Religious intolerance (3 Viewers)

[dancers lance]

Out of interest, are you an 'Evolution-ist'? God is GOD, He is not answerable to your human bitterness and indifference. Big fan of Dawkins, by any chance?

'god is god'.........well that's me schooled, i might as well just give up.......but i won't. I trust that when you say 'god' you are talking about the christo - judeo version of the celestial dictator? the version that you have been indoctrinated into believing as a child? can I ask, do you believe in all the other god's? Mythras, Thor, Wotan, Zeus the great African sun god? (I could go on for hours) Of course you don't, but why not? do you have the best god?

I believe in facts, reason, science and evidence, everything that religious types have to ignore, or attack, as it directly shows the faith based religious believe system for what it is, an empty cup.

I don't believe in god for the same reason you don't still believe in Father Xmas.

 

---

[shmmeee]

"When you understand why you don't believe in all the other gods, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."

An atheist just believes in one less god than a religious person.

 

[dancers lance]

"When you understand why you don't believe in all the other gods, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."

An atheist just believes in one less god than a religious person.

All religious people are 99% atheist as they do not believe (are not allowed to believe) in other deities, as you say, atheists just go one god further.

 

[dancers lance]

Whilst I agree with lots of what you have said as a non-believer myself, I wouldn't ask for my daughter to be excluded from things like RE. Apart from not wanting her to be marginalised or alienated from other classmates, I think pushing that on her is in itself brain-washing and no different to those who preach religion. I want her to gather all of that information for herself and as she grows up with her own rounded and rational thinking, hope that she comes to that path in her own time, but if she doesn't and chooses a different path, then that's fine too if it's her choice.

I think we can set examples and there is of course no right text book way to bring up children, but my view is that respect is a two way thing and whilst I will promote our values and beliefs that I expect her to respect, I also want her strong minded and willed enough to come to her own conclusions.

Whilst I agree with lots of what you have said as a non-believer myself, I wouldn't ask for my daughter to be excluded from things like RE. Apart from not wanting her to be marginalised or alienated from other classmates, I think pushing that on her is in itself brain-washing and no different to those who preach religion. I want her to gather all of that information for herself and as she grows up with her own rounded and rational thinking, hope that she comes to that path in her own time, but if she doesn't and chooses a different path, then that's fine too if it's her choice.

I think we can set examples and there is of course no right text book way to bring up children, but my view is that respect is a two way thing and whilst I will promote our values and beliefs that I expect her to respect, I also want her strong minded and willed enough to come to her own conclusions.

I have never forced my atheism on my children, they have just been raised without religious stupidity in their lives, if raising children to question everything, to be the best person you can be, not because you fear punishment by some book if you aren't, but because that's just what being a good person is about, to never take anything on face value, and to ask for evidence when faced with a fantastical proposition is 'brain washing' then, i'm afraid, I'm guilty.

 

[covcity4life]

Looking up at sky wouldnt tell you about solar systems and other planets really would it. I mean yeh there would be theories but thebexact same ones we have now that have been proven correct?

Hmmmm

 

[Otis]

The only gods I believe in are the footballing ones I'm hoping shine down on us today at 11.30 for the Checkatrade Trophy draw.

 

[trevelfarandwide]

'god is god'.........well that's me schooled, i might as well just give up.......but i won't. I trust that when you say 'god' you are talking about the christo - judeo version of the celestial dictator? the version that you have been indoctrinated into believing as a child? can I ask, do you believe in all the other god's? Mythras, Thor, Wotan, Zeus the great African sun god? (I could go on for hours) Of course you don't, but why not? do you have the best god?

I believe in facts, reason, science and evidence, everything that religious types have to ignore, or attack, as it directly shows the faith based religious believe system for what it is, an empty cup.

I don't believe in god for the same reason you don't still believe in Father Xmas.

Hahaha, what a gigantic ego you have, sir. Assuming all is under the oracle of your knowledge and 'intuition'. Until you address the ground-shattering flaws in your logic, then I'll simply have to educate you. And for your information, not that I have to tell you, I was Born Again into Christ; He found me, not vice versa. I was Atheistic up until the age of 33. Bet that widened your eyes a bit.

Funny isn't it, you reel off 'god' names like no tomorrow, when you do not truly know that 100% of all 'idolistic' gods are Pagan. These are idols, sir, not gods. Ok?

There is only One Creator. One God. It is very simple, and your ego may mock me, but it really is that simple. Ok? Darwin wants you believe you're an ape, so you go ahead and believe that.

