Well on the plus side for me if it proves a popular decision for the centre and the centre right, which i think it is, Starmer will probably adopt as policy too.
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There’s a whole host of people on social media arguing she’s old enough to take responsibility for her actions at 15, whilst simultaneously saying that 16 is too young to be able to apply for a GRC.
Work that one out.
You're correct. Every one of those fuckwits that joined ISIS was 'programmed'. Its very bizarre people want to defend this girl, she's become a fucking victim in this thread. SBT madness.
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There's plenty above who sound like they are defending her tbf mate.Nobody is defending her - they're against the idea of removing citizenship from somebody due to something they have done and particularly something they did aged 15.
It’s more complicated than you’re making out. Nobody is defending her actions.There's plenty above who sound like they are defending her tbf mate.
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Starmer's answer in an interview referred to above was a bit odd, you'd have thought a KC would just say: "the Court will have made its decision based on the information in front of it, having not seen the papers I cannot possibly comment further" but instead he just said he was sure the court was correct. Such a weird lack of confidence in himself.
There's people putting their point across well, like Clint, then there's those giving a terrorist sympathy. Anyone who's not willfully blind can spot the difference in some of the posts above.It’s more complicated than you’re making out. Nobody is defending her actions.
- She was groomed and manipulated as a child.
- she shouldn’t have her citizenship removed.
- she should return to the UK to face a criminal court and be tried and punished for any crimes shes committed.
that’s the general gist of what people are saying
Not sure who you’re referring to there, but surely there’s a pretty big difference between being a terrorist sympathiser, and sympathising with someone losing their basic legal rights - even if they’ve done awful things. There’s no Shamima fan club here.There's people putting their point across well, like Clint, then there's those giving a terrorist sympathy. Anyone who's not willfully blind can spot the difference in some of the posts above.
Willfully blind it is then.Not sure who you’re referring to there, but surely there’s a pretty big difference between being a terrorist sympathiser, and sympathising with someone losing their basic legal rights - even if they’ve done awful things. There’s no Shamima fan club here.
So you think there are various people in this thread with genuine terrorist sympathies?Willfully blind it is then.
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Sympathies for a terrorist rather than terrorist sympathies, a subtle difference, but yes looks like it.So you think there are various people in this thread with genuine terrorist sympathies?
Likewise I think there’s a subtle difference between being concerned for our basic human rights, and laying awake all night worrying about poor Shemima. But if you’re just going to get called a secret ISIS lover either way then why bother.Sympathies for a terrorist rather than terrorist sympathies, a subtle difference, but yes looks like it.
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At 15 I was a little Twat smoking weed,, trying to buy knuckle dusters off ebay and sell them at school, and buying potassium nitrate online to make smoke bombs after reading the anarchist cookbook.She’s not old enough and 16 is too young for a GRC.
It’s the Venn diagram of people who think the Rotherham girls were groomed vs those who think Begum was that gets me. “15 year olds know what they’re doing” sounds awfully noncey to me.
At 15 I was a little Twat smoking weed,, trying to buy knuckle dusters off ebay and sell them at school, and buying potassium nitrate online to make smoke bombs after reading the anarchist cookbook.
I also egged an old blokes house cause he set his dog on us once.
All prickish stuff.
Never ever thought about going off to join a terrorist organisation though….
Also, didn’t she at 20 years old say that the Ariana grande concert killings were justified or something?
She’s absolute scum of the earth and I have no sympathy for her and don’t think she was too young to know what’s right and wrong, so don’t buy into the whole “oh poor thing was groomed” argument.
Should be brought back to the UK and tried though.
Likewise I think there’s a subtle difference between being concerned for our basic human rights, and laying awake all night worrying about poor Shemima. But if you’re just going to get called a secret ISIS lover either way then why bother.
I haven’t been following that one, sorry.I assume you disagree with the sanctions imposed on Graham Phillips without trial?
I haven’t been following that one, sorry.
Paid Russian troll gets sanctioned for being a paid Russian troll. Hardly the same.
Were you groomed by an older man?
Do you think the girls in Rotherham were responsible for their actions?
I like Shmmeee as a poster (most controversial thing I've written in this thread tbh) but the comparison is bonkers.The 12 year olds who were raped?
It's a fucking weird comparison.
What about child sex abuse victims who grow up to abuse children themselves? Ahhhh let them off. Get them round to babysit.
I like Shmmeee as a poster (most controversial thing I've written in this thread tbh) but the comparison is bonkers.
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I do feel the need to clarify Rotherham wasn't just 12yos but also 14, 15yis. Here's one Rotherham victim 'disgusted' as 'not ONE professional held to account' although we're going down a path of digression for no real reason really.The comparing to rape of minors isn’t especially helpful
I do feel the need to clarify Rotherham wasn't just 12yos but also 14, 15yis. Here's one Rotherham victim 'disgusted' as 'not ONE professional held to account' although we're going down a path of digression for no real reason really.
Anyway, it's worth noting that yesterday's judgement says:
"there was a credible case that Ms Begum was a victim of trafficking and sexual exploitation when she went to Syria in 2015, that did not stand in the way of the home secretary stripping her of British citizenship, because she had subsequently become a threat." So we're talking about her as an adult wrt the citizenship question.
And tbh that's why it's a bloody mess innit, somebody can have bad things done to them, it can explain why they became a bad person... but that knowledge doesn't stop them being a bad person.
No, and I agree with you there. Ultimately, she's our responsibility to deal with, however unpalatable that thought may be.It is an interesting discussion - my real point is governments should not decide without trial to remove people from their society
Shit argument do betterWere you groomed by an older man?
Do you think the girls in Rotherham were responsible for their actions?
The 12 year olds who were raped?
It's a fucking weird comparison.
What about child sex abuse victims who grow up to abuse children themselves? Ahhhh let them off. Get them round to babysit.
It’s genuinely hard to follow that last sentence, but has Phillips had his citizenship revoked?Well it is the same as there was no court trial but direct government action. I assume if Thatcher when MI5 were issues concerned regarding John McDonnell and the affiliation to the IRA you’d have been ok if that government froze his bank accounts and ultimately declared him on non citizen with no trial?
There would need to be some hard evidence that she really isn't a Bangladeshi citizen.I think it's a strange comparison as well, though as I said in an earlier post, a more like for like comparison is Rhiannan Rudd who did have charges dropped because it was deemed she was groomed.
And even then, even though there are similarities, as someone said every case needs to be dealt with on its own merit and I think Begums actions as an adult need taking into serious consideration.
Another point, what if Bangladesh wanted to wash their hands of a Bangladeshi wrong un and tried to foist them on us because they had British heritage? Would people be ok with that?
It’s genuinely hard to follow that last sentence, but has Phillips had his citizenship revoked?
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