Pentecost celebrations

[Joe King]

No one knows what he did for the billions of years

That just proves my point! No-one knows, because he wasn't around. Never was. Never will be! There is NO SUCH THING AS GOD FFS!!!!!!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

How do you discount the opinions of millions so dismissively and with such disdain? Some are sheep but most have intellectually and spiritually come to a different conclusion to you? Doesn't it make you take a moment to look? Even just a little?

 

[Otis]

No one knows what he did for the billions of years and I think it's absolutely right that a creator could create in whatever way they wished.

I think the bible is a collection of books written in many different forms and for many different reasons.

The nature of the creation narrative in the Jewish holy book is written as a myth not literal truth and this is easily seen by scholars willing to look.

I think you are absolutely right about living by a book or living for god.

Would you read that book for me Otis id love your thoughts on it?

Also thanks for engaging in discussion on this

Which book? This McLaren fella or the bible?

Have read the bible. Read it everyday while I was going out with the girl who was an Evangelist. Tried very hard to see what she saw.

It is a beautiful book in many ways and it reads like pure poetry. Thing that I found the hardest was this girl's family telling me to focus on the 4 gospels and pretty much the 4 gospels only.

I just feel with a lot of religious people they just pick out the bits in the bible/quran etc. that suits them and their beliefs and endorses the church or organisation they are involved in.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The mclaren one. The other gospels are interesting

 

[Joe King]

 

[Otis]

Wait till I tell my daughter that unicorns don't exist. She'll be gutted.

She's already on a bad run. Her 3 favourite things in life are unicorns, Santa and freedom of information. How much worse can it possibly get?

 

[Joe King]

I always wondered why Santa was an anagram of Satan!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

http://www.brianmclaren.net/archives/books/brians-books/a-new-kind-of-c.html

 

[Joe King]

What a shit link! It doesn't even mention CCFC!

 

[Otis]

http://www.brianmclaren.net/archives/books/brians-books/a-new-kind-of-c.html

I'm happy to read anything Pete.

 

[skybluetony176]

Next weekend

As this is the moment in the church calendar when we celebrate the coming of gods spirit to the world will people be taking part in any special activity?

If not, how come Christmas and Easter are celebrated and not Pentecost?

Any thoughts?

Give it time. Card companies are always looking for fresh excuses to sell cards.

 

[Joe King]

What's a Pentecost?



About 5p down the market!

 

[Joe King]

This is a great religion Pete. You should try it!

http://www.churchofsatan.com/nine-satanic-statements.php

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Is that something that interests you genuinely houchen?

 

[Joe King]

Far more interesting than the bloody lying bible!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

How can a book lie houchen or even have a personality? Has something happened to make you so angry?

 

[skybluetony176]

How can a book lie houchen or even have a personality? Has something happened to make you so angry?

I think he's saying that he doesn't believe that the stories in the Bible are factual but people pedal them as the truth, hence it's lies.

 

[Grendel]

I think he's saying that he doesn't believe that the stories in the Bible are factual but people pedal them as the truth, hence it's lies.

I think you are mixing God up with Astute.

 

[skybluetony176]

I think you are mixing God up with Astute.

I think you've had that ninth pint. By the way sisu is spelt S I S U not A S T U T E

 

[Otis]

I think you've had that ninth pint. By the way sisu is spelt S I S U not A S T U T E

I thought Sisu was spelt S A T A N?

 

[skybluetony176]

I thought Sisu was spelt S A T A N?

Good point.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Forecasts not great. Has god deserted us or is this an analogy of god pouring out his spirit on Coventry as at the first Pentecost

 

[Joe King]

What the f**k are you banging on about Pete? This is a FOOTBALL forum. If you want to pedal your religion, join a god forum or whatever. Stop trying to convert people to your loony beliefs! And further to your question at post #86, yes, something did happen to me. Religion happened to me. Priests happened to me. Nuns happened to me. A convent upbringing happened to me. Mouldy and stale food happened to me. Beatings happened to me. Sexual assault happened to my sisters by a priest. And you want to know why I hate religion?
Don't EVER try to placate me with religious mumblings how god does this for a reason and god does that for a reason! There is no such thing! Oh yeah, by the way, Jimmy Saville was a strict Roman Catholic as well! Very f**kin' religious, wasn't he?

