Match Thread Norwich City - Coventry City Match Thread - Saturday 4th Jan (29 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

When you're facing almost certain relegation to League Two you attract a different quality of candidate to when you've just finished in the top half of the Championship for the last few seasons.

Robins was probably about the best candidate we could have attracted at the time (as was proven). Lampard was absolutely not the best possible candidate this time round.

The first paragraph is completely unrelated to the point that a manager being out of work for a year means nothing.

 

---

[Jamesimus]

When you're facing almost certain relegation to League Two you attract a different quality of candidate to when you've just finished in the top half of the Championship for the last few seasons.

Robins was probably about the best candidate we could have attracted at the time. Lampard was absolutely not the best possible candidate this time round.

He’s here now though. So let’s see how it plays out. Give him a chance.

I didn’t want him either fwiw.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s almost as if we have a recent good track record for giving managers time and patience to implement their own ideas and strategies, with their own tactics etc…

I didn’t want Robins sacked. Anyone calling for Lampards head or judging if he’s the right man for the job at this stage is either a clairvoyant or foolish. He may not be, but I’d be giving him until the end of the season.

Almost certainly foolish but this is all getting very Brexit. “This is a terrible idea” “yeah well we’re going to do it” “it’s going terribly” “You don’t believe in the project! Give it time! You never know!”

It’s the argument of fools and hope quite frankly.

 

[Sick Boy]

Almost certainly foolish but this is all getting very Brexit. “This is a terrible idea” “yeah well we’re going to do it” “it’s going terribly” “You don’t believe in the project! Give it time! You never know!”

It’s the argument of fools and hope quite frankly.

Oh dear.

 

[Jamesimus]

Almost certainly foolish but this is all getting very Brexit. “This is a terrible idea” “yeah well we’re going to do it” “it’s going terribly” “You don’t believe in the project! Give it time! You never know!”

It’s the argument of fools and hope quite frankly.

You could have argued the same about Robins appointment at the time.

Frank Lampards tenures in football have so far been quite mixed, so no one knows how it’s going to play out. He will be learning on the job as well. He might be shit. But it’s definitely too early to say.

I *obviously* hope he’s not shit. Some posters on here I’m not sure.

Brexit was always going to be a disaster.

 

[shmmeee]

You could have argued the same about Robins appointment at the time.

Frank Lampards tenures in football have so far been quite mixed, so no one knows how it’s going to play out. He will be learning on the job as well. He might be shit. But it’s definitely too early to say.

Brexit was always going to be a disaster.

That’s my point. Lampard was always going to be a disaster. Even his most ardent supporters are now just saying “maybe it’ll get better”.

By this point in robins second tenure we’d won silverware so to say it’s the same is frankly ridiculous. He’d already given us hope.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Would much rather have got Steve Cooper. Far better pedigree.

Which chances exactly?

Be honest we were the biggest club by miles that actually wanted him. Managers don’t turn down jobs at the start of their career unless they’re a huge step backwards.

He was managing in the PL at the top, then at the bottom, now he’s at a lower championship club. Not exactly a trajectory of success.

Come on man. When your defence is “give him more time and a £10m player and who would you want name names!” It’s a defence about as solid as the one he puts out each week.

It’s quite funny you shooting down his career. Let’s recap; Derby getting to the playoff final, UCL qualification at Chelsea, being top the next Xmas before getting sacked after barren run, managing Everton and keeping them up. A marginally less win % than Dyche…

… Your alternative? “That Scandinavian” whose name you couldn’t even be arsed to remember. Who didn’t apply for the job or you even manage in England.

I’m not enamoured by Lampard replacing Robins. I felt Robins needed this window and the next to address the areas of need. Going into the season those gaps were evident, the midfield, the defence and lack of experience.

Therefore, if we’re being consistent, Lampard needs that same opportunity because the squad as a whole needs improving. £45m is a lot of money but our starting point was miles behind the likes of Norwich, Boro, WBA, Luton, Hull and Stoke who were all Prem teams or thereabouts (bar Luton) as we languished in L1/L2.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s quite funny you shooting down his career. Let’s recap; Derby getting to the playoff final, UCL qualification at Chelsea, being top the next Xmas before getting sacked after barren run, managing Everton and keeping them up. A marginally less win % than Dyche…

… Your alternative? “That Scandinavian” whose name you couldn’t even be arsed to remember. Who didn’t apply for the job or you even manage in England.

