Sheff United request (2 Viewers)

[Astute]

And you’ll be saying everyone should work for free so no business ever fails.

So should our club and others fold if they can't give pay rises like you say everyone should get?

So where did I say no business should ever fail? Sounds like you are making things up like you do when defending certain people from CCC.

 

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[shmmeee]

So should our club and others fold if they can't give pay rises like you say everyone should get?

So where did I say no business should ever fail? Sounds like you are making things up like you do when defending certain people from CCC.

Hahaha there it is. I’m just reductio ad absurdum like you are. You say I want all business to fail, I say you want no business to fail. Fun times.

Can you answer my question yet? What should a business do if the cost of raw materials goes up? Should it fold?

The only difference is you think individual humans are easier to bully than other suppliers.

 

[Astute]

Hahaha there it is. I’m just reducto as absurdium like you are. You say I want all business to fail, I say you want no business to fail. Fun times.

Can you answer my question yet? What should a business do if the cost of raw materials goes up? Should it fold?

So you ignore everything I say and pretend I said something else.

You said any company that cannot give massive pay rises should close. Correct or not?

Is CCFC a company?

Now back to what you asked.

If they can run at a profit everyone should keep their job. If they can't afford massive pay rises they should give what can be afforded. Same with extra costs. If it is a going concern it should stay open. If staff want even more they should look elsewhere instead of everyone losing their jobs.

And how about you defending certain people from CCC? I suppose all those you defend should also have massive pay rises and make everyone pay more council tax

 

[shmmeee]

So you ignore everything I say and pretend I said something else.

You said any company that cannot give massive pay rises should close. Correct or not?

Is CCFC a company?

Now back to what you asked.

If they can run at a profit everyone should keep their job. If they can't afford massive pay rises they should give what can be afforded. Same with extra costs. If it is a going concern it should stay open. If staff want even more they should look elsewhere instead of everyone losing their jobs.

And how about you defending certain people from CCC? I suppose all those you defend should also have massive pay rises and make everyone pay more council tax

Not sure what your obsession with CCC has to do with this. Feel free to start a new thread though if you want my views.

No I’ve not said that. I’ve said any company that can’t afford to pay their staff in line with inflation should raise prices to enable it. Same as if energy or steel or timber or any other resource needed by their business goes up in cost.

You think humans are in some way special and should be forced to accept below inflation rises when no other supplier would. And you want to play the “but the business” card when no other supplier would. If it’s an employee owned business that’s entirely different, but most aren’t.

 

[The Philosopher]

We are in extraordinary financial circumstances.

Increased energy costs have caused inflation; increased transport costs due to higher fuel costs for example have meant that pretty much everything costs more - food, clothes, cars and so on. Increased power costs have meant that steel is more expensive to make, I’m stating the obvious.

This could change should the Russia / Ukraine situation find a resolution. (No comment). Cheaper fuel might mean things being cheaper to move / produce again and costs could fall.

Extraordinary circumstances which might be temporary should be treated as such. Universal permanent wage rises might destabilise the economy when things otherwise settle in terms of energy costs. Too much disposable income creates inflation as people for example believe they can afford higher mortgages driving up house prices. The government would shortsightedly raise interest rates to cool the market.

The solution is probably to look at how industry deals with temporary price hikes - temporary fuel surcharges are added to invoices and contracts and reduce back when suitability dictates.

So, a solution might be to give state workers à temporary “cost of living fuel weighting” whilst energy prices and hence goods and services are temporarily high.

Non-government workers could be given a “furlough” type weighting of 10% top up whilst these extraordinary fuel costs impact. Once energy costs normalise and prices fall, inflation and hence interest rates can be managed better.

Old fashioned economics is old hat.

 

[Astute]

Not sure what your obsession with CCC has to do with this. Feel free to start a new thread though if you want my views.

No I’ve not said that. I’ve said any company that can’t afford to pay their staff in line with inflation should raise prices to enable it. Same as if energy or steel or timber or any other resource needed by their business goes up in cost.

You think humans are in some way special and should be forced to accept below inflation rises when no other supplier would. And you want to play the “but the business” card when no other supplier would. If it’s an employee owned business that’s entirely different, but most aren’t.