 

[Otis]

What the f**k are you banging on about Pete? This is a FOOTBALL forum. If you want to pedal your religion, join a god forum or whatever. Stop trying to convert people to your loony beliefs! And further to your question at post #86, yes, something did happen to me. Religion happened to me. Priests happened to me. Nuns happened to me. A convent upbringing happened to me. Mouldy and stale food happened to me. Beatings happened to me. Sexual assault happened to my sisters by a priest. And you want to know why I hate religion?
Don't EVER try to placate me with religious mumblings how god does this for a reason and god does that for a reason! There is no such thing! Oh yeah, by the way, Jimmy Saville was a strict Roman Catholic as well! Very f**kin' religious, wasn't he?

Really sorry to hear, Houch.

Not Pete's fault though and he's entitled to his beliefs. Think you are being a tad harsh on him to be honest.

Don't understand your sentiments though. My brother died a not at all nice death all alone in a motel room and I had to wonder, where was God then? Said the same when I learned about the Jamie Bulger killing and the Soham murders and the disappearance of Madeline Mcann etc. Where was God then? Felt exactly the same about 911 and the thousands lost at the Twin Towers. How could any God just allow such an atrocity to take place?

Does irk me when a person makes a miraculous recovery from some illness or disease and people thank God for a miracle. Doesn't make sense. Why would God choose to save one person and then allow some poor innocent child to die the most horrendous of deaths?

Fine if people believe in God and then believe he has left mankind to its own devices, but this occasional miracle things just doens't make any semblance of sense at all.

Also this nonsense whereby if you accept Jesus as your saviour you will be saved and if you don't you're going to hell. Just doesn't wash.

Remember being stopped by a Christian in the street trying to point me in the way of Jesus. Had a long debate with him in the city centre.

I concluded in saying, 'So, John Lennon, who fought for peace and tried to change the world in his own little way, campaigning for a peaceful existence for mankind, would go to hell because he didn't believe in God, but a serial killer who on his death bed accepts Jesus as his saviour would go to heaven. Is that right?'

I knew the answer was a yes but he couldn't bring himself to say it, and with that I just turned on my heels left and went on my merry way.

You also have the nonsense of Muslims saying all non Muslims are going to hell, Jews saying non Jews are going to hell and Christians saying non Christians are going to hell etc. etc.

They can't all be right. More than likely because they are all wrong.

For religion to survive we need modern thinking that reflects the world we live today and facts that are now in place that weren't thousands of years ago.

Far too much killing in the name of God for my liking.

 

[Joe King]

Excellent post Otis. What more can I say. Thank you.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Really sorry too houch! This is an off topic forum my friend. Again Otis I would say a misunderstanding of their faith. Life is about us and god not just god. We can have no understanding further than do as I do said Jesus and build his kingdom. I have less problem with man made horrors than out of mans control horrors. Tsunami etc

 

[Otis]

Really sorry too houch! This is an off topic forum my friend. Again Otis I would say a misunderstanding of their faith. Life is about us and god not just god. We can have no understanding further than do as I do said Jesus and build his kingdom. I have less problem with man made horrors than out of mans control horrors. Tsunami etc

My problem's not with you, Pete. No problem with any individual and his own personal relationship with God. It's organised religion I have a problem with.

I do understand more than you think, Pete. I have read the bible, I hear what religious people say. I studied a bit to try and find out how different religions work and how their views of God differs.

I watch the Big Questions every week without fail and I hear what iman's and preists and vicars and theologians etc. and I see the opposing views and how much of a nonsense it makes of organised religions and their entrenched views. For many of these religious people it is pure black and white with no grey inbetween.

One will say 'this' is the word of God and another will say almost the complete opposite.