I believe that facts and 'science' are pretty much theoretic proponents pushed as incontrovertible fact by the Elite Class of society, to serve an agenda of misinformation and deception. This is a widely held belief, but please, feel free to call me a conspiracy nut or a tin foil hat wearing numpty. It really amuses me when people do that, considering the facts they crave are there to see, if their blind eyes would just look.

Oh I do believe in Father Christmas, indeed, although not in the way you imagine; did you realise he is the poster boy for the Pagan festival of Saturnalia, that masquerades as Christmas? Look it up.

During Saturnalia they'd cut pine trees down, take them home, and feast on the magic mushrooms found on their root branch. Again, look it up, the ties to this perverse festival and modern day Christmas are inextricable. Pagans would act hedonistically for weeks and even get away with murder during this festival, so pardon me,
Christmas has fuck all to do with The Messiah, LOOK UP THE FACTS YOURSELF, since you love facts and reason so much.
It's a festival in the guise of Christ worship, whereby the Pagan majority celebrate the 'birth' of all of their deities/idols. Also, Christ was born during September, again if you do the research, the facts you love are there. Did you know Horus is often used as a mocking parallel by Pagans to describe Christ, and His life, death and resurrection? All facts. You love them, find them.

Please don't assume you have the ability to disprove anything I know, feel and believe in. You don't. Respect goes a long way, even for a guy like yourself who believes in absolutely nothing.

 

[Captain Dart]

Hahaha, what a gigantic ego you have, sir. Assuming all is under the oracle of your knowledge and 'intuition'. Until you address the ground-shattering flaws in your logic, then I'll simply have to educate you. And for your information, not that I have to tell you, I was Born Again into Christ; He found me, not vice versa. I was Atheistic up until the age of 33. Bet that widened your eyes a bit.

Funny isn't it, you reel off 'god' names like no tomorrow, when you do not truly know that 100% of all 'idolistic' gods are Pagan. These are idols, sir, not gods. Ok?

There is only One Creator. One God. It is very simple, and your ego may mock me, but it really is that simple. Ok? Darwin wants you believe you're an ape, so you go ahead and believe that.

I believe that facts and 'science' are pretty much theoretic proponents pushed as incontrovertible fact by the Elite Class of society, to serve an agenda of misinformation and deception. This is a widely held belief, but please, feel free to call me a conspiracy nut or a tin foil hat wearing numpty. It really amuses me when people do that, considering the facts they crave are there to see, if their blind eyes would just look.

Oh I do believe in Father Christmas, indeed, although not in the way you imagine; did you realise he is the poster boy for the Pagan festival of Saturnalia, that masquerades as Christmas? Look it up.

During Saturnalia they'd cut pine trees down, take them home, and feast on the magic mushrooms found on their root branch. Again, look it up, the ties to this perverse festival and modern day Christmas are inextricable. Pagans would act hedonistically for weeks and even get away with murder during this festival, so pardon me,
Christmas has fuck all to do with The Messiah, LOOK UP THE FACTS YOURSELF, since you love facts and reason so much.
It's a festival in the guise of Christ worship, whereby the Pagan majority celebrate the 'birth' of all of their deities/idols. Also, Christ was born during September, again if you do the research, the facts you love are there. Did you know Horus is often used as a mocking parallel by Pagans to describe Christ, and His life, death and resurrection? All facts. You love them, find them.

Please don't assume you have the ability to disprove anything I know, feel and believe in. You don't. Respect goes a long way, even for a guy like yourself who believes in absolutely nothing.

What's inferior about polytheistic religions? Most of India follow religions like that, are you saying you know better?

PS there are not facts, the Bible is an outrageous set of claims it is proof of nothing, it is highly contradictory and has been manipulated by many powerful people, particularly Roman Emperors.

 

[trevelfarandwide]

What's inferior about polytheistic religions? Most of India follow religions like that, are you saying you know better?

PS there are not facts, the Bible is an outrageous set of claims it is proof of nothing, it is highly contradictory and has been manipulated by many powerful people, particularly Roman Emperors.

Did I say I knew better? Don't make such absurd assumptions, and stop fishing for bites, please. To my knowledge, acquired through unconventional avenues of research, such deities you and your pal dancer's lance speak of are Paganistic in origin: they are idols that represent supernatural/esoteric 'forces'. I respect everyone and their various forms of faith, but those who believe in nothing are really pushing the boundaries of decency and credibility.