I’m not enamoured by Lampard replacing Robins. I felt Robins needed this window and the next to address the areas of need. Going into the season those gaps were evident, the midfield, the defence and lack of experience.

Therefore, if we’re being consistent, Lampard needs that same opportunity because the squad as a whole needs improving. £45m is a lot of money but our starting point was miles behind the likes of Norwich, Boro, WBA, Luton, Hull and Stoke who were all Prem teams or thereabouts (bar Luton) as we languished in L1/L2.

If we’re being consistent it’s been nine games of shit and at this point in the Robins only tenure this place was full of polls about whether we should sack him. And robins had seven years of unprecedented success behind him.

 

[Cally Fedora]

It’s ridiculous to judge Lampard this early, ridiculous. Patently someone else’s badly constructed squad.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

If we’re being consistent it’s been nine games of shit and at this point in the Robins only tenure this place was full of polls about whether we should sack him. And robins had seven years of unprecedented success behind him.

No it wasn’t though. The people calling for MR to be sacked looked at his record at the end of last season. So it was more accurately the last 20-30 games sample people were starting to get fed up.

 

[shmmeee]

No it wasn’t though. The people calling for MR to be sacked looked at his record at the end of last season. So it was more accurately the last 20-30 games sample people were starting to get fed up.

But Viveash didn’t go until the summer. Robins didn’t have “his squad” and “his team” either.

 

[covcity4life]

3 wins
3 draws
3 losses

Very close to more wins too should be noted

If that's while we are total shite it bodes well for the future no?

 

[Jamesimus]

That’s my point. Lampard was always going to be a disaster. Even his most ardent supporters are now just saying “maybe it’ll get better”.

By this point in robins second tenure we’d won silverware so to say it’s the same is frankly ridiculous. He’d already given us hope.

Maybe it will get better? I’m actually saying “he’s only just bloody started”, in case you haven’t noticed!

As I’ve said, his previous tenures have been a mixed bag so it wasn’t “always going to be a disaster.”

What silverware could Lampard have won at this point? Strange comparison to make!

Like you, I too would have preferred a Scandinavian (or Italian!) manager that you haven’t heard off, that wears polo necks and enjoys modern art. But we got Fat Frank so I’ll have to give the fat Tory a chance before throwing him under the bus.

 

[David O'Day]

It’s ridiculous to judge Lampard this early, ridiculous. Patently someone else’s badly constructed squad.

people here are ridiculous to be fair

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

But Viveash didn’t go until the summer. Robins didn’t have “his squad” and “his team” either.

There’s no point arguing with me about sacking Robins because I didn’t agree with it.

Robins had 3 windows to build the team we had and insisted on some players that are considered bad signings. He had plenty of backing and shaped the coaching structure and recruitment.

My personal view is that I want to see how Lampard shapes recruitment this Jan. Secondly, how we actually perform with a full strength team and after he’s had backing in the transfer market. That’s what I’d expect for any manager.

You’d made your mind up before we hired Lampard and you’re not-so-secretly enjoying piping up whenever we lose.

 

[covcity4life]

 

[shmmeee]

Maybe it will get better? I’m actually saying “he’s only just bloody started”, in case you haven’t noticed!

As I’ve said, his previous tenures have been a mixed bag so it wasn’t “always going to be a disaster.”

What silverware could Lampard have won at this point? Strange comparison to make!

Like you, I too would have preferred a Scandinavian (or Italian!) manager that you haven’t heard off, that wears polo necks and enjoys modern art. But we got Fat Frank so I’ll have to give the fat Tory a chance before throwing him under the bus.

His previous tenures have all been the same actually. Ignoring the caretaker Chelsea role cos I think that’s fair (though it’s another data point for Lampard being unable to motivate unmotivated players and not even bothering trying)

Derby: spent a lot, culture issues, just about did what’s expected.

Chelsea: spent a lot when he could, culture issues, just about did what’s expected (they finished 3rd before and after him)

Everton: just about did what’s expected.

He has zero record of improving clubs beyond where they were heading, a history of relying on one or two overpowered players at this level, spending a lot to get a little, and having a poor culture in the squad.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Maybe it will get better? I’m actually saying “he’s only just bloody started”, in case you haven’t noticed!

As I’ve said, his previous tenures have been a mixed bag so it wasn’t “always going to be a disaster.”