Let me ask you one simple question. Can God perform miracles or not and if he can, does he perform miracles (saving individuals' lives etc)?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

My problem's not with you, Pete. No problem with any individual and his own personal relationship with God. It's organised religion I have a problem with.

I do understand more than you think, Pete. I have read the bible, I hear what religious people say. I studied a bit to try and find out how different religions work and how their views of God differs.

I watch the Big Questions every week without fail and I hear what iman's and preists and vicars and theologians etc. and I see the opposing views and how much of a nonsense it makes of organised religions and their entrenched views. For many of these religious people it is pure black and white with no grey inbetween.

One will say 'this' is the word of God and another will say almost the complete opposite.

Let me ask you one simple question. Can God perform miracles or not and if he can, does he perform miracles (saving individuals' lives etc)?

I recognise you are a thoughtful intelligent man.

Been battling with that question since going to Bosnia Hercegovina last year for work with a Christian charity novi most seeking to make the future hopeful following the 90's war.

I cannot accept that god will intervene to enable a xian to get a parking space and not intervene to avoid a family being raped and murdered by their neighbours.

I recognise this gives me a genuine problem with my faith.

The trite answer is god deserves the praise when things go well and he tajes the flak when it doesn't but how on earth is that an answer to houch and thousands like him.

My answer is god does but I don't get why or when and I think I am verging on he can't do otherwise his choices are worse than mind and sometimes I make very bad ones

Often people think my faith is immature and if bad stuff happened to be then I would lose it but terrible stuff has happened, like dad, and I feel a peace and wisdom that enables me to get up the next morning.

Is that an answer Otis?

 

[Otis]

I recognise you are a thoughtful intelligent man.

Been battling with that question since going to Bosnia Hercegovina last year for work with a Christian charity novi most seeking to make the future hopeful following the 90's war.

I cannot accept that god will intervene to enable a xian to get a parking space and not intervene to avoid a family being raped and murdered by their neighbours.

I recognise this gives me a genuine problem with my faith.

The trite answer is god deserves the praise when things go well and he tajes the flak when it doesn't but how on earth is that an answer to houch and thousands like him.

My answer is god does but I don't get why or when and I think I am verging on he can't do otherwise his choices are worse than mind and sometimes I make very bad ones

Often people think my faith is immature and if bad stuff happened to be then I would lose it but terrible stuff has happened, like dad, and I feel a peace and wisdom that enables me to get up the next morning.

Is that an answer Otis?

It is.


Just not the one I was looking for.


I just wonder if you too have a problem with the likes of all these footballers who look to the sky and thank God when they score a goal or whatever? Cheapens relgion for me that. Something so trivial and there will probably be a defender on the other team who prayed to stop the ball going into the net wondering what's going on.

Don't have a problem with people praying for God's help in moment's of crisis and at crucial times or when someone is ill etc., but praying to God to be on the winning team or to score the winning goal?

My neighbours are a bit OTT at times for me too, despite being the lovely people they are. Last year they invited us round on bonfire night and actually thanked God for the fireworks!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It is.


Just not the one I was looking for.


I just wonder if you too have a problem with the likes of all these footballers who look to the sky and thank God when they score a goal or whatever? Cheapens relgion for me that. Something so trivial and there will probably be a defender on the other team who prayed to stop the ball going into the net wondering what's going on.

Don't have a problem with people praying for God's help in moment's of crisis and at crucial times or when someone is ill etc., but praying to God to be on the winning team or to score the winning goal?

My neighbours are a bit OTT at times for me too, despite being the lovely people they are. Last year they invited us round on bonfire night and actually thanked God for the fireworks!

What answer were you looking for?

If it's a true, genuine thanks I think it's wonderful. A genuine grateful heart is one of the answers to a fulfilled life I think

 

[Otis]

What answer were you looking for?

