Rebecca Long-Bailey sacked (18 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Some form of retraction from the source

 

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[Liquid Gold]

Any news on her replacement. Surely it has to be someone from the left or his unity idea is dead.

 

[Nick]

Politics is fucking weird isn't it. Properly sly, backstabbing pricks.

Id have more respect if they sorted it like this

 

[Nick]

Some form of retraction from the source

I mean it's almost as if somebody has been forced to say something that is actually true, isn't true so it means she can get work in the future.

That's wrong.

Plus it was only the other day she was ironing with her tits out in Shameless.

 

[Grendel]

I mean it's almost as if somebody has been forced to say something that is actually true, isn't true so it means she can get work in the future.

That's wrong.

Plus it was only the other day she was ironing with her tits out in Shameless.

It isn’t true and as someone else said it’s what the hard left do - send a dog whistle to the anti semites while pretending to care about an issue in Israel

 

[Nick]

It isn’t true and as someone else said it’s what the hard left do - send a dog whistle to the anti semites while pretending to care about an issue in Israel

It is true though?

It's being pushed as some mad, made up conspiracy theory but the people trying to go out of their way to find offense with it are seemingly the batshit mental ones.

If it's offensive to mention Israeli forces / police methods and the training of Krav Maga, maybe it should be banned?

 

[Grendel]

It is true though?

It's being pushed as some mad, made up conspiracy theory but the people trying to go out of their way to find offense with it are seemingly the batshit mental ones.

If it's offensive to mention Israeli forces / police methods and the training of Krav Maga, maybe it should be banned?

Why do you think it was said and why if you were told a front bench labour MP had retweetef everyone everyone would guess it was her?

 

[Nick]

Why do you think it was said and why if you were told a front bench labour MP had retweetef everyone everyone would guess it was her?

I am not saying I know anything about politics, I am just going from facts. The Independant who published the article say that it's unfounded that Us police are taught things like the neck kneel by Israelis. It isn't unfounded, it's been shown that US police go to Israel for training, it's been shown that it's a move in the martial art, it's been shown it's also done in Israel, there are videos of US police doing other moves from it.

Maybe if people just used logic and facts rather than politics, the world would be a better place.

 

[Skybluefaz]

It is true though?

It's being pushed as some mad, made up conspiracy theory but the people trying to go out of their way to find offense with it are seemingly the batshit mental ones.

If it's offensive to mention Israeli forces / police methods and the training of Krav Maga, maybe it should be banned?

To be clear, you are saying Maxine Peake retracting her statement to get future work is not a conspiracy theory, but saying that the American police were not trained to kneel on necks is?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Scotland is gone now for Labour - best case is they could take the seats not held by the SNP currently but that’s a real stretch.

Labour is also being pushed in Wales too. Frankly, the outlook is bleak and the next election probably make or break for the party.

It’s dominance looks to have evaporated for good, but there’s no reason the party cannot work back up to 15-30 Scottish seats. If it gets its act together.

At the very least, they need to make serious inroads on the tories in the next election or the party probably ceases to be a political force.

I used to belief that the party needed to be radical, offer real alternatives and so on. But, the party hasn’t really offered anything for its traditional working class base for some time. The party has become the party of the cosmopolitan middle-class, uni students and metropolitan areas.

Who’d have guessed the Tories would win the majority of the working class vote in 2017 & 2019?

Until the Labour Party starts speaking the language of ‘the working class’, it will continue to lose ground to the Tories and it will never win back Scotland, the north and so on.

 

[Nick]

To be clear, you are saying Maxine Peake retracting her statement to get future work is not a conspiracy theory, but saying that the American police were not trained to kneel on necks is?

I mean, she retracted something that was factually correct after seeing the shit storm and somebody lose her job. Pretty sure if there was no shit storm there would have been no retraction. Obvious really.

The fact that it's being made out as a "wild conspiracy" about the Israeli stuff is proven bollocks.

As I've said, when people are more bothered about politics than facts and logic then their mind gets a bit clouded with bullshit.