The Bible is outrageous...ok, this is where you go from a debate to trolling. If you have read it yourself, and absorbed it's hidden meanings and overt guidance, you would not make such a remark.
Besides, you'll find that it was Emperor Constantine, a Catholic, who 'founded' The Vatican, enacted the split from Orthodox Christianity and paved the way for it's domination over Christianity for centuries to come. You are making a fundamental mistake: The Bible is the word of God, spoken through various prophets, it has nothing to do with Catholic doctrines or canons. Heard the one about Guy Fawkes, a Catholic mandate and the true plot to destroy the KJV Bible production and kill all of the noted scholars and linguists who were working on it?

Unless you are open to the possibility of Christ, that he lived and died to bridge the gap between us (the sinful flesh) and The Heavenly Father, you will not understand anything I say. I pray you will, though. You will also note, and this is documented, that God Himself 'changed' from The Old Testament to The New; gone were the harsh, rigid, terrifying words and commands, in place of a God with a renewed understanding of the flesh he created.

If you do anything in life, mate, I implore you to discard this Atheistic doctrine like a filthy rag...not saying convert, cos you won't, but I get nothing but ridicule and scorn by telling you and anyone else that I've felt the presence of God, through The Holy Spirit, and it's as real as anything I have felt. I still have a long journey to reach salvation, but I'm trying.

Whatever our differences, whatever my own shortcomings, I will respect you and your views. Which isn't to say I fit into the stereotypical view of a Christian, because I don't; we are not wimpy, delusional gay-haters who are self-righteous to the extreme, that's not true Christianity...and this is where I stop debating this topic, because nothing will come of it but discord and nastiness.

 

[Astute]

I respect everyone and their various forms of faith, but those who believe in nothing are really pushing the boundaries of decency and credibility.

I admired you for your beliefs and reasoning until this comment.

Your beliefs go against mine. Mine are similar to many of the most intelligent people on earth. But I don't go insulting people who do believe in God.

So who is or was he? Where did he come from? Why is there so much bad in the world? A lot of the bad is caused by religion.

Do you think that the planet that we live on holds the only form of life? If not do you think that we are the most intelligent?

Some very intelligent people think that we could just be an experiment or game. To you it sounds improbable. To them your beliefs are improbable. Who is right? Neither can prove anything. So I sit somewhere in the middle. I don't insult either side. But the vast majority are sure that we are not the only living beings or the most intelligent. I agree with this.

 

[covcity4life]

Did I say I knew better? Don't make such absurd assumptions, and stop fishing for bites, please. To my knowledge, acquired through unconventional avenues of research, such deities you and your pal dancer's lance speak of are Paganistic in origin: they are idols that represent supernatural/esoteric 'forces'. I respect everyone and their various forms of faith, but those who believe in nothing are really pushing the boundaries of decency and credibility.

The Bible is outrageous...ok, this is where you go from a debate to trolling. If you have read it yourself, and absorbed it's hidden meanings and overt guidance, you would not make such a remark.
Besides, you'll find that it was Emperor Constantine, a Catholic, who 'founded' The Vatican, enacted the split from Orthodox Christianity and paved the way for it's domination over Christianity for centuries to come. You are making a fundamental mistake: The Bible is the word of God, spoken through various prophets, it has nothing to do with Catholic doctrines or canons. Heard the one about Guy Fawkes, a Catholic mandate and the true plot to destroy the KJV Bible production and kill all of the noted scholars and linguists who were working on it?

Unless you are open to the possibility of Christ, that he lived and died to bridge the gap between us (the sinful flesh) and The Heavenly Father, you will not understand anything I say. I pray you will, though. You will also note, and this is documented, that God Himself 'changed' from The Old Testament to The New; gone were the harsh, rigid, terrifying words and commands, in place of a God with a renewed understanding of the flesh he created.

If you do anything in life, mate, I implore you to discard this Atheistic doctrine like a filthy rag...not saying convert, cos you won't, but I get nothing but ridicule and scorn by telling you and anyone else that I've felt the presence of God, through The Holy Spirit, and it's as real as anything I have felt. I still have a long journey to reach salvation, but I'm trying.

Whatever our differences, whatever my own shortcomings, I will respect you and your views. Which isn't to say I fit into the stereotypical view of a Christian, because I don't; we are not wimpy, delusional gay-haters who are self-righteous to the extreme, that's not true Christianity...and this is where I stop debating this topic, because nothing will come of it but discord and nastiness.

dont leave thread please. i am very interested to hear more about your experience with god

some atheists will always be like that, they see it as a badge of honor not to beleive. each to their own i say but atheists always seem to want to mock eevryone else and then say"ooh dont push your beleifs on me" lol. idiots

anyway do you mind sharing info on your experiences please? i am abit like you 34. pretty much atheist until 2-3 years ago where i just start thinking more about this world and the meaning of life etc.

look forward to hearing from you.

