Nick
Administrator
Why would it be in their interest if the Ricoh is better off now without the club? Surely if SISU were building an exhibition hall it would be competition but a football stadium?
It would be in their interests to block it within their territory.
Increasing the chances of it not happening and SISU returning to the Ricoh.
Just a thought, but if CCFC do build a new stadium surely that would open up to a 2 team City????
I hear the argument that we already struggle for crowds, even at the Ricoh but reading between the lines what else will the acutal pitch be used for????? Im also not suggesting that in my life time (Im still young) that it would be a fierce rivalry but I can see this happening. How???????
Just a thought, but if CCFC do build a new stadium surely that would open up to a 2 team City????
I hear the argument that we already struggle for crowds, even at the Ricoh but reading between the lines what else will the acutal pitch be used for????? Im also not suggesting that in my life time (Im still young) that it would be a fierce rivalry but I can see this happening. How???????
Which they tried and failed to do in the past. They were happy to sell to anyone but SISU.
Another sisu disguise ?
Just a thought, but if CCFC do build a new stadium surely that would open up to a 2 team City????
I hear the argument that we already struggle for crowds, even at the Ricoh but reading between the lines what else will the acutal pitch be used for????? Im also not suggesting that in my life time (Im still young) that it would be a fierce rivalry but I can see this happening. How???????
joys already admited that the club wont own the ground should sh itsu buy it.
It isn't going to happen because Joy says so? By that logic, the sale won't happen because CCC say so (at Joy's price) and the new stadium won't happen because planning law says so.
Something's got to give here. As fans that should be our preferred option IMO as it's the best for the club.
And Joy might accept a deal where the club have access to revenue and a very long lease at virtually nothing. That adds value to the club, even if not as much as the whole complex, and might enable a return on her investment. One, you might argue, she has actually earned through good negotiation.
Why? CCC have said they don't need a football club so I presume the Ricoh will no longer be football stadium but just an exhibition and concert venue.
What other team will play at the Ricoh? Surely if it was non league they wouldn't be able to afford the rent / match costs and the other option is to move a club in?
Nick, your missing the point though, if ACL/CCC are right in that they will survive without CCFC why not offer it to a non-league team (new or established) for free on the basis that when they start climbing the league rent agreements are discussed etc.
I am not advocating a new team either, im just putting out there.
So Torch, your a high flying businessman, would let the stadia rot which effectively would happen if just using it for a few concerts every year and lets face it our Rugby team are no Leicester Tigers or are you suggesting they would re-design the stadia i.e. Put a roof over it so it effectively becomes a big exhibition hall????
But it won't rot, will it? Lucas told us yesterday that the Ricoh is a land of milk and honey. And I'm not suggesting they do anything with it, I'm sure they will do what they have to do. SISU have said they want a new stadium and ACL have said they can live without us so maybe club and stadium should finally go their separate ways. Everyone would be happy, wouldn't they? SISU get their income, fans won't have SISU owning the Ricoh and the stadium will be a cash cow for CCC.
Then surely if they love CCFC so much they could offer them the same deal, as I have said on other threads this would make them come out smelling with roses wouldn't it and you couldn't really argue SISU's side much?
100% with you on this, an I said on a thread many moons ago they should offer it free however hasnt Joy stated that they will only return if owned????
What about if the council came out and said "You can play here rent free with just matchday costs with the same F and B deal as at Northampton (so ACL still make some off pies) while you build your stadium"
You couldn't really argue with that could you? ACL would surely still be better off than they are without us as they get some from pies and the casino etc would be happier?
If that turns out to be the case - and it certainly looks that way - then do you think the CCC would object to sisu building a new stadium?
What about if the council came out and said "You can play here rent free with just matchday costs with the same F and B deal as at Northampton (so ACL still make some off pies) while you build your stadium"
You couldn't really argue with that could you? ACL would surely still be better off than they are without us as they get some from pies and the casino etc would be happier?
No, I am sure OSB will tell you this but it's normal practice (and should have been the case with CCFC's previous structure) to separate the company holding the lease from that which is paying the players and transfer fees etc.
Why would it be in their interest if the Ricoh is better off now without the club? Surely if SISU were building an exhibition hall it would be competition but a football stadium?
If the council and ACL love the club then surely that would be a win win if they are doing well? At least if they offered it then when SISU turn it down it can only make them look bad.
Perfect solution Nick-... until you factor in Otiums freehold or forget it stance...and so now the roadblock is?
To build a stadium is a massive project that has massive impact on the local community. Some positive some negative. They would need to be happy that the negative impacts it has are justifiable and outweighed by the positive ones.
Could the football club use the stadium already there.... Yes
Can they justify the negative impact of building a massive infrastructure, questionable.