I don't know who the MP is, I have no bias or view either way just on what was said in the article and retweeted. It's not a wild anti-Semitic conspiracy, it's fact.

 

[clint van damme]

To be clear, you are saying Maxine Peake retracting her statement to get future work is not a conspiracy theory, but saying that the American police were not trained to kneel on necks is?

meanwhile a government minister who deprived one of the most deprived boroughs in the UK of 40 million is strutting around scot free while his mates have trousered the cash.

 

[Skybluefaz]

I mean, she retracted something that was factually correct after seeing the shit storm and somebody lose her job. Pretty sure if there was no shit storm there would have been no retraction. Obvious really.

The fact that it's being made out as a "wild conspiracy" about the Israeli stuff is proven bollocks.

As I've said, when people are more bothered about politics than facts and logic then their mind gets a bit clouded with bullshit.

Where is the definitive proof that us officers get trained to kneel on necks by Israel secret services? Have you picked that up from a website somewhere that is credible?

 

[Skybluefaz]

meanwhile a government minister who deprived one of the most deprived boroughs in the UK of 40 million is strutting around scot free while his mates have trousered the cash.

Yeah there are bigger things being ignored somehow.

 

[Grendel]

I mean, she retracted something that was factually correct after seeing the shit storm and somebody lose her job. Pretty sure if there was no shit storm there would have been no retraction. Obvious really.

The fact that it's being made out as a "wild conspiracy" about the Israeli stuff is proven bollocks.

As I've said, when people are more bothered about politics than facts and logic then their mind gets a bit clouded with bullshit.

Lee Rigby was beheaded by two black people who converted to Muslim. That 100% is true as is the fact that most grooming gangs are Muslim. Tommy Robinson is true when he says it. Why do you think he says it?

 

[Grendel]

Where is the definitive proof that us officers get trained to kneel on necks by Israel secret services? Have you picked that up from a website somewhere that is credible?

There is no proof but unfortunately you can see the influence the message has. Yesterday when Ian was off in one he got Nick to respond that Israel is like North Korea

 

[Nick]

Where is the definitive proof that us officers get trained to kneel on necks by Israel secret services? Have you picked that up from a website somewhere that is credible?

Have you followed the thread?

 

[Nick]

There is no proof but unfortunately you can see the influence the message has. Yesterday when Ian was off in one he got Nick to respond that Israel is like North Korea

I clearly didn't mean Israel is like it, I meant the fact you aren't allowed to talk about particular things is that it was like North Korea,

Again, this is what happens when politics come into it. People talk absolute shit to try and get things to go their way politically.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Until the Labour Party starts speaking the language of ‘the working class’, it will continue to lose ground to the Tories and it will never win back Scotland, the north and so on.

What is that, in your view?

 

[Skybluefaz]

Have you followed the thread?

Amnesty International: We never reported that "neck kneeling" is taught by Israelis to US

 

[Nick]

Lee Rigby was beheaded by two black people who converted to Muslim. That 100% is true as is the fact that most grooming gangs are Muslim. Tommy Robinson is true when he says it. Why do you think he says it?

Is it a wild, Islamaphobic, racist conspiracy that Lee Rigby was beheaded by two Muslim black people or is it a fact?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think Labour was quite obviously opposed to independence but formally sharing a platform with the Tories was suicide. Never say never but I just don’t see a winning path in England. Just the idea of decades more of right wing crap is a little disheartening.

They were concerned because a lot of Labour voters (at the time) were pro-independence and the party was worried about losing votes to the SNP.

Yet, it tried to appease both sides, yet offering nothing to either. Leaving a vacuum for the Tories to fill in Labours place.

Hindsight is 2020, but perhaps another legacy of Blairism and Browism ‘third way’ approach to politics influenced the class of the 2010s approach to these two referendums.

Yet, the fundamental mistake was understanding that on these two issues, the choices were binary.

 

[Nick]

Amnesty International: We never reported that "neck kneeling" is taught by Israelis to US

Ah, guess it's the same as Israelis not using neck kneeling methods too. Despite it being a move in a "Police Training" Krav Maga training video.