 

[Astute]

dont leave thread please. i am very interested to hear more about your experience with god

some atheists will always be like that, they see it as a badge of honor not to beleive. each to their own i say but atheists always seem to want to mock eevryone else and then say"ooh dont push your beleifs on me" lol. idiots

anyway do you mind sharing info on your experiences please? i am abit like you 34. pretty much atheist until 2-3 years ago where i just start thinking more about this world and the meaning of life etc.

look forward to hearing from you.

I am atheist. What problem do you have with my thoughts?

You say badge of honour. What about people with religious beliefs that try to force their thoughts on to you?

 

[covcity4life]

i dont have a problem with atheists at all. just the ones that mock religion

same goes for those that aggressivly push religion on those that dont want it. i havnt seen that happen in this thread though.

 

[Astute]

i dont have a problem with atheists at all. just the ones that mock religion

same goes for those that aggressivly push religion on those that dont want it. i havnt seen that happen in this thread though.

Or someone that mocks me for being athiest?

 

[covcity4life]

Or someone that mocks me for being athiest?

yeah i didnt like that line tbh. but im more interested in his experiences right now so didnt bring it up!

 

[Nick]

How did you see god?

 

[Monners]

He will be saying the fossil record is just a load of bones that is only 6000 years old next. And the denial of the scientific evidence on how the universes was created is quite frankly bizarre. I was brought up to believe that the Bible was the word of God (" This is the word of the Lord" as is said in a Catholic Mass) - it is merely a written text, written by humans (male humans). I actually find it fascinating, but cannot take the leap of faith required to accept it as the word of God.

I do actually fully respect those that have a belief (family members included), but I don't like being preached at by people, particularly those that counter any questions or doubt by taking some kind of high moral stance - I had enough of that from the "Men in Black" when I was growing up.

 

[covcity4life]

how was the universe created?

 

[Monners]

how was the universe created?

The Big Bang as it has been named.

There are some very informative and interesting texts on the subject. One called "The Universe in Your Hand" is well worth a read.

 

[covcity4life]

how did the big bang come about

 

[Otis]

how was the universe created?

Don't want to go round in circles here, but how was God created? What was there before God? And If nothing, where did he suddenly come from?

He can't just have always been there can he? For trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of centuries he just sat twiddling his thumbs, but then he just suddenly decided he would create life?

 

[covcity4life]

i dont have the answers otis just like you dont

some put faith in god
some put faith in science

but none can prove they are right.

what happened before big bang? what makes an atom?what made the thing that made an atom? what made the thing that made the thing that made the atom?

etc etc

 

[Otis]

i dont have the answers otis just like you dont

some put faith in god
some put faith in science

but none can prove they are right.

what happened before big bang? what makes an atom?what made the thing that made an atom? what made the thing that made the thing that made the atom?

etc etc

Don't! You will frazzle my brain!!

 

[Monners]

how did the big bang come about

Like I say, do a bit of reading of the scientific literature. I have pointed you in the direction of one useful text which explains this. (and how atoms atoms created)

 

[covcity4life]

and what created the thing that created the atom?

im not trying to troll you. just saying that no sides can be proven either way

religious books written by man
science all performed by man

error can exist everywhere

have faith
but dont tell people that your way is 100% right

thats my only point

 

[Astute]

How did you see god?

Maybe something to do with all the drugs he took.

I once watched someone running around for ages because he was getting chased by gremlins. The look on his face was of pure horror. One of the funniest things I have ever seen.

 

[Monners]

and what created the thing that created the atom?

im not trying to troll you. just saying that no sides can be proven either way

religious books written by man
science all performed by man

error can exist everywhere

have faith
but dont tell people that your way is 100% right

thats my only point

The science is based on theory which is tested via hypotheses. The results are then written up, refernced, peered reviewed and published in academic journals. They are not made up. Again, read up on the questions you ask. The text I have mentioned is well written and fully referenced.

Think of it this way, Newton's theory of gravity and Einstein's on relativity have been tested and proven to be correct. The same applies to the formation of the universe

 

[covcity4life]

The science is based on theory which is tested via hypotheses. The results are then written up, refernced, peered reviewed and published in academic journals. They are not made up. Again, read up on the questions you ask. The text I have mentioned is well written and fully referenced.

