NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Always seems to be the righties that make it personal...
Oh Jeremy Corbyn (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter torchomatic
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
no. Because he wanted to see the evidence you daft twat. He wanted a proper enquiry which the statement is calling for and for Russian cooperation.
If they're found guilty or don't comply then we will have international backing for any sanctions which will be more effective than Gavin Williamson telling them to shut up and go away.
Remember when your bible the Daily Mail called Corbyn a traitor for not buying the WMD bollocks, bet you were against him then weren't you?
BackRoomRummermill
Well-Known Member
BackRoomRummermill
Well-Known Member
What evidence does he need that the Germans, French ,US or UK need to see that he does not believe.
Ps I don’t read any newspapers and have my own mind.
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
the evidence that would be presented to the OPCW who deal with this type of incident in accordance with international convention as I stated last night as No 10 has stated today.
We have the support of the other countries because we are following procedure and they are happy to issue a joint statement because we are following due process.
If it's as clear cut as it appears then Russian guilt will soon be established and measures can be taken.
You didn't answer my question about Corbyn and the Iraq war, were you part of the witch hunt?
BackRoomRummermill
Well-Known Member
For goodness sake you do understand as I type this Russia will be covering everything up . The fact remains apart from all the bluff and bluster JC and his aide did not point any direct finger at Russia , he has his mouth shut today as he has himself realised his mistake . The man has no qualities to drive pedalos let alone run a country . He made a massive miscalculation that Teresa May could be exposed alone but Infact the opposite has happened and everyone behind her apart from morons like JC and his unwashed followers.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
you don't point fingers prior to an enquiry, that's why it's called an enquiry not a witch hunt.
And whether Corbyn is fit or not to run the country isn't the issue here, it's how we handle a potentially serious international incident.
Still not responded regarding the Iraq war, but don't worry, you've given me the answer.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
why is May fist bumping people during a visit to Salisbury?
This is the scene of a serious incident and a potential treble murder for fucks sake.
This is the scene of a serious incident and a potential treble murder for fucks sake.
BackRoomRummermill
Well-Known Member
Well what do you want me to say ref Iraq war ? I was actually there and received a medal for it .
All I know we were practising for that war in 2001 in Saif saria 2 but it was a labour government that took us there . Is JC not Labour ?
Stop trying to move this on, Corbyn should have as I said in my first response got behind the UK , Even the SNP did which is some achievement I can tell you . Mr CND made a monumental looney leftie response without consulting some good old fashioned unionised but patriotic Labour MP ‘s . He will be gone soon and good riddance , a shame for the good honest hard working labour supporters that have had to put up with the baffling fool riding on back of Brexit back lash and a Glastonbury appearance.
All I know we were practising for that war in 2001 in Saif saria 2 but it was a labour government that took us there . Is JC not Labour ?
Stop trying to move this on, Corbyn should have as I said in my first response got behind the UK , Even the SNP did which is some achievement I can tell you . Mr CND made a monumental looney leftie response without consulting some good old fashioned unionised but patriotic Labour MP ‘s . He will be gone soon and good riddance , a shame for the good honest hard working labour supporters that have had to put up with the baffling fool riding on back of Brexit back lash and a Glastonbury appearance.
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I asked if you joined the witch hunt when he was called a traitor for questioning the WMD bullshit. I'm well aware what party Blair belonged to, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
BackRoomRummermill
Well-Known Member
Again why are you trying to move the subject ...
I am not interested in anything he did ref Iraq war .
I am interested and need a reasonable reason why he still does not believe given all the tangible evidence from Porton Down which is non political party aligned and the best in the world that he cannot support the UK as a whole cross party etc and wants the Russians to have their say .
Can you explain it ? Ps I know the answer
I am not interested in anything he did ref Iraq war .
I am interested and need a reasonable reason why he still does not believe given all the tangible evidence from Porton Down which is non political party aligned and the best in the world that he cannot support the UK as a whole cross party etc and wants the Russians to have their say .
Can you explain it ? Ps I know the answer
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
You really are thick. He spoke again today - saying that it was clear there was Russian involvement, but what was needed to be clarified was if this was a rogue action, or state sponsored action.