What silverware could Lampard have won at this point? Strange comparison to make!

Like you, I too would have preferred a Scandinavian (or Italian!) manager that you haven’t heard off, that wears polo necks and enjoys modern art. But we got Fat Frank so I’ll have to give the fat Tory a chance before throwing him under the bus.

I’d really like us to hire ‘the next Pep Guardiola’ as our next manager after Lampard leads us to the promised land and goes back to Chelsea…

 

[shmmeee]

There’s no point arguing with me about sacking Robins because I didn’t agree with it.

Robins had 3 windows to build the team we had and insisted on some players that are considered bad signings. He had plenty of backing and shaped the coaching structure and recruitment.

My personal view is that I want to see how Lampard shapes recruitment this Jan. Secondly, how we actually perform with a full strength team and after he’s had backing in the transfer market. That’s what I’d expect for any manager.

You’d made your mind up before we hired Lampard and you’re not-so-secretly enjoying piping up whenever we lose.

Fuck off. I don’t enjoy us losing. That’s exactly why I want a new manager. You’re happy with us losing as long as you’re not proven wrong on the internet.

 

[Jamesimus]

His previous tenures have all been the same actually. Ignoring the caretaker Chelsea role cos I think that’s fair (though it’s another data point for Lampard being unable to motivate unmotivated players and not even bothering trying)

Derby: spent a lot, culture issues, just about did what’s expected.

Chelsea: spent a lot when he could, culture issues, just about did what’s expected (they finished 3rd before and after him)

Everton: just about did what’s expected.

He has zero record of improving clubs beyond where they were heading, a history of relying on one or two overpowered players at this level, spending a lot to get a little, and having a poor culture in the squad.

I’m guessing it was Kim Hellberg you wanted? That was my choice too.

 

[shmmeee]

I’m guessing it was Kim Hellberg you wanted? That was my choice too.

Im not a football chairman. “Who would you have had” is the last desperate resort of people with zero arguments.

I’ll leave it now (cheers from the audience), but if the best people can come up with it “I know he’s been shit but maybe he’ll randomly stop being shit” and “well name someone better, no not him, no not him either, no I disagree there is anyone better on the planet” then I’ve been told all I need about the strength of argument

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Fuck off. I don’t enjoy us losing. That’s exactly why I want a new manager. You’re happy with us losing as long as you’re not proven wrong on the internet.

When was the last time we beat Norwich or WBA? You’d have to go back a few managers if that’s your benchmark…

Before Lampard took over, our record against Cardiff, Norwich, Hull, WBA and Swansea was 3 wins in 40 games. Just over half his games have been against our bogey teams in his 9 game tenure.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

There’s no point arguing with me about sacking Robins because I didn’t agree with it.

Robins had 3 windows to build the team we had and insisted on some players that are considered bad signings. He had plenty of backing and shaped the coaching structure and recruitment.

My personal view is that I want to see how Lampard shapes recruitment this Jan. Secondly, how we actually perform with a full strength team and after he’s had backing in the transfer market. That’s what I’d expect for any manager.

You’d made your mind up before we hired Lampard and you’re not-so-secretly enjoying piping up whenever we lose.

My own view is that Robins should have been given his new assistant manager, got some experience on the field, and then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I don’t believe the players are anywhere near as bad as people are making out, but something is clearly rotten in there. Now Lampard is in we have to give him time or we’re just back on the merry go round spunking millions on compensation, but its hard to disagree that we’ve seen next to nothing in terms of developing, moving the right way, any kind of tactical changes, or even in the visible attitude of the players. Big, big window for Frank coming up.

And if those views mean I “have an agenda” then so be it

 

[Gint11]

When was the last time we beat Norwich or WBA? You’d have to go back a few managers if that’s your benchmark…

Before Lampard took over, our record against Cardiff, Norwich, Hull, WBA and Swansea was 3 wins in 40 games. Just over half his games have been against our bogey teams in his 9 game tenure.

Feels like every team is becoming a bogey team for us.

 

[shmmeee]

When was the last time we beat Norwich or WBA? You’d have to go back a few managers if that’s your benchmark…

Before Lampard took over, our record against Cardiff, Norwich, Hull, WBA and Swansea was 3 wins in 40 games. Just over half his games have been against our bogey teams in his 9 game tenure.

