
6) How do you define 'Britishness' and therefore, how am I anti-British? A sweeping claim that has no weight for it whatsoever.

ccfc92 said:

Personally I like the edl, they mainly protest against us being treated as 2nd class citizens. Only the odd few take it too far

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Why on earth do you 'like them', there're a disgrace! They're a Islamophobic group, they deliberately have their rallies in Muslim communities to try and cause trouble, and all they will do is push young Muslims to extremism.

So I take it your are on the far-right of the political spectrum, that's what the EDL is a far-right movement.

SkyBlue_Taylor said:

Why on earth do you 'like them', there're a disgrace! They're a Islamophobic group, they deliberately have their rallies in Muslim communities to try and cause trouble, and all they will do is push young Muslims to extremism.

So I take it your are on the far-right of the political spectrum, that's what the EDL is a far-right movement.

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The extremism already exists -- it is nothing to do with the EDL. Both are identical - anarchist movements who hold no values and whose purpose is to reap terror and anarchy. Both believe in anti-democratic actions and societies. They have a lot more in common with each other than differences.

Nick said:

The secret service s should make these people disappear as soon as they come into their radar and there is proof of radicalism

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That would be going against Human Rights, and we could see a lot of people 'disappear' without real evidence and I don't want Britain to become a police the thank you very much.

SkyBlue_Taylor said:

Of course it exists, I wasn't saying it doesn't, I said it'll push young Muslims to extremism, therefore it'll only intensify the problem!

I don't get why you've brought anarchism into it, it's irrelevant. But I may as well answer you anyway - read Noam Chomsky's work, proposes use of direct democracy, which is 'true democracy' in communities, so I don't know where you've got from, ignorance?

Since you seem to be a champion of true democracy, I guess you'd happily concede that the UK isn't really a true democracy, but rather a 'parliamentary dictatorship', since we have no codified constitution, no elected Head of State, no elected 2nd chamber, and the whip system makes the Commons 'dictatorial' - you know the coalition hasn't been defeated in the Commons yet!? Where's the check on Government!?

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Hilarious stuff coming from the "political historian" who couldn't even name the Labour Prime Minister in 1979.

Grendel said:

Hilarious stuff coming from the "political historian" who couldn't even name the Labour Prime Minister in 1979.

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Political historian? Bigging me up a bit, I'm an A-level student, I know what I'm taught.

Dodging the real questions posed - again.

SkyBlue_Taylor said:

Political historian? Bigging me up a bit, I'm an A-level student, I know what I'm taught.

Dodging the real questions posed - again.

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You clearly missed the inverted commas

Grendel said:

You clearly missed the inverted commas

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Just answer this:

Grendel said:

The extremism already exists -- it is nothing to do with the EDL. Both are identical - anarchist movements who hold no values and whose purpose is to reap terror and anarchy. Both believe in anti-democratic actions and societies. They have a lot more in common with each other than differences.

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Of course it exists, I wasn't saying it doesn't, I said it'll push young Muslims to extremism, therefore it'll only intensify the problem!

I don't get why you've brought anarchism into it, it's irrelevant. But I may as well answer you anyway - read Noam Chomsky's work, proposes use of direct democracy, which is 'true democracy' in communities, so I don't know where you've got from, ignorance?

Since you seem to be a champion of true democracy, I guess you'd happily concede that the UK isn't really a true democracy, but rather a 'parliamentary dictatorship', since we have no codified constitution, no elected Head of State, no elected 2nd chamber, and the whip system makes the Commons 'dictatorial' - you know the coalition hasn't been defeated in the Commons yet!? Where's the check on Government!?

SkyBlue_Taylor said:

Why on earth do you 'like them', there're a disgrace! They're a Islamophobic group, they deliberately have their rallies in Muslim communities to try and cause trouble, and all they will do is push young Muslims to extremism.

So I take it your are on the far-right of the political spectrum, that's what the EDL is a far-right movement.

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I'm far from their biggest fans but the group was borne out of Islamic extremism and not Islamaphobia as you put it.

Whether that is your perception, or the perception you are fed through the media, is a totally different thing.

I think you are too hung up on this quest to show everyone that you are the most liberal, noble, left wing person in the world without having the balance to look at both sides objectively, you seem to want to pigeon hole everyone into either right wing or left wing when there are many of us who have persuasions from both sides of the political compass.

In fact I'm beginning to think that you would make a very good politician. And that is in no way a compliment.

Sad sad situation. Prayers and thoughts for the young man and his family and friends. As it is a day or so after there is an excellent perceptive article if you google 'scriptonite daily' entitled 'Woolwich and terror'. It is where my mind is at. Two stories to realise how Muslim and immigration really are red herrings and the evil nature lying under the surface of many if not all human beings if given a set of circumstances that thankfully most of us will never experience! Read the case of Daniel crook who stabbed a 10 year old afghan boy or the case of 75 year old Mohammed Saleem butchered by a machete on his doorstep in Birmingham a few weeks ago as evidence. Jesus was right. Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Even the .......... Replace this for anyone who you dislike or hate, even the ..... Love their friends. Christianity lived for real is very counter culture

SkyBlue_Taylor said:

That would be going against Human Rights, and we could see a lot of people 'disappear' without real evidence and I don't want Britain to become a police the thank you very much.

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f##k human rights, only seems to work if you murder 400 people or when another country wants to question somebody on terror charges. never do you hear on the news of innocent people benefitting from human rights

completley agree with nick, if found get rid

Nick said:

The secret service s should make these people disappear as soon as they come into their radar and there is proof of radicalism

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You realise that you're advocating a police state and cessation to freedom of speech, right? As any American hick would say, that be lettin' the terrorists win.