Everybody is on a massive backtrack it seems. Everybody wants to play on words and stuff.

I am just going on the article and what was said, without the politics. US Police do receive training from Israelis, they do get Krav Maga training in restraint, that does include kneeling on the neck.

I don't think anybody is saying that exact copper was trained one to one with an Israeli and was sent to do it to a black person, are they? Just that it happens.

 

[Grendel]

I clearly didn't mean Israel is like it, I meant the fact you aren't allowed to talk about particular things is that it was like North Korea,

Again, this is what happens when politics come into it. People talk absolute shit to try and get things to go their way politically.

The message is political. It’s trying to create an association with the Jews having some responsibility in the death of George Floyd and that they are “the problem”

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What track record does Starmer have in this situation?

He's used to listening to experts and their recommendations for legal cases. He's used to being calm and organised under pressure. He deals in facts and evidence.

It's worth remembering though that if it wasn't Johnson it would've been Corbyn, not Starmer in charge and frankly I don't think he'd have been any better. I think he'd have had public interest at the forefront of his mind compared to Johnson but would've dithered over stuff like lockdown etc. One way I think he might have made a big difference is to better isolate care homes, but that's just my own speculation.

I think they'd have also seen it as a great opportunity to bring the more radical left parts of their vision into being with renationalisation etc

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They were concerned because a lot of Labour voters (at the time) were pro-independence and the party was worried about losing votes to the SNP.

Yet, it tried to appease both sides, yet offering nothing to either. Leaving a vacuum for the Tories to fill in Labours place.

Hindsight is 2020, but perhaps another legacy of Blairism and Browism ‘third way’ approach to politics influenced the class of the 2010s approach to these two referendums.

Yet, the fundamental mistake was understanding that on these two issues, the choices were binary.

Labour had been drifting along into nothingness in Scotland for a while, probably much like it has been in Wales and industrial England. Then again, that doesn’t mean the Tories should suddenly get a free pass yet it seems they do.

 

[Grendel]

Is it a wild, Islamaphobic, racist conspiracy that Lee Rigby was beheaded by two Muslim black people or is it a fact?

It’s a fact and if you keep saying it over and over again as the far right do what is the purpose

 

[Nick]

The message is political. It’s trying to create an association with the Jews having some responsibility in the death of George Floyd and that they are “the problem”

Guess it depends how much you want to read into it and make an actual conspiracy about it.

Maybe they should ban the training of police forces in Israel of things like Krav Maga and restraint if it upsets people when it gets mentioned? Maybe we can all stop mentioning people going to Syria to learn how to make bombs in case it upsets ISIS.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Ah, guess it's the same as Israelis not using neck kneeling methods too. Despite it being a move in a "Police Training" Krav Maga training video.

Everybody is on a massive backtrack it seems. Everybody wants to play on words and stuff.

I am just going on the article and what was said, without the politics. US Police do receive training from Israelis, they do get Krav Maga training in restraint, that does include kneeling on the neck.

I don't think anybody is saying that exact copper was trained one to one with an Israeli and was sent to do it to a black person, are they? Just that it happens.

I don't disagree with you that even within the Labour party, the politics around this one is a fucking can of worms and makes it a shit show, from my point of view it was good leadership because without a doubt everyone in Labour would have been issued warning to stay away from anything that can be dragged into the Anti-semitism argument. That retweet by Long-Bailey stumbled into the territory, offensive or not, factually accurate or not. Starmer had to be seen to be tough on it though, and he was. Even though as mentioned it may give him tough times down the road.

 

[Nick]

It’s a fact and if you keep saying it over and over again as the far right do what is the purpose

So it's not a racist, islamaphobic conspiracy theory then?

I mean, you only need to see how it's been pushed by the media and you can see from shmeee's original reply (Which he has now had a change of view on):

Shared an article where it repeated the conspiracy theory that Israel trained the cops who killed George Floyd, proper bat shit stuff that shouldn’t have made it into a national newspaper in the first place.

Now it's been explained, I can see "why" somebody from Labour might not have been allowed to even go near an article which mentions Israel in a sentence but it's not really right.

