Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by singers_pore, Sep 6, 2017.
I rest my case.
Meanwhile at the Labour party conference the concept of inclusion hits the buffers.
from a fringe Marxist stand. Meanwhile an NHS doctor tells the conference that people will die on trolleys in corridors this winter because of what the tories have done to the NHS. I know which one gives me the more cause for concern.
What have the Tories done to the NHS? I don't see a decline in spend.
and I thought Jezza and McDonnell were Marxist?
The Marx Brothers: Jeremy Corbyn joins John McDonnell in praising Communist icon's work
doesn't mean there hasn't been a reduction. Or that money that is being spent has been spent in the wrong areas.
And before you say it, I agree the decline started with blair and his mob and the PFI initiatives.
so you think they were involved in a fringe stand at the conference?
Same as the young conservatives who got caught the other week talking about culling poor people - doesn't mean the rantings of a few idiots are the same views held by the whole party.
just like the tweet the other day from one of the Conservative associations the other day detailing how bad things were in Britain in 1973, (they were in power in 1973).
We can all find tweets and memes that fit an agenda but to me it's petty and doesn't really prove anything more meaningful.
Yes it was bad in 1973, the NUM had brought the country to its knees and forced electricity rationing and a shorter working week on everyone to get their pay rise, bastards.
BBC ON THIS DAY | 16 | 1972: Miners' strike turns off the lights
It was bad. The marxists were trying to destroy the country with strikes and rationing electricity. Benn and the Marxist militia that Corbyn and McDonnell support were trying to bring down the elected government
Some things never change. This is different. Abbott tries to make political gain out of the dead and maimed and fails spectacularly.
and the tories aren't trying to destroy the country for everyone but the privileged few now? Ok then.
that's not what the tweet said.
The Tories have never cut welfare spending, never cut NHS funding and have offered tax breaks to lower earners.
It's juvenile sound bytes from you. Who are the priveleged few anyway? The middle classes aren't and are far far better off than under a Corbyn led admimistration.
we are experiencing wage contraction and wealth transfer that is crippling working people who we are propping up with benefits to subsidise companies profits.
The safety net of the welfare state is being dismantled and sooner or late we are going to end up in some sort of TTIP type trading deal which will affect everything from the NHS to food safety and make lots of money for the neo liberal elite and the expense of every one else.
That's not a soundbyte, that's reality.
Tough, I'd rather speak the truth as I see it.
No it's just untruths I'm afraid. The Tories have been hopelessly weak at tackling the bloated welfare state and targeting NHS spending at the people who require it.
A true Tory government would brave issues and get people out the state systems of healthcare and education by offering tax breaks so the overall burden is reduced. Australia is anything but "Neo liberal" (whatever that even means) but takes this approach with success.
There is a mass of contradiction here from the likes of you, sick boy Dave etc anyway. Ok the one hand you abhore wage contrition yet allow feeedom of access for European citizens that cause the contrition in the first place and claim businesses would be out of business without such contrition.
even if it's missing the point totally - OK carry on!
62% of bankcruptcies in USA are down to people who can't pay their medical bills. Is that the route you want to go down?
An our welfare bill isn't bloated, it's about average compared to other western countries, that's a myth perpetrated by the right wing press.
And we can claim for EU citizens treated by the NHS from their own health authorities - we don't actually claim what we can, anyone would thing there was an agenda for the NHS to fail!
You haven't read what I said have you? As for bloated welfare consider this? How much do you think the NHS support benefit claimants on drugs? Let's start with paracetamol - £89 million a year
Again, many benefit claimants are working people. We wouldn't need to subsidise them if they had liveable
But we wouldn't need to support claimants if they had a liveable wage. We are subsidising company profits, can that be right?
I did misread your comments about EU citizens being responsible to wage contraction but I don't agree that it is solely or mainly responsible though I think it would be naive to think it hasn't had some affect.
Bump on the original thread topic, as I suggested at the time, total bollocks:
How smearing a student’s reputation was irresistible for the media | Nick Cohen
I said that posts ago, but everyone preferred to try and talk about other bad bollocks, rather than acknowledge the scaremongering and politics of fear that this was playing on.
As you're a bit simple you probably meant unadjusted spending hasn't decreased. As you're a bit simple, you probably don't understand that this means fuck all. Demand is rising (in part because of decisions around social care funding, in part due to people living longer), population is increasing, inflation happens, these things added together means the NHS needs more money to stand still.
The fact that it's being funded below where it should be and below historic increases isn't in question.
The institute of fiscal studies confirms Heath spend is increasing in real terms which is what I stated .
The graphs you are showing show other than the last one are irrelevant and the last one confirms the point. Projected requirements show a far more grown up discussion than the likes of you are capable of is required and is irrelevant to the point.
The largest spend occurred in the Brown Blair years and much of this was wasted resource and encouraged inefficiency - £11 billion alone was wasted on a failed IT infrastructure. You equate spending to efficient delivery which often doesn't correlate old chap.
Check the Fiscal Studies report on the subject and then come back to me.
As for simple that's funny from someone who claimed food had increased in price by 20% in a year and mixed up his euros and pounds when (as always) failing abysmally to make the point correctly and became as usual a laughing stock.
Please don't tell me you taught economics - PE was it?
That article is notable for its lack of evidence and is clearly very one sided. It just assumes the woman's version is fact. Both of these characters seem very shady and the university should have immediately set the record straight if in fact it was not investigating someone for mocking ISIS.
I thought it had done.
No, it didn't.
It did later, but it appears a number of people rushed to believe well... a pile of bollocks without checking anything.
That's what the youth of today seem to do all the time - along with a few older heads as well.
Are you describing yourself and this Grauniad article? If the original story was such toss then maybe MsAllman should sue The Times.
You missed my posts a week ago. tbf, hardly surprising when this ended up a 'yeah, but...' thread...
Always amazed how quick people are condemn though. No wonder the world's fucked.
DAESH pretty much kicked out of Iraq.
Iraq 'retakes' IS stronghold of Hawija
Map yet to be updated but the scum only hold onto about 12 towns along the Euphrates that straddle the Iraq & Syrian border.
News from war on ISIS in English from Iraq, Syria - Deir ez-Zur operation, Raqqa operation - isis.liveuamap.com
I should think once they've mopped up their rear areas both armies will start taking all the towns on the Euphrates between the front line and Al-Qa'im (town) - Wikipedia.
NHS Trusts have for years, well before 2010, been engaged in Cost Improvement Programmes. The NHS has been assessed as being one of the most efficient systems in the world.
The Tories can say they've increased spending on the NHS of course, but crucially they haven't gone anywhere near to increasing funding in line with demand, hence the Trust deficits. It also doesn't tell you what they've spent this increased money on.
The Tories with their 'cut everything at all costs' are actually costing the health service more money; One of their acts under the coalition was the Lansley reforms to the NHS which have added significant administrative costs in commissioning and forcing competition where it isn't needed. They have also reduced the number of nursing bursaries meaning Trusts are having to use expensive agencies. They've frozen (or real terms cut) pay so nurses in places like London are being priced out of working there again forcing Trusts to use agencies.
The Tory record on the NHS is shocking. New Labour did some good stuff but their embrace of PFI is / was a disaster.
That's the key. Look how much payments to agencies for staff to cover shortages have increased. That's the kind of place the money is going.
Labour Party waste was infinitely worse
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