PONTICELLI (12 Viewers)

Gazolba · Sep 25, 2017

Imagine if we leave it till the second half of the season before we give Ponticelli a chance. Then he turns out to be a prolific goal scorer. We'll all be kicking ourselves saying what might have been if we'd only played him earlier. Of course, we wont play him later because then we'll either be fighting for the play-off spots or fighting against relegation. Too risky then to chance an untried player. Now is the time to give him a few games, at the start of the season, when nothing is really at stake.

Mucca Mad Boys · Sep 25, 2017

Gazolba said:
Imagine if we leave it till the second half of the season before we give Ponticelli a chance. Then he turns out to be a prolific goal scorer. We'll all be kicking ourselves saying what might have been if we'd only played him earlier. Of course, we wont play him later because then we'll either be fighting for the play-off spots or fighting against relegation. Too risky then to chance an untried player. Now is the time to give him a few games, at the start of the season, when nothing is really at stake.

I don’t think that is the case. Robins’ has made it fairly clear that he doesn’t feel like he’s ready yet. So if he did get introduced and scored lots of goals, it would be because Robins’ has seen enough in training to prove he’s up to the standards of our current starters. Besides, how many 18-19yr olds are able to maintain high standards throughout a long season. Armstrong couldn’t stop scoring but stagnated and it took seemingly an age for him to eventually hit 20 goals. You have to be patient with young players.

stevefloyd · Sep 26, 2017

If we leave him to the 2nd half of the season and he starts scoring prolific that would be great! whos to know if we play him early if it will screw him up or not...let him keep scoring in the unders until its impossible to leave him out, I am sure Robins is keeping a very very close eye on him, he's been on the bench a few times giving him first hand experience of watching a learning but doubt he will be on the bench for tonights game

skybluegod · Sep 26, 2017

Gazolba said:
Imagine if we leave it till the second half of the season before we give Ponticelli a chance. Then he turns out to be a prolific goal scorer. We'll all be kicking ourselves saying what might have been if we'd only played him earlier. Of course, we wont play him later because then we'll either be fighting for the play-off spots or fighting against relegation. Too risky then to chance an untried player. Now is the time to give him a few games, at the start of the season, when nothing is really at stake.

You say that but then you could argue that, because he was kept out of the public eye, he was given the chance to improve day in day out away from pressure, and that is why he was so good in the second half of the season.
So it’s a pretty silly argument.

Adge · Sep 26, 2017

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Pretty stupid way of measuring ‘success’... you’ve picked players who have gone on to play at premiership level. We’ve not been a prem side in a generation.

We’ve had a conveyor belt of young talent coming out of the club. By definition, the purpose of an academy is to produce first team players. We’ve consistently done this over a good 5+ years. Off the top of my head, I’ll reel off the following; Clarke, Cameron, Christie, Wilson, Turner, Davenport, McSheffrey, Willis, DKE twins, Stevenson, Haynes, Burge, Bigi, Maddison, both Connor and George Thomas and there’s probably more. A mixture of ability, but that’s reflective of our demise from Championship to League 2, so the definition of a successful academy changes.

I’d also argue that even though players like Harries didn’t play many games for the club, we got a fee off a club for them so the club got something for their trouble. We’re a lower football league side and having our young players poached is something we have to deal with.

Interestingly I had a conversation recently with Steven Pressley and his time at the club. I think it is well known that his remit was to replicate the Falkirk model at Ccfc where he slashed the wage bill and was told to "develop" the academy into the first team. Remember he gave an example where he gave George Thomas his debut at 16 at Leyton Orient not because George Thomas was a good player or ready at the time, but because there was nobody else.Also the bench that night was also made up of youth team/academy players who are now no longer involved in football. And with that remit is it any surprise we are where we are. Said if he knew what was coming ie/budgets/players/administration/points deduction's/Northampton move etc, that he should in hindsight, have left for Huddersfield who he had spoken too.

SlowerThanPlatt · Sep 26, 2017

Adge said:
Interestingly I had a conversation recently with Steven Pressley and his time at the club. I think it is well known that his remit was to replicate the Falkirk model at Ccfc where he slashed the wage bill and was told to "develop" the academy into the first team. Remember he gave an example where he gave George Thomas his debut at 16 at Leyton Orient not because George Thomas was a good player or ready at the time, but because there was nobody else.Also the bench that night was also made up of youth team/academy players who are now no longer involved in football. And with that remit is it any surprise we are where we are. Said if he knew what was coming ie/budgets/players/administration/points deduction's/Northampton move etc, that he should in hindsight, have left for Huddersfield who he had spoken too.

What are you talking about? Why do you keep making up things when a quick search on Google proves you wrong?

On the bench that night were Burge, Jordan Clarke, Haynes, Phillips, Willis, Barton and Slager.

