shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Are wages 100% of business costs?
Easy to explain.
So everyone should have a 10% pay rise? This puts up the prices of what they do/produce. Transportation costs go up. And in turn inflation continues to go up. So the pay rises are lost to inflation. So another big pay rise is needed to make up for inflation. And so on.
What about mortgages/rent having to go up as well?
What is needed is a higher wage for those not earning as much. Inflation to go back down. This then means people are better off. Wanting pay rises higher than high inflation makes it worse.
That's push inflation though. What we're experiencing is pull inflation.Easy to explain.
So everyone should have a 10% pay rise? This puts up the prices of what they do/produce. Transportation costs go up. And in turn inflation continues to go up. So the pay rises are lost to inflation. So another big pay rise is needed to make up for inflation. And so on.
What about mortgages/rent having to go up as well?
What is needed is a higher wage for those not earning as much. Inflation to go back down. This then means people are better off. Wanting pay rises higher than high inflation makes it worse.
Well I also worked at Fords for 15 years these practices were first developed by them which was taken over and refined by the Japanese. ( 6 SIGMA)
I now work for a small company we had a 5% pay rise, its these people that get further behind I dont need to work so dont make a fuss but do feel sorry for the younger ones.
Higher pay rises are pushing up the prices these small companies have to pay for stock leaving less for the workers.
Catch 22.
That's push inflation though. What we're experiencing is pull inflation.
We're a service economy and if wages don't rise then the flow of money slows and it fucks us all.
Isn't that the Farage party?SDP have announced a pact with Reform UK haven't they
And are wage increases to keep people from having less disposable income really inflationary? They are not creating additional demandAre wages 100% of business costs?
AI already is replacing humansHAHA no it will just become a tool, you know like a calculator when you was doing school exams ? AI wont ever replace people in my life time, and even if it did there would still be someone requiring my skills because I don't sit around on my ass and watch tv after work I improve my skills and knowledge
In 10 years it’ll be able to create decent enough code that’ll cut down on the need for so many devs.AI already is replacing humans
Who has said it is?Are wages 100% of business costs?
We are all fucked if this inflation continues. Could even end up with 17% mortgage rates again.That's push inflation though. What we're experiencing is pull inflation.
We're a service economy and if wages don't rise then the flow of money slows and it fucks us all.
Who has said it is?
The biggest hit to inflation is prices going up on essential items. Raw materials are going up. Just about everything is going up in price. And on top of this you have strikes that lose people wages.
So you go on strike because they won't give/can't afford to pay for it. Lose pay because of a strike? By the time you make that money back with the pay rise it is then time again to strike for the next pay rise.
Just like the Post Office. Losing hundreds of millions a year. It will end up costing thousands of jobs. Or do we only allow massive increases to those who work for a company with healthy profits?
And are wage increases to keep people from having less disposable income really inflationary? They are not creating additional demand
Who has said it is?
The biggest hit to inflation is prices going up on essential items. Raw materials are going up. Just about everything is going up in price. And on top of this you have strikes that lose people wages.
So you go on strike because they won't give/can't afford to pay for it. Lose pay because of a strike? By the time you make that money back with the pay rise it is then time again to strike for the next pay rise.
Just like the Post Office. Losing hundreds of millions a year. It will end up costing thousands of jobs. Or do we only allow massive increases to those who work for a company with healthy profits?
From reutersThe post office and royal mail are two entirely separate entities. It's royal mail staff on strike and that's paid out £500m in dividends so is not losing hundreds of million a year apart from not reinvesting profits.
So if a company can't afford big pay rises they should close and workers lose their jobs?If a business is no longer profitable then why should workers subsidise it? Lots of industries die because they’re no longer economical. The trick is finding and supporting ones that are.
So if a company can't afford big pay rises they should close and workers lose their jobs?
Who has said reduced renumeration?Yes. Unless it’s of national importance then the govt should step in and it should be non profit.
You’re using the same argument as Union leaders who don’t want automation.
Why should workers accept reduced remuneration and not other suppliers? Let me put it another way, if a company can’t afford the price of steel what should it do?
Who has said reduced renumeration?
Price of steel?
No. Back to what you have said. If a company can't afford the massive pay rises wanted by you it should close.
Let's say a company made 100k last year. They employ 50 workers. They are all on 30k a year. 10% pay rise. All get an extra 3k. Adds up to 150k extra. Plus it would cost them more. They go from making 100k to under what you say should close putting 50 people out of work.
Isn't true though is it.Yes labour is a resource like steel or energy. You’re asking what should a company do if it can’t afford labour and I’m asking what do you suggest for any other resource?
You know the answer. The answer is raise prices, improve efficiency, or yes, close the business. That’s capitalism. That’s the deal: potential huge profits and innovation if you crack it, failure if you don’t. And if something is too important to fail then it needs to be government subsidised and IMO profit taking in that instance is immoral because profit is the reward for risk and there is no risk.
As I’ve shown with the Big Mac study though you’re presenting a false dichotomy. In reality prices would rise a little but not as much as wages rise so it’s OK and companies can make workers more productive or find other efficiencies if they want to reduce prices and sell more or increase profit.
Edit: you are saying reduced remuneration because that’s what not keeping up with inflation is.
Renumeration is amount paid for work or a service given. Amount paid isn't going down.Edit: you are saying reduced remuneration because that’s what not keeping up with inflation is.
Isn't true though is it.
Most companies are struggling because of Covid. They need all the help they can get. The help Shmmeee suggests is close them all down if they can't afford massive pay increases.
So the unemployment rate shoots up. Lots of people looking for a job. Wages are then held back because workers are easily replaced. You then end up with the opposite of what you want. And you have already closed lots of places not making a massive profit.
Renumeration is amount paid for work or a service given. Amount paid isn't going down.
Snowflakeagreed i even reported it to be moved but seems theyre all on holiday
Any joy with getting tickets?I’m back in the uk over Xmas and I would love to take my fiancé for her first game and only game on when we’re there is sheff United so would it be possible to get two tickets? Will pay more than face value if needed.
TYIA
Wow you turned that aroundWould you stop all businesses from ever going bust? Should the government have stepped in to keep Wasps afloat? Covid hit them hard they said. What are your criteria for subsidising business through reduced living standards for workers?
Real terms and the way you tried to twist my words are two totally different things.Yes it is in real terms. The figure doesn’t matter. If you can’t buy as much shit with it this year as you could last then your pay has gone down.
already paid for them. so yesAny joy with getting tickets?
Real terms and the way you tried to twist my words are two totally different things.
Who has said reduced renumeration?
Price of steel?
No. Back to what you have said. If a company can't afford the massive pay rises wanted by you it should close.
Let's say a company made 100k last year. They employ 50 workers. They are all on 30k a year. 10% pay rise. All get an extra 3k. Adds up to 150k extra. Plus it would cost them more. They go from making 100k to under what you say should close putting 50 people out of work.
Revenue?I'd say they're already fucked if they're paying out £1.5m in wages with revenue of £100k.
And if the wages go up too quickly the companies fail.Ultimately, if the price of goods & services go up and wages do not, the economy falls on its arse.
Same here.Ive just remembered why I stopped arguing with you on here.
Same here.
Next you will be saying our football club should fold as it can't afford afford a 10% pay rise for everyone. Because at the end of the day we are a business you want to close.
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