Can they trust the business acronym of the company proposing to build the stadium that it will happen and will be a confusing long term success that will justify the negative impacts, questionable.
I think if the council wanted an excuse to say no they have plenty.
Never mind the obvious thought that they don't trust SISU and another stadium reduces the chance of the Ricoh and Coventry City FC getting reunited. Which apart from financial implications is what the council would want
That's a deeply unpleasant thought in itself isn't it, that the purpose of a football ground is no longer as a football ground.
Forget selling it.
As fans we should be behind a low rent, long term lease solution. With access to revenues from football.
All we should care about is success for the club, neither the freehold nor a high rent benefit the club, but rather third parties.
But isn't that what Mr Fisher said we had? They had cleaned up the mess so that the lease etc. was in CCFC Ltd. and the players, 'golden share etc. were in CCFCH. Now, as I understand it they have put everything back into one company Otium. So if model A was the best business case (and I agree with OSB that is standard practice) why have we reverted to model B?
If as he says they do not need CCFC and they have made up the 1.25 million hole + in the budget thats fine so why did'nt they do that when CCFC were at the Ricoh and make a shilt load of profit? instead of what the last set of accounts showed? They are not going to make anything from the Football Arena with no football so they need to expand the catering conference facility and expand the Hotel.
100% spot on shmmeee and I believe that once the JR is over and they're 'allowed to talk', CCC/ACL will formally make such an offer to SISU. That will finally put every last ball in SISU's court.
Regarding sale of the freehold to SISU, it will never, ever happen. Talk of £25m offers is plain daft:
Extract from 'A Prison of Measured Time' 27/09/13:
In any case, 100% ownership of the freehold on the Ricoh could be problematic for any purchaser, as ACL currently hold a lease to manage the whole of the site that has some 43 years still to run. Compensation for loss of earnings would be substantial and negotiations between the two organisations are unlikely to be starting from a particularly positive position. The construction costs totalled £118 million and as land values increase rather than depreciate, any bid would, under normal circumstances, have to allow for inflation. If it was even possible for an entity to purchase both the freehold and cancel the lease, the value of ACL would also have to be considered, a company with a strong portfolio of assets that supports a Balance Sheet value of around £7 million. There is also the need to account for the recently formed joint venture between ACL and Compass Contract Services UK Ltd that runs the catering side of the business, IEC Experience Ltd. This would, in my opinion, suggest a valuation somewhere in the region of between £120 to £160 million would represent fair market rates base solely on book values, but this is unlikely to be met of course. It is likely that the valuation put on the freehold by the hedge fund will be considerably lower. SISU are used to purchasing distressed companies well under market value. How much would the Council be allowed to write off on the investment before serious questions would be raised by those in opposition and by the tax payers of the City?
100% spot on shmmeee and I believe that once the JR is over and they're 'allowed to talk', CCC/ACL will formally make such an offer to SISU. That will finally put every last ball in SISU's court.
Regarding sale of the freehold to SISU, it will never, ever happen. Talk of £25m offers is plain daft:
Extract from 'A Prison of Measured Time' 27/09/13:
In any case, 100% ownership of the freehold on the Ricoh could be problematic for any purchaser, as ACL currently hold a lease to manage the whole of the site that has some 43 years still to run. Compensation for loss of earnings would be substantial and negotiations between the two organisations are unlikely to be starting from a particularly positive position. The construction costs totalled £118 million and as land values increase rather than depreciate, any bid would, under normal circumstances, have to allow for inflation. If it was even possible for an entity to purchase both the freehold and cancel the lease, the value of ACL would also have to be considered, a company with a strong portfolio of assets that supports a Balance Sheet value of around £7 million. There is also the need to account for the recently formed joint venture between ACL and Compass Contract Services UK Ltd that runs the catering side of the business, IEC Experience Ltd. This would, in my opinion, suggest a valuation somewhere in the region of between £120 to £160 million would represent fair market rates base solely on book values, but this is unlikely to be met of course. It is likely that the valuation put on the freehold by the hedge fund will be considerably lower. SISU are used to purchasing distressed companies well under market value. How much would the Council be allowed to write off on the investment before serious questions would be raised by those in opposition and by the tax payers of the City?
Probably because both Fisher and Seppala have both said, that they don't wish to deal with CCC. But its ok as they have both stated their wish to build a new stadium on the outskirts of the City. If Fisher says they intend to build a new stadium, who are we to doubt him.Don't see why they should. They say two things: the Ricoh can survive without the Club and they "love" CCFC. So, why on earth should they object to the Club coming back to the City where it belongs?
Surely the best way is to just get 3 independent valuations from specialist companies and then take the average to get a fair value?
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