Nick · Sep 26, 2017

SlowerThanPlatt said:
What are you talking about? Why do you keep making up things when a quick search on Google proves you wrong?

On the bench that night were Burge, Jordan Clarke, Haynes, Phillips, Willis, Barton and Slager.

Slager the striker he gave an 18 month contract and he left a month later mutually?

Danceswithhorses · Sep 26, 2017

Adge said:
Interestingly I had a conversation recently with Steven Pressley and his time at the club. I think it is well known that his remit was to replicate the Falkirk model at Ccfc where he slashed the wage bill and was told to "develop" the academy into the first team. Remember he gave an example where he gave George Thomas his debut at 16 at Leyton Orient not because George Thomas was a good player or ready at the time, but because there was nobody else.Also the bench that night was also made up of youth team/academy players who are now no longer involved in football. And with that remit is it any surprise we are where we are. Said if he knew what was coming ie/budgets/players/administration/points deduction's/Northampton move etc, that he should in hindsight, have left for Huddersfield who he had spoken too.

Sounds like he was sold a pup.
Maybe he should have jumped and gone to Huddersfield, or maybe have quit in protest, and been honest with the fans at the time, who would presumably have had some sympathy for him.
As it is, he is almost unemployable...he chose poorly.

Nick · Sep 26, 2017

Pressley also said this about Orient.

"And credit to Leyton Orient. They're a really hard-working side and I hope for Russell Slade they are one of the sides that go up. They are an example to everybody about how to build a football club."

skybluesam66 · Sep 26, 2017

to be honest a team with
Joe Murphy
cyrus christie
John Fleck
Carl Baker
Leon Clarke
Callum Wilson

should have been strong enough to finish top 6 even with a points deduction

fernandopartridge · Sep 26, 2017

skybluesam66 said:
to be honest a team with
Joe Murphy
cyrus christie
John Fleck
Carl Baker
Leon Clarke
Callum Wilson

should have been strong enough to finish top 6 even with a points deduction

LOL

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Adge · Sep 26, 2017

SlowerThanPlatt said:
What are you talking about? Why do you keep making up things when a quick search on Google proves you wrong?

On the bench that night were Burge, Jordan Clarke, Haynes, Phillips, Willis, Barton and Slager.

Just passing on what he said. Maybe it was another game if anybody can be bothered to research it?

fernandopartridge · Sep 26, 2017

Adge said:
Just passing on what he said. Maybe it was another game if anybody can be bothered to research it?

Leyton Orient v Coventry City, 28 January 2014

Is when George Thomas played up front at 16.

This might be the game you're on about, second game of Sixfields season:

Leyton Orient v Coventry City, 06 August 2013

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fatso · Sep 26, 2017

stevefloyd said:
If we leave him to the 2nd half of the season and he starts scoring prolific that would be great! whos to know if we play him early if it will screw him up or not...let him keep scoring in the unders until its impossible to leave him out, I am sure Robins is keeping a very very close eye on him, he's been on the bench a few times giving him first hand experience of watching a learning but doubt he will be on the bench for tonights game

It's odd that MR dosnt think that ponticelli is ready yet, but somehow believes that Beavon is!
Personally, I don't think we need to rely on him (ponticelli) scoring all season, but we do need some goals from somewhere between now and January, when the transfer window opens again, and our lack of goals can be addressed properly.
Whichever way you look at it, it's bad management to go into a crusial season without a proven, experienced goalkeeper, and without a natural goal scorer.

That may go some way to explain why MR is managing a crisis riddled club in division 2 instead of an ambitious outfit in the championship.
I hope I'm wrong and the goals start flowing, ....... Only time will tell.

Grendel · Sep 26, 2017

skybluesam66 said:
to be honest a team with
Joe Murphy
cyrus christie
John Fleck
Carl Baker
Leon Clarke
Callum Wilson

should have been strong enough to finish top 6 even with a points deduction

Clarke left in January, Wilson I think was injured for a while and didn't Christie say he was off by the end of the season and gave up? Baker was back to baker in the championship after December.

ccfcway · Sep 26, 2017

fatso said:
Whichever way you look at it, it's bad management to go into a crusial season without a proven, experienced goalkeeper, and without a natural goal scorer. That may go some way to explain why MR is managing a crisis riddled club in division 2 instead of an ambitious outfit in the championship. I hope I'm wrong and the goals start flowing, ....... Only time will tell.

9 games in, 5 goals conceded and beat the top 2,

boooooo

Johnnythespider · Sep 26, 2017

I like to imagine to myself that Robins who is manager, knows he isn't quite ready yet and that when he is he will give him some game time. Just imagine if Robins had put him in the side for two or three games and he didn't score, and we lost those games everybody would be saying, what's he playing at putting an untried kid into the side when we've got Nazon.