We know your views on those you know from CCC. Most on here agree you are totally wrong.

Will leave you to your thoughts. Had enough of you making it up as you go along.

 

[shmmeee]

We know your views on those you know from CCC. Most on here agree you are totally wrong.

Will leave you to your thoughts. Had enough of you making it up as you go along.

I’ll take that as an admission of defeat. Maybe you’re out of form after battling mackems for so long.

 

[shmmeee]

We are in extraordinary financial circumstances.

Increased energy costs have caused inflation; increased transport costs due to higher fuel costs for example have meant that pretty much everything costs more - food, clothes, cars and so on. Increased power costs have meant that steel is more expensive to make, I’m stating the obvious.

This could change should the Russia / Ukraine situation find a resolution. (No comment). Cheaper fuel might mean things being cheaper to move / produce again and costs could fall.

Extraordinary circumstances which might be temporary should be treated as such. Universal permanent wage rises might destabilise the economy when things otherwise settle in terms of energy costs. Too much disposable income creates inflation as people for example believe they can afford higher mortgages driving up house prices. The government would shortsightedly raise interest rates to cool the market.

The solution is probably to look at how industry deals with temporary price hikes - temporary fuel surcharges are added to invoices and contracts and reduce back when suitability dictates.

So, a solution might be to give state workers à temporary “cost of living fuel weighting” whilst energy prices and hence goods and services are temporarily high.

Non-government workers could be given a “furlough” type weighting of 10% top up whilst these extraordinary fuel costs impact. Once energy costs normalise and prices fall, inflation and hence interest rates can be managed better.

Old fashioned economics is old hat.

That’s fair enough. As I say if the government wants to step in to keep businesses afloat like it did during Covid then that’s what it’s there for. Personally I’d like to see it focused on bringing down the cost of housing and transportation and reducing energy costs through insulation and other means. But it’s a bit late for that now.

Government is there to see us through extraordinary circumstances and decide what is in the national interest to subsidise. But I don’t see anyone saying energy companies or other suppliers should take a loss for the greater good, just workers. Why is that?

 

[Grendel]

Hahaha there it is. I’m just reductio ad absurdum like you are. You say I want all business to fail, I say you want no business to fail. Fun times.

Can you answer my question yet? What should a business do if the cost of raw materials goes up? Should it fold?

The only difference is you think individual humans are easier to bully than other suppliers.

The answer to your question is the business probably will have to pass the increase onto the customer as the actual increase is likely to be far higher than the wage inflation and the margin reduction will make the business unsustainable in its present guise

Unless the government develops a robust plan to protect businesses from energy price increases many will go under anyway as some of the increases are eye watering

 

[The Philosopher]

That’s fair enough. As I say if the government wants to step in to keep businesses afloat like it did during Covid then that’s what it’s there for. Personally I’d like to see it focused on bringing down the cost of housing and transportation and reducing energy costs through insulation and other means. But it’s a bit late for that now.

Government is there to see us through extraordinary circumstances and decide what is in the national interest to subsidise. But I don’t see anyone saying energy companies or other suppliers should take a loss for the greater good, just workers. Why is that?

Yep. Energy companies should get a windfall tax to offset the “weighting / furlough” costs.

I also believe we should frack (ducks for cover) and use the proceeds to create a sovereign wealth fund to invest in permanent renewable. Swansea tidal for example. Short term pain long term gain.

 

[shmmeee]

The answer to your question is the business probably will have to pass the increase onto the customer as the actual increase is likely to be far higher than the wage inflation and the margin reduction will make the business unsustainable in its present guise

Unless the government develops a robust plan to protect businesses from energy price increases many will go under anyway as some of the increases are eye watering

Agree with your last paragraph. As I say the time to fix a lot of this was decades ago when we could have reduced heating needs and cheaper energy production that isn’t as sensitive to energy shocks, but these are structural things that take a long time, all we can really do now is subsidise energy.

Why do you think wage rises would lead to much higher prices? I’ve posted the research for my piece, especially in retail and leisure wage increases also increase your customer base.

Really I think this stuff only applies to government set wages, so public sector and minimum wage jobs. And competition would take care of the rest.