Last one cos is said I’d leave it. But again the entire point of a new manager is they do better. If the best you’ve got is “he’s doing the same as the guy we just sacked” then you’ve got nothing.

 

[Jamesimus]

Im not a football chairman. “Who would you have had” is the last desperate resort of people with zero arguments.

I’ll leave it now (cheers from the audience), but if the best people can come up with it “I know he’s been shit but maybe he’ll randomly stop being shit” and “well name someone better, no not him, no not him either, no I disagree there is anyone better on the planet” then I’ve been told all I need about the strength of argument

Haha I wasn’t arguing there, just interested.

You may well in time be right, but you haven’t given it enough time yet

 

[Jamesimus]

My own view is that Robins should have been given his new assistant manager, got some experience on the field, and then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I don’t believe the players are anywhere near as bad as people are making out, but something is clearly rotten in there. Now Lampard is in we have to give him time or we’re just back on the merry go round spunking millions on compensation, but its hard to disagree that we’ve seen next to nothing in terms of developing, moving the right way, any kind of tactical changes, or even in the visible attitude of the players. Big, big window for Frank coming up.

And if those views mean I “have an agenda” then so be it

That’s a completely reasonable view.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Feels like every team is becoming a bogey team for us.

Yep, at least last season we beat just about all the bottom half teams. This season we’re just easy to score against and that’s going to take more than a month for any manager to fix.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

My own view is that Robins should have been given his new assistant manager, got some experience on the field, and then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I don’t believe the players are anywhere near as bad as people are making out, but something is clearly rotten in there. Now Lampard is in we have to give him time or we’re just back on the merry go round spunking millions on compensation, but its hard to disagree that we’ve seen next to nothing in terms of developing, moving the right way, any kind of tactical changes, or even in the visible attitude of the players. Big, big window for Frank coming up.

And if those views mean I “have an agenda” then so be it

We’ll see how he gets on at Stoke now but as much as I revere Robins, he’s just blundered into getting rid of AV (and what followed) which put doubts in King’s mind.

It’s been a month, plenty of games so limited time of the training pitch with players. As you say, improvement needed and this window is a big one to reverse the fortunes of the season.

 

[shmmeee]

Haha I wasn’t arguing there, just interested.

You may well in time be right, but you haven’t given it enough time yet

I went a googling and it was Horneland but he just got a new job.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Last one cos is said I’d leave it. But again the entire point of a new manager is they do better. If the best you’ve got is “he’s doing the same as the guy we just sacked” then you’ve got nothing.

If that’s your benchmark for a manager, you’ll be going through a lot of managers. They have been better than us the entire time I’ve been supporting football.

You habitually write off people you don’t like, perhaps try to have a bit of patience for once. It’ll do you good mate and you may actually enjoy going to the games…

 

[Ring Of Steel]

We’ll see how he gets on at Stoke now but as much as I revere Robins, he’s just blundered into getting rid of AV (and what followed) which put doubts in King’s mind.

It’s been a month, plenty of games so limited time of the training pitch with players. As you say, improvement needed and this window is a big one to reverse the fortunes of the season.

don’t disagree.

I guess I’m just jumpy because we’ve literally seen nothing from Lampard so far, and I have a nagging feeling of “what the fuck have we gone and done here”. We’ll see though, he must have a few things lined up- 8 games might not be enough to turn things around, but it is definitely long enough to get a good look at what he’s working with.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

3 wins
3 draws
3 losses

Very close to more wins too should be noted

If that's while we are total shite it bodes well for the future no?

Not really

 

[covcity4life]

Not really

Well yeh it does because average would be more draws less losses

And good would be more wins and less losses

You know I'm right here lol

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

don’t disagree.

I guess I’m just jumpy because we’ve literally seen nothing from Lampard so far, and I have a nagging feeling of “what the fuck have we gone and done here”. We’ll see though, he must have a few things lined up- 8 games might not be enough to turn things around, but it is definitely long enough to get a good look at what he’s working with.

8 games in most parts of the season is 7-8 weeks. Which is double the time you’d have with players to instil your methods and tactics. It takes a good 3 months, if not more.

Around Xmas, there’s barely any contact time with the players on the training pitch because it’s game-recover-repeat. December 23rd to yesterday was 15 days and we’ve played 5 games.

Again, you can’t have your best players out and still judge his tenure fairly. Haji Wright has been injured for 11 games and is still our top goal scorer by 3-4 goals.