Scotland v England (1 Viewer)

[Grendel]

Lucky equaliser, southgate out

The premier league means the managers job is impossible.

The same happened with cricket in the 70's and early 80's when an influx of overseas players made development impossible.

We have no quality players as the premier league can't be bothered to develop.

I can't even be bothered to watch games now and the players who are picked aren't interested

 

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[Otis]

England won that's the main thing. Another 3 points in the bag.

 

[clint van damme]

The premier league means the managers job is impossible.

The same happened with cricket in the 70's and early 80's when an influx of overseas players made development impossible.

We have no quality players as the premier league can't be bothered to develop.

I can't even be bothered to watch games now and the players who are picked aren't interested

do you think timing played a part in what was a poor game? Playing a big game after a 2-3 week break at the end of a long season?

 

[CJ_covblaze]

The premier league means the managers job is impossible.

The same happened with cricket in the 70's and early 80's when an influx of overseas players made development impossible.

We have no quality players as the premier league can't be bothered to develop.

I can't even be bothered to watch games now and the players who are picked aren't interested

Wouldn't say we don't have any quality players. Walker, Rose, Dier, Dele, Kane and Lallana would get into most international sides (depending on their system).

I agree about the Premier League. We need a winter break introduced. There was a study done a couple of years ago which showed that if you play in a league without one you're 400 times more likely to be injured either before or during a tournament. That obviously goes for both our players and the foreigners. The only way it could be implemented efficiently though is if there is a complete shut down for 2-4 weeks. No training. No overseas trips to play games.

 

[Sick Boy]

The premier league means the managers job is impossible.

The same happened with cricket in the 70's and early 80's when an influx of overseas players made development impossible.

We have no quality players as the premier league can't be bothered to develop.

I can't even be bothered to watch games now and the players who are picked aren't interested

IMO it's more to do with a lack of investment at grassroots level compared to other countries.

 

[Macca]

Pure dog shit football

 

[Otis]

The U20's look a very talented lot. Let's hope they can make the step up to full international.

 

[Otis]

For anyone who didn't watch the semi-final, England looked a much better team technically than the Italians, which is encouraging.

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

Wouldn't say we don't have any quality players. Walker, Rose, Dier, Dele, Kane and Lallana would get into most international sides (depending on their system).

I agree about the Premier League. We need a winter break introduced. There was a study done a couple of years ago which showed that if you play in a league without one you're 400 times more likely to be injured either before or during a tournament. That obviously goes for both our players and the foreigners. The only way it could be implemented efficiently though is if there is a complete shut down for 2-4 weeks. No training. No overseas trips to play games.

The top premier league teams couldn't help themselves could they though they'd be off to the far east and the USA playing friendlies,It's all about money CJ.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

For anyone who didn't watch the semi-final, England looked a much better team technically than the Italians, which is encouraging.

Very encouraging. That side is very promising.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

The top premier league teams couldn't help themselves could they though they'd be off to the far east and the USA playing friendlies,It's all about money CJ.

Just prevent them from doing it. Financial sanctions won't work. Points is an easy one. Moto GP and F1 manage it. For an allotted amount of time the factories are shut down and team staff aren't even allowed to email each other.

 

[bringbackrattles]

Let's face facts here England just aren't a good International side. It was a poor match contested between two average teams. Yes we may have a few talented players but at International level that means little.Okay we go to Russia in the Finals but we all know it'll end in abject failure again as it always does.
As for Hart in goal he goes to pieces in an England top and you're just waiting for a clanger or two !

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Yep. Too much fancy Dan, tappy, tappy, flicky, flicky football that consistently didn't work all evening.

Added to that there was a constant lack of creativity from the middle of the park with both Dier and Livermore in defensive roles. Sloppy passing too from the pair and a lot of losing possession.

When Dier first came into the England side I thought we had uncovered a gem, but lately he has been distinctly average and as for Livermore, I simply cannot see an international player in there anywhere.

Rashford had a poor game too.

Draw was a fair result. Scotland didn't threaten at all until those two free kicks. England had enough chances to bury the game (two good saves, clearance off the line, hit the post )

Draw the fairest result.

The fact we took as you indicate - a decidedly defensive approach in midfield against a renowned free-scoring Scotland - says it all really.

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[SkyblueBazza]

Not as if it is a surprise he gets easily beaten on 30yd free kicks. Wish they'd try an alternative goalie.

They did...he broke a leg, but is coming back...hopefully

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[SkyblueBazza]

I don't think you are giving Scotland enough credit.
Every time an English player got the ball they were surrounded by three Scottish players. Scotland pressed really well.

Yes, I agree that Scotland deserve credit.

I also think the Scots harrying approach has been mildly-effective against even Germany (as in Germany narrowly won) in the last year or so. But overall this puts us together with the footballing greats like Lithuania & Poland. Which, in truth, IS the right level given our tournament performances for the last 15yrs

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[SkyblueBazza]

do you think timing played a part in what was a poor game? Playing a big game after a 2-3 week break at the end of a long season?

And Scotland had the edge there because..?

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[Otis]

And Scotland had the edge there because..?

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Because they are busy tossing cabers the same time England players are just tossing themselves off?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

IMO it's more to do with a lack of investment at grassroots level compared to other countries.

Same thing G means ultimately.

The Premier League is simply about big business & making money for the top 6. The rest simply make the numbers up usually...but make for a reasonably healthy business. PL attitude to the England is simply one of tolerance. They robably couldn't give a damn whether England exists. Otherwise they might do more to accommodate the national side having more training sessions together amongst other things. The tail is wagging the dog!