If you think that this is an incorrect response, then it's a good thing you have nothing to do with national security.
BackRoomRummermill
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I think for all our lives it’s essential Corbyn never ever has anything to do with our national security.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry my response isn't 'let's blow shit up' enough for you.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
if you can't see the parallels between the rush to condemn Corbyn then and the rush to condemn him now then I give up.
And I've actually answered your question more than once, you're just not capable of grasping it.
dancers lance
Well-Known Member
Clint, speaking as a person with no political affiliation at all, there does seem to be an almost cultish like acceptance amongst his followers who will not question him? everything he says is right and beyond question, he can't possibly be wrong? has he moved from the political to the metaphysical?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
If people had have listened to the likes of Charles Kennedy, Robin Cook and Corbyn instead of ridiculing them when the Iraq invasion was being promoted the world would probably not be in half the mess it is now.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Some, maybe... the same as some will unquestioningly accept anything the righties say.
Doesn't help for a balanced debate when the character assassinations start however, that'll just back people into entrenched positions and have them defend him come what may. He's not perfect (as indeed, nobody is bar me) but what failings his policies do have will get lost among the ludicrous.
dancers lance
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
there is definitely some sort of cult around Corbyn, the Glastonbury appearance, chanting his name, I find it ridiculous and have said so in the past, he's a politician FFS!
But there is also a more sinister cult, the anti Corbyn brigade who will try to deflect any issue away from the current, massively incompetent government and onto Corbyn, often using blatant lies , (the Czech spy bullshit for example), to do so.
I personally agree with a lot of what Corbyn says but have been very critical of his at best wishy washy, and at worse, hypocritical stance on Europe.
The difference with me is I have also been critical of high profile tories who have changed position on the back of personal political opportunity as well, whereas the usual suspects on here have given them a pass.
To get back on topic, if/when it has been officially established that the Russians are responsible for the spy poisoning Putins Oligarchs will still be allowed to wash their money through the City, they'll still be allowed to expand their London property portfolios and the tories will still take £800,000 yearly donations from them and not a word will be said, you watch.
oakey
Well-Known Member
'To get back on topic, if/when it has been officially established that the Russians are responsible for the spy poisoning Putins Oligarchs will still be allowed to wash their money through the City, they'll still be allowed to expand their London property portfolios and the tories will still take £800,000 yearly donations from them and not a word will be said, you watch.'
Yes but why connect them? Both are despicable but to connect them is to muddy the waters, which Corbyn, and many other politicians always do. It smacks of whataboutery, which puts a lot of people off debate because anyone can diverge from the real issue in hand. Corbyn is forever connecting every news story to his own hobby horses. In this case the issue is about the Russian state orchestrating a terror attack in U.K. or not.
Also, if we have to have proof of everything we never act ... and then it is often too late. That's what the intelligence services are for to establish the likely truth when proof is hard to deduce. Let's not pretend this doesn't fit the pattern of Russian actions in recent times.
Yes but why connect them? Both are despicable but to connect them is to muddy the waters, which Corbyn, and many other politicians always do. It smacks of whataboutery, which puts a lot of people off debate because anyone can diverge from the real issue in hand. Corbyn is forever connecting every news story to his own hobby horses. In this case the issue is about the Russian state orchestrating a terror attack in U.K. or not.
Also, if we have to have proof of everything we never act ... and then it is often too late. That's what the intelligence services are for to establish the likely truth when proof is hard to deduce. Let's not pretend this doesn't fit the pattern of Russian actions in recent times.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
why connect them? Because people are up in arms about this, (I'm saying wait for procedure to be followed as you are suggesting), but when Russias involvement is, as seems likely confirmed, what is May going to do?
