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limoncello
Guest
Have you considered a career in the diplomatic services, Hill?
sisu are not good for our club - well someone's got to say it! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter MichaelCCFC
- Start date
hill83
Well-Known Member
Nope. I can be diplomatic when I need to be, but this mug windmilling in changing tack every week and talking bollocks 95% of the time and getting moody when people question him is the final straw.
lewys33
Well-Known Member
To be fair having two groups doesn't work. It would be better to have 1 group with 1 person doing this, another doing the other.
I seriously think we should push CCFC and ACL to thrash out a deal over the summer break. Even if it is on the same basis as the Northampton deal(ish) to get us back and build some bridges. It could all expand from there.
I seriously think we should push CCFC and ACL to thrash out a deal over the summer break. Even if it is on the same basis as the Northampton deal(ish) to get us back and build some bridges. It could all expand from there.
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limoncello
Guest
He is a bit up and down tbh. I remember the 'we don't need any more ideas' statement but if you disagree with him it's 'well, what's your idea?'
Fans aren't unified, supporters groups aren't unified, the council, ACL and Sisu are out for themselves. I despair.
hill83
Well-Known Member
Exactly. It's pretty much over. There's still a few stragglers believing they can make a difference. Total delusion. What will be will be. And a fucking sky blue fruit of the loom t-shirt isn't the answer.
"But what have you done hill83?" I'll save you the time. Fuck all.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
tbf, i thought this was about SISU, until i realised that we havent sold that many t-shirts and we havent seen a picture of our owner.
hill83
Well-Known Member
Works perfectly to be fair. And I'd rather have a cotton t-shirt than a shit nylon cov shirt that sets on fire if you move too quick.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
This - and Godiva's post - is good stuff and exactly what should have been the subject of negotiations back in 2012 and this whole mess would have been avoided. But I keeping coming back to the 2 points that are doing my head in. First, if everyone is saying sisu are not good for ccfc/can't be trusted etc then how is having them as part of any agreement desirable (people can't have it both ways - it just doesn't make sense). Second, the trust have tried since day 1 to engage with all parties and encourage agreement and they end up getting threatened with legal action and embroiled in a battle with the scg. I honestly don't see what more the trust or anyone else could have done to get the parties to talk - the reality is the battle is in the courts. A negotiated settlement is exactly what should have happened but is hoping for sense to prevail now at all realistic?
Nick
Administrator
People keep mentioning this legal action, has more other than the cease and desist happened?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Your at it again Michael. Sisu may not be good for the club but own it and don't have to sell. Therefore they need to be worked with and if they gain the asset base will sell at some point.
By the way I'd prefer them to fan ownership any day. I can't believe you've cited Portsmouth as positive.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Make your mind up Michael... you either want to pursue the SISU out line or you want to actively be involved in a negotiation strategy.
Trouble is I can't tell from post to post which one it is.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Michael - you have ignored some of my questions earlier in the thread - I'm not demanding an answer am I?
The solution lies in negotiation. Now you are right, there has been little if any movement from either side in this so far. However it is kind of to be expected given the impending JR. Unfortunately this is the position we will probably be in until after it - unless they do some kind of last minute deal outside the court.
I think we are all in agreement that SISU "have been no good as owners so far". The other parties involved have been equally as poor, as well as the previous owners.
In my personal opinion - the best method is going to lie in a collaboration of your campaign and the GCBTR initiative. Constant pressure on CCC and SISU (the 2 key players in the dispute).
I don't think attacking the FL is productive... in fact it's a bit lazy. They have their hands tied by numerous factors which are not considered when people say they are spineless and have failed us.
If you pin your colours to the SISU out mast, it will probably make you popular - but won't increase the chance of a solution.
The solution lies in negotiation. Now you are right, there has been little if any movement from either side in this so far. However it is kind of to be expected given the impending JR. Unfortunately this is the position we will probably be in until after it - unless they do some kind of last minute deal outside the court.
I think we are all in agreement that SISU "have been no good as owners so far". The other parties involved have been equally as poor, as well as the previous owners.
In my personal opinion - the best method is going to lie in a collaboration of your campaign and the GCBTR initiative. Constant pressure on CCC and SISU (the 2 key players in the dispute).
I don't think attacking the FL is productive... in fact it's a bit lazy. They have their hands tied by numerous factors which are not considered when people say they are spineless and have failed us.
If you pin your colours to the SISU out mast, it will probably make you popular - but won't increase the chance of a solution.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Quite right, Joy doesn't have to sell up the club is her/her investors property and she can do what she likes with it. There's no obligation to sell up on either side, they're both private companies. As I posted before:
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torchomatic
Well-Known Member
At least it's a question. It's usually "so, basically you are saying..."
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MichaelCCFC
New Member
Make myself popular? Have you read some of the posts on here!
If we 'talk' for long enough it's always possible to find common ground and I agree entirely about the FL as with the need for just one fans' group .
It's probably time to close this thread and I am genuinely grateful to people who have engaged with the substance of the mailout and there are posters on here who I read with interest specifically because they see things differently.
What has struck me most about the discussion on this thread is it hasn't be pro/anti acl/sisu but essentially about tactics and the divide seems to be between a belief about whether or not negotiation can still happen. To end at the beginning, I floated this kite because I was getting challenged that the 4 questions and 'make the call, Joy' themes were irrelevant to the reality of the situation where legal action, including the JR, is the way things are being actioned and more calls for negotiation (of which I've made many