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[SkyblueBazza]

For anyone who didn't watch the semi-final, England looked a much better team technically than the Italians, which is encouraging.

Until we play the Italians

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[clint van damme]

And Scotland had the edge there because..?

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I was referring to the overall quality of the game.

 

[chiefdave]

Wouldn't say we don't have any quality players. Walker, Rose, Dier, Dele, Kane and Lallana would get into most international sides (depending on their system).

We have quality players and have had going back a number of years but they never seem to be able to produce when it counts. How often have we breezed through qualification and then done nothing in the tournament itself while teams with weaker squads progress.

For me grassroots is a huge problem. The lack of pitches and coaches. The other problem is we consistently have teams who perform at the various youth levels then the players get scooped up by PL teams and the progression ends. Dion was on the TV the other day talking about how his move from Cambridge to Man Utd was a big deal as at the time players didn't jump divisions like that, you'd up a division at a time getting games and proving yourself. These days the slightest bit of promise and you're signed up before you've even played a full season, in some cases before you've even played a game.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Jake Livermore shouldn't be nowhere near an England squad let alone the starting eleven

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

The U20's look a very talented lot. Let's hope they can make the step up to full international.

Most of them will struggle to make the transition to first team. Look at solanke, one of the star men for England and already been binned off by Chelsea

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Until we play the Italians

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They're not that good. Not much better than us if at all. Both teams are some way behind the likes of Germany, Belgium and France.

We have quality players and have had going back a number of years but they never seem to be able to produce when it counts. How often have we breezed through qualification and then done nothing in the tournament itself while teams with weaker squads progress.

For me grassroots is a huge problem. The lack of pitches and coaches. The other problem is we consistently have teams who perform at the various youth levels then the players get scooped up by PL teams and the progression ends. Dion was on the TV the other day talking about how his move from Cambridge to Man Utd was a big deal as at the time players didn't jump divisions like that, you'd up a division at a time getting games and proving yourself. These days the slightest bit of promise and you're signed up before you've even played a full season, in some cases before you've even played a game.

Bang on the money.

Jake Livermore shouldn't be nowhere near an England squad let alone the starting eleven

Christ knows why he started. The Ox should've. It's where he's played all season. Tbf he certainly did well when he came on further forward though!

 

[Otis]

Most of them will struggle to make the transition to first team. Look at solanke, one of the star men for England and already been binned off by Chelsea

Binned off by Chelsea, yet picked up by Liverpool.

Hardly a step down at all really and it may well be simply because he will get more of a chance of first team football at Liverpool.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I was referring to the overall quality of the game.

Ah right - thought you were making excuses for us not beating them like we should - quite comfortably if we have any realistic ambitions

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[SkyblueBazza]

Binned off by Chelsea, yet picked up by Liverpool.

Hardly a step down at all really and it may well be simply because he will get more of a chance of first team football at Liverpool.

I disagree Otis...only 3 places...but 17pts is big step down in terms of level

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[Covstu]

I disagree Otis...only 3 places...but 17pts is big step down in terms of level

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Not when it comes to first team experience. This lad will grow twice as much at Liverpool

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Not when it comes to first team experience. This lad will grow twice as much at Liverpool

Yep fair point...he gets to play with & against better quality than in Chelsea reserves

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[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Binned off by Chelsea, yet picked up by Liverpool.

Hardly a step down at all really and it may well be simply because he will get more of a chance of first team football at Liverpool.

Chelsea are consistently in the champions league and challenging for the big titles domestic and Europe. Liverpool are not, it looks a pretty big step down.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Yep fair point...he gets to play with & against better quality than in Chelsea reserves

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But it would be even better if he was given that chance at Chelsea rather than Liverpool.

He was player of the tournament and not wanted by any of England's most successful clubs over the last 15 years. Thats the issue here

 

[Otis]

Chelsea are consistently in the champions league and challenging for the big titles domestic and Europe. Liverpool are not, it looks a pretty big step down.

Disagree. Wouldn't say it was a 'big step' down. And absolutely no point being where he is hardly going to get a look in. Just how many young homegrown players get to play in th Chelsea first team?

Liverpool are much more adept at giving young players a chance.

I don't think it is being perceived by the media as a big step down. Just a move to where he will get a better chance.

 

[Otis]

And also, aren't we going off on a bit of a tangent? English players are much more likely to play for England at Liverpool than they are at Chelsea. Chelsea notoriously constantly go foreign in their recruitment.

If we are talking about young English players coming through and playing for their country then I don't think we can ask for much more than them playing at the top end of the Premier League and Liverpool are indeed in the Champions League this coming season anyway.

 

[Covstu]

And also, aren't we going off on a bit of a tangent? English players are much more likely to play for England at Liverpool than they are at Chelsea. Chelsea notoriously constantly go foreign in their recruitment.

If we are talking about young English players coming through and playing for their country then I don't think we can ask for much more than them playing at the top end of the Premier League and Liverpool are indeed in the Champions League this coming season anyway.

Agree but I think its an element of Chelsea wanting the readymade finished article whereas Liverpool would be more patient with someone with raw talent. If that was English or foreign I don't think it matters to them. The only way Chelsea will change is to change the rules on foreign intakes (maybe Brexit will help!!).
The gulf isn't that big in my opinion, they have CL football equally and both play at the top of the premier league. He wont win as much as if he was at Chelsea but he will play 3 or 4 times as much. I can see Sturridge depart at some stage however.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Well that is exactly the point I'm making, its a direct criticism of Chelsea's policy and others alike. What chance do we have of producing the best senior players when our very best youth players can't play in our best teams.