Nick · Sep 26, 2017

Johnnythespider said:
I like to imagine to myself that Robins who is manager, knows he isn't quite ready yet and that when he is he will give him some game time. Just imagine if Robins had put him in the side for two or three games and he didn't score, and we lost those games everybody would be saying, what's he playing at putting an untried kid into the side when we've got Nazon.

That's the thing, people seem to forget he hasn't been a footballer for very long. Robins will use him when he feels he is ready, at the minute he sees biamou in front of him anyway.

Johnnythespider · Sep 26, 2017

Nick said:
That's the thing, people seem to forget he hasn't been a footballer for very long. Robins will use him when he feels he is ready, at the minute he sees biamou in front of him anyway.

As do I, I quite like the option Biamou gives us and if he can add a couple of goals to his game all the better.

fatso · Sep 26, 2017

ccfcway said:
9 games in, 5 goals conceded and beat the top 2,

boooooo

In case you hadnt realised, I was referring to goals scored.

Greggs · Sep 26, 2017

Does it make sense introducing a kid into a team of players that are yet to gel.....or waiting until the team is more established?

vow · Sep 26, 2017

skybluesam66 said:
to be honest a team with
Joe Murphy
cyrus christie
John Fleck
Carl Baker
Leon Clarke
Callum Wilson

should have been strong enough to finish top 6 even with a points deduction

....and they nearly did it too, apart from a collapse near the end of the season.

Esoterica · Sep 26, 2017

I just hope Ponticelli gets a chance soon so people will shut up about him. When he doesn't score with every touch he gets I hope it starts to sink in that the issue behind the lack of goals is as much formation than personnel. All this lack of natural goalscorer chat is a load of old bollocks. Almost all players at this level need 2 or 3 decent chances per game to score (Just look at some of what has been missed against us - header over from a yard out, Reid's 1 on 1 Saturday) and we just haven't been creating that until already ahead in games.

Hobo · Sep 26, 2017

SlowerThanPlatt said:
What are you talking about? Why do you keep making up things when a quick search on Google proves you wrong?

On the bench that night were Burge, Jordan Clarke, Haynes, Phillips, Willis, Barton and Slager.

Full of experience and quality....
Exhibit A: Slager!!

SlowerThanPlatt · Oct 3, 2017

Great moment for the lad

Adge · Oct 3, 2017

SlowerThanPlatt said:
Great moment for the lad

View attachment 8124

And hopefully the first of many!

stevefloyd · Oct 3, 2017

Just imagine the clamour coming to a forum near you very very soon

SeaSeeEffCee · Oct 3, 2017

Someone fit him into this

superskyblue · Oct 3, 2017

Just seen the goal on twitter. Whilst I'm sure the lad is a good finisher, I think every single one of our strikers would have scored so I'm not getting too hyped up yet.

Skybluefaz · Oct 3, 2017

superskyblue said:
Just seen the goal on twitter. Whilst I'm sure the lad is a good finisher, I think every single one of our strikers would have scored so I'm not getting too hyped up yet.

I get you, but, would they all have got themselves into that position? Beavon would have found a way to miss bless him.

shmmeee · Oct 3, 2017

superskyblue said:
Just seen the goal on twitter. Whilst I'm sure the lad is a good finisher, I think every single one of our strikers would have scored so I'm not getting too hyped up yet.

Two in two for the first team now isn’t it?

Lineker never scored from more than about five yards his whole career, still a bloody good striker

pusbccfc · Oct 3, 2017

That's the thing with Ponti, having watched him a few times at youth level, he just gets into the positions. He is a clever lad.

Although I agree with not playing him right now, I wouldn't argue against him coming off the bench in the league.

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 4, 2017

shmmeee said:
Two in two for the first team now isn’t it?

Lineker never scored from more than about five yards his whole career, still a bloody good striker

Exactly. Whilst he's obviously not that good, he is a goal poacher who gets into goalscoring positions. He seems to have that "natural goalscorer" instinct, which a few of our strikers-(whose overall game is way ahead of his at this stage) -sure don't, and for that reason he's a very handy sub. He brings something different. His overall game can be worked on and coached over time, but that knack of scoring goals is something that some players just have and it is rare and invaluable. Robins has clearly seen this, hence the long term contract. He'll feed him in gradually in games like today and soon, I really hope, some league games as a sub.

I'm delighted he's been given a chance and taken it so well. I know it was a simple finish tonight, but he got into that goalscoring position and it's hard to argue with his strike rate!

SkyblueBazza · Oct 4, 2017

If he is a poacher - MR is doing right so far imo. He will be watching & thinking "I would've put that one away" & just building up his angst & determination.
This boy could have Lineker value to him if he is managed right.

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Gazolba · Oct 4, 2017

It doesn't really matter because he'll be gone before the end of the season.
We better play him while we can.

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