Think of it this way, Newton's theory of gravity and Einstein's on relativity have been tested and proven to be correct. The same applies to the formation of the universe

Newton's law of universal gravitation states that a particle attracts every other particle in the universe using a force that is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.

what made a particle
what made the thing that made the particle

this universe is ridiculously mind blowing when you think about it and saying faith in god cant explain it but clever humans can is absurd

one day maybe we will get the answers,maybe we wont. but right now as of today there is no FACT to how universe was created.

p.s another way of thinking about it is that einstein and newton worked out how god has manufactured this world to work as it does. not saying this is what happened just saying its not straightforward as you suggest

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Praise the lord for this thread

 

[trevelfarandwide]

Maybe something to do with all the drugs he took.

I once watched someone running around for ages because he was getting chased by gremlins. The look on his face was of pure horror. One of the funniest things I have ever seen.

Lets get this crystal clear. I did not MOCK you personally for being an Atheist. It is merely my opinion that someone who places all of their faith in Science, and the likes of Richard Dawkins et al, are generally extremely derisive towards the existence of a creator, and the supernatural hierarchy of this existence we are in. Dawkins, especially.

Did I use a word or phrase to mock you directly? No. In sight of our conversation the other day, you have turned like the wind against me because of my disliking of those who brazenly and offensively believe in nothing.

You all ask so many questions as if I know the answers to the mystery of the universe, and if I can't answer them, there's more mockery and derisory remarks against my faith. Do I care? No. But it's a pretty bad show, to be honest.

Do I have all of your answers, Astute? No. I've tried to be as passive and as innocuous as possible in this thread, and I STILL get jumped on over a simple remark that those who overtly believe in nothing and mock the existence of The Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ openly, are not worth my respect. This does not mean I hate them, or will openly insult them.

And pardon me for saying this, you yourself smoked weed my ol' pal, so let's not be hypocritical - I've been clean for over 3 years, I openly admit I had a few drug problems in my life, so for you to comment thus is obnoxious and spiteful.

I'm done with this topic, peace to you all, and God bless.

covcity4life: If you want to know more about my experiences, feel free to message me, mate. No probs.

 

[Gazolba]

We should have a war to settle whose God is best.

 

[trevelfarandwide]

I admired you for your beliefs and reasoning until this comment.

Your beliefs go against mine. Mine are similar to many of the most intelligent people on earth. But I don't go insulting people who do believe in God.

So who is or was he? Where did he come from? Why is there so much bad in the world? A lot of the bad is caused by religion.

Do you think that the planet that we live on holds the only form of life? If not do you think that we are the most intelligent?

Some very intelligent people think that we could just be an experiment or game. To you it sounds improbable. To them your beliefs are improbable. Who is right? Neither can prove anything. So I sit somewhere in the middle. I don't insult either side. But the vast majority are sure that we are not the only living beings or the most intelligent. I agree with this.

I addressed these points in my previous post, however I'd to elaborate on them a little, because to turn on someone so quickly over a simple perspective is pretty amazing.

Our beliefs clash, but have I belittled you or your beliefs in any way, by stating that offensive, Creator-bashing Atheists are not credible or respectable to me? Have I forced my faith on you, or anyone? Nope. I gain nothing by openly declaring my faith.
I dislike aggressive, self-righteous 'Christians' who preach, demean and oppress anyone who does not fall into line with their doctrine. Religion, of any denomination, is supposed to be peaceful and inspiring at it's core; this is how I'm trying to live.

To then expect me to answer your unanswerable questions is bizarre; as an Atheist, can you answer the questions you pose to me, Astute? This is a genuine query.

I do not mock or insult anyone for their beliefs, however it's my right to at least dislike those who aggressively and publicly renounce a Creator, The Living God, because I've experienced His presence, and it is the antithesis of my core faith.

If I've caused offense, I apologise. Perhaps my wording capabilities at 7-isAM after a crap night's sleep was misleading or something. Like I said, I've put my points across, I'm out. Peace, all. God bless.

 

[shmmeee]

how did the big bang come about

How did God come about?

 

[Monners]

Newton's law of universal gravitation states that a particle attracts every other particle in the universe using a force that is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.

what made a particle
what made the thing that made the particle

this universe is ridiculously mind blowing when you think about it and saying faith in god cant explain it but clever humans can is absurd

one day maybe we will get the answers,maybe we wont. but right now as of today there is no FACT to how universe was created.

p.s another way of thinking about it is that einstein and newton worked out how god has manufactured this world to work as it does. not saying this is what happened just saying its not straightforward as you suggest

I am not saying that its straight forward. The opposite in fact (hence the testing o hypotheses and peer review). And yes it is law theory - teach me to rush, although the law became so through testing theory! Like I suggest, do some reading.

 

[Sick Boy]

If religion was a new concept today, those practising it would be deemed as suffering from mental illness.