If it's a true, genuine thanks I think it's wonderful. A genuine grateful heart is one of the answers to a fulfilled life I think

I just don't get it. Trivialises the whole thing for me. Sure, give thanks for your health and happiness and your friends and family, but thanking God for a box of fireworks? What next? Thank you God for this bar of soap, thank you God for making my Satsuma pip-less, thank you God for putting ink in my biro, thank you God for my slippers and dressing gown?

Totally cheapens the whole concept for me and sorry but I have to say, I find it all rather ridiculous. Had a real problem that night not bursting into laughter when they thanked God for the fireworks and then asked him to bless them.

 

[TheRoyalScam]

Why is god/God masculine? Surely if it exists it wouldn't have a sex? Is it just an attempt (with the capital 'G') to personify god/God? Would you still believe/have faith in your god/God if it was called the 'Golden Saucer', or simply 'Fred'?

Do you believe me when I tell you I have a fire-breathing dragon living in my garage? I'm sure you don't, just as I believe that your god/God has never existed.

Interestingly I can prove to you that my dragon exists - come into my garage.......

'But I can't see your dragon', you argue.

My first response to your disbelief is that 'it's an invisible dragon, as invisible as the air we breathe'.

Now you can ask me any question, set any experiment, use any logic or reasoning to prove that my dragon doesn't exist.

I don't think you'll be able to

I believe in my fire-breathing dragon

I'm ready to answer your questions and refute your scientific experiments/reasoning.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Why is god/God masculine? Surely if it exists it wouldn't have a sex? Is it just an attempt (with the capital 'G') to personify god/God? Would you still believe/have faith in your god/God if it was called the 'Golden Saucer', or simply 'Fred'?

Do you believe me when I tell you I have a fire-breathing dragon living in my garage? I'm sure you don't, just as I believe that your god/God has never existed.

Interestingly I can prove to you that my dragon exists - come into my garage.......

'But I can't see your dragon', you argue.

My first response to your disbelief is that 'it's an invisible dragon, as invisible as the air we breathe'.

Now you can ask me any question, set any experiment, use any logic or reasoning to prove that my dragon doesn't exist.

I don't think you'll be able to

I believe in my fire-breathing dragon

I'm ready to answer your questions and refute your scientific experiments/reasoning.

Yahweh is not masculine it means to be or to become in Hebrew.

Jesus was the physical representation of god in human form so I absolutely agree that god is not a being in the sense of us. We are to understand ourselves made in the image of him but again image is not about feature but character.

And you don't really believe in your fire breathing dragon you are using a straw man,

I agree Otis cheapens it massively but still grateful ness is a trait that can lead to happiness and fulfilment.

It says a lot about you that you didn't laugh

 

[TheRoyalScam]

Yahweh is not masculine it means to be or to become in Hebrew. So why is the Christian god/God referred to by the pronouns 'he' and 'his' instead of 'it' and 'its'. And why don't we call the Christian god/God Yahweh? Did it change its old testament name by deedpoll?

Jesus was the physical representation of god in human form so I absolutely agree that god is not a being in the sense of us. We are to understand ourselves made in the image of him but again image is not about feature but character. You cannot prove any of this. Gods impregnating humans were commonplace in mythology - think of Zeus and his various offspring (including Hercules, Castor and Pollux, Helen of Troy, Minos and many more).

And you don't really believe in your fire breathing dragon you are using a straw man, I want to see if anyone can prove that my fire-eating dragon doesn't exist. Whether I 'really believe' in it is irrelevant.
I agree Otis cheapens it massively but still grateful ness is a trait that can lead to happiness and fulfilment. Where did I say that 'Otis cheapens it massively'? I can't understand your argument here.

It says a lot about you that you didn't laugh Laugh at what??

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Sorry royal scam I was saying I agree with Otis about the part he was saying about thanking god for fireworks and the bit about him not laughing.

You know that there are many names for the Hebrew/Christian god don't you?

I think there is quite a lot of contemporaneous evidence for the man Jesus not just in the bible. Faith is the only answer to your dragon and faith (being sure of something I cannot see) is ultimately the only answer I can give for the reality of my god.