There’s been a lot of research on this in the states with the talk of a $15/hr minimum wage and the same concerns raised but I’m not sure it bears out in reality. Obviously that’s only minimum wage, but I don’t see why it would apply elsewhere:



https://docs.iza.org/dp1072.pdf

 

[Grendel]

Agree with your last paragraph. As I say the time to fix a lot of this was decades ago when we could have reduced heating needs and cheaper energy production that isn’t as sensitive to energy shocks, but these are structural things that take a long time, all we can really do now is subsidise energy.

Why do you think wage rises would lead to much higher prices? I’ve posted the research for my piece, especially in retail and leisure wage increases also increase your customer base.

Really I think this stuff only applies to government set wages, so public sector and minimum wage jobs. And competition would take care of the rest.

There’s been a lot of research on this in the states with the talk of a $15/hr minimum wage and the same concerns raised but I’m not sure it bears out in reality. Obviously that’s only minimum wage, but I don’t see why it would apply elsewhere:



View attachment 27702 https://docs.iza.org/dp1072.pdf

is the evidence the McDonald’s example?

 

[shmmeee]

is the evidence the McDonald’s example?

Ive posted the evidence. It’s a meta review of all existing research.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Safe to say this isn’t a football thread anymore so get it moved

 

[shmmeee]

@Nick @mark82

We need an admin in here because we can’t be trusted to not rise to bait. Can you split off the politics posts and leave the football ones?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

@Nick @mark82

We need an admin in here because we can’t be trusted to not rise to bait. Can you split off the politics posts and leave the football ones?

What, leave the opening two posts here, you mean?

 

[shmmeee]

I also don't agree with the big pile on that's feulling his responses, ya fannies

Its fun to be on the other side of one for once

 

[Astute]

I’ll take that as an admission of defeat. Maybe you’re out of form after battling mackems for so long.

Admission of defeat?

You want every business to close who can't afford massive pay increases. Our football club can't afford massive pay increases. We even had to sell a player as usual to Jeep going. But as usual you make a statement then refuse to answer the problems it would cause.

 

[shmmeee]

Admission of defeat?

You want every business to close who can't afford massive pay increases. Our football club can't afford massive pay increases. We even had to sell a player as usual to Jeep going. But as usual you make a statement then refuse to answer the problems it would cause.

Quite literally posted several research studies backing up my point. At this point you’re just trolling.

 

[Astute]

@Nick @mark82

We need an admin in here because we can’t be trusted to not rise to bait. Can you split off the politics posts and leave the football ones?

Politics?

By the sound of it you want our football club to fold.

Ah I get it. Back to CCC again

 

[shmmeee]

Politics?

By the sound of it you want our football club to fold.

Ah I get it. Back to CCC again

Are our players on strike for better wages or are you in fact chatting shit again?

 

[Astute]

Quite literally posted several research studies backing up my point. At this point you’re just trolling.

Show me the study that says it is better for maybe millions of people to lose their jobs because the companies they work for don't make massive profits. And those who would survive under your rules would even further fan the flames of inflation.

 

[Astute]

Are our players on strike for better wages or are you in fact chatting shit again?

Ah.

So the only people allowed massive increases in pay are those who go on strike?

And BTW we have more people on the books than just the players. Our main outgoings are wages.

 

[shmmeee]

Ah.

So the only people allowed massive increases in pay are those who go on strike?

And BTW we have more people on the books than just the players. Our main outgoings are wages.

I mean the thread is literally about striking workers (now).

I think we should pay the staff more. I think the wages we offer for non playing/coaching staff generally are shocking. And I’d happily pay another pound on my tickets if it went there and not to Martyn Waghorns third holiday home.

 

[mark82]

Revenue?

This is getting as silly as usual.

You didn't specify.

 

[shmmeee]

Show me the study that says it is better for maybe millions of people to lose their jobs because the companies they work for don't make massive profits. And those who would survive under your rules would even further fan the flames of inflation.

What are you on about? I’ve shown you that wage increases don’t translate to job losses. You’ve shown me fuck all but conjecture and random insults when you can’t even summon that up. I’ll give you one last chance to put a cogent argument across and then you’re back on ignore.