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has sacked Rebecca Long-Bailey, saying she shared an article containing an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory.

It's also not a conspiracy theory, if it's offensive to talk about and people want to pretend it's made up then they should probably look at banning it.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I've re-read the article and can kind if see where it's coming from.

The article states that "system racism is a global issue"...and the follows as an example of system racism - " the tactics used by police in America, kneeling in George Floyd's neck (reading between the lines that kneeling on his neck was due to systemic racisim), that was learned from seminars from the Israeli secret service (implying that isreali secret service have taught racist police tactics,I'm guess ie using heavy handed tactics against a particular race e.g Israeli heavy handed tactics against Palestinians/muslims, and therefore encouraging America to do so against bame communities)

So the conspiracy theory is.

Israelis used heavy handed police techniques that they use against Palestinians who they have systemically racist against.

They taught America police their tactics to use against races that they do not like.

Therefore systemic racism is a global issue

It is very subtle.

For info Maxine Peake has retraced it.

And RLB appears to be removed from the front bench due to refusing to remove the post

For me Starmers acted swiftly and appropriately

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

The inference is a bit of a stretch though.

It may well be that Israeli's taught them the tactic, but nowhere does it suggest they only use it on certain people.

Maybe someone could find evidence that Israeli's only use it on Palestinians or US police only use it on minorities, but even if that were the case that sentence doesn't imply it. If you think it does it says more about your own opinions rather than the actual content.

 

[Nick]

The inference is a bit of a stretch though.

It may well be that Israeli's taught them the tactic, but nowhere does it suggest they only use it on certain people.

Maybe someone could find evidence that Israeli's only use it on Palestinians or US police only use it on minorities, but even if that were the case that sentence doesn't imply it. If you think it does it says more about your own opinions rather than the actual content.

I mean there's literally loads of videos on YouTube of "police Krav Maga" training that shows people being trained in restraint which includes a knee on the neck that looks very much like what the copper did to George Floyd.



Again, I am not saying that the Jews specially trained that exact copper to kneel on necks of black people and kill as many as he could. Thats the bat shit mental thing about it all.

 

[Grendel]

So it's not a racist, islamaphobic conspiracy theory then?

I mean, you only need to see how it's been pushed by the media and you can see from shmeee's original reply (Which he has now had a change of view on):



Now it's been explained, I can see "why" somebody from Labour might not have been allowed to even go near an article which mentions Israel in a sentence but it's not really right.



It's also not a conspiracy theory, if it's offensive to talk about and people want to pretend it's made up then they should probably look at banning it.

Robinson wants to convey a message all Muslims are terrorists. The old hard left want to convey a message Jews are racist authoritarian and dangerous.

Look at the Zarah Sultana. She said if she could kill 3 people it would be George Bush Tony Blair and the Israeli PM

That’s an odd choice isn’t it? Not the China leader, Mugawbe or another African despot, not the North Korean dynasty, not Putin and not the Saudi Prince or other brutal Middle East regimes?

Odd choice isn’t it?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Debatable. It all hinged on when we would go into lockdown. I must have missed that piece in the last labour manifesto.

I think it was a combination of:
1. Not going into lockdown early enough
2. Not restricting incoming passengers to quarantine/test
3. Not protecting care homes where a significant number of deaths have occurred.

I reckon 1 and 2 would probably have been roughly a similar approach with Corbyn dithering on the first and the F0M issue on the second with Brexit.

3 however I think they'd have done a better job of and this in itself would've reduced the death count significantly.

Will never be able to know one way or the other but that's my instinct.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Robinson wants to convey a message all Muslims are terrorists. The old hard left want to convey a message Jews are racist authoritarian and dangerous.

Look at the Zarah Sultana. She said if she could kill 3 people it would be George Bush Tony Blair and the Israeli PM

That’s an odd choice isn’t it? Not the China leader, Mugawbe or another African despot, not the North Korean dynasty, not Putin and not the Saudi Prince or other brutal Middle East regimes?

Odd choice isn’t it?

Sultana is an appropriate surname for that fruitcake.