What punitive measures will she take against putin? Expelling his Oligarchs and confiscating their assets would be the minimum I'd expect but I doubt it will happen so for all the tub thumping that's going on when push comes to shove let's see what happens and how tough she actually is.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
There is zero connection. Why expel Russian civilians as they are rich?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
what id they're linked to Putin? At least one tory donor is. You OK with that and if so what measures would you take?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Again it’s not a government official - would be an infringement to civil liberty.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Not sure one of Putins henchmen contributing to the party in government is ethical though it's not illegal seen as he has British citezenship.
so what would you recommend?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Would it? On what basis? If these are people who have been able to gain their wealth that allows them to reside in the UK through corruption in Russia and got away with it because of being close to Putin or the right people in Putins government why would it be an infringement on their civil liberties? All the government would have to do is check that full disclosure has been made on their visa and that their visa application is accurate (ie not full of lies) and if it isn’t cancel their visa. Simples. Take back control and all that nonsense. We have the means to make sure the “right” people are in the country and right to do that without trampling on peoples civil liberties. If they’ve lied or failed to give full disclosure on their application form they shouldn’t be here. The PM won’t do that though as it will prove embarrassing for her and the government when the people who shouldn’t be here end up being close to the Tories. Probably why Corbyn suggested this route while at the same time mentioning Russian donors to the Conservative party. He’s not naive, he knows upholding the law and revisiting who’s here by following proper process to the latter will embarrass the government and so does the PM, hence the phoney tough guy act.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
Jeremy Corbyn: We need to see more evidence of Russian interference in Western democracies
He has always defended Russia and Putin. And his spin doctor has had meetings with Putin.
Labour MPs tell Corbyn to sack spin chief Seumas Milne | Daily Mail Online
He has always defended Russia and Putin. And his spin doctor has had meetings with Putin.
Labour MPs tell Corbyn to sack spin chief Seumas Milne | Daily Mail Online
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
Breaking News: First Russian diplomat expelled from the UK...........
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Found Newsnight interesting tonight in that Owen Jones and two journalists from the rightwing press were pretty much in alliance on Jezza ,be that both his treatment in the media and the driven agenda down to his judgment and viewpoint to the approach taken.
They only really diverged in that even If he and they didn't see the sense in hot headed grandstanding or mealy mouthed gestures of ejecting diolomats and running a Nuclear Sub through the Baltic sea, he could or should have agreed more wholeheartedly purely for the sake of displaying unity to the outside world .
They all tbought it would be better to close down the money laundering of the dirty money washing around the capital.
Pretty strange experience, all were very critical of Newsnights graphic displaying an image of Jezza dressed with a Commie cap photoshopped outside the Kremlin wall .
The polling shows Theresa looking strong and hot, can't remembered numbers might be 50% approval of her handling and roughly even between don't knows and unsatisfactory Jezza approval 19% don't knows 43% unsatisfactory 38%.
They only really diverged in that even If he and they didn't see the sense in hot headed grandstanding or mealy mouthed gestures of ejecting diolomats and running a Nuclear Sub through the Baltic sea, he could or should have agreed more wholeheartedly purely for the sake of displaying unity to the outside world .
They all tbought it would be better to close down the money laundering of the dirty money washing around the capital.
Pretty strange experience, all were very critical of Newsnights graphic displaying an image of Jezza dressed with a Commie cap photoshopped outside the Kremlin wall .
The polling shows Theresa looking strong and hot, can't remembered numbers might be 50% approval of her handling and roughly even between don't knows and unsatisfactory Jezza approval 19% don't knows 43% unsatisfactory 38%.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
It used to amaze me the lengths some people would go to in defending Corbyn. I can't imagine what they would be like if it was a tory leader who was involved in the IRA and had been meeting with Russians for years when nothing to do with being a leader. His spin doctor.has had meetings with Putin. So after that there is no surprise that they are trying to defend him.
If they wanted to just get rid of spies that have been working against them it would be much easier to put a bullet to their head. But they use chemical weapons as a warning to others. These chemical weapons 100% come from Russia. They are very expensive to make and are very hard to make. There is no way that anyone else but the Russian government could make them. Anyone slightly against the Russian government have their every move followed. Many get murdered. Items get made up against them and shown to the public on TV. Yet I am supposed to believe that they are made by someone else. They are brought here by diplomats that have immunity from being chexked on arrival.
The whole world is corrupt. We are just pawns in their game. But most have never opened thwir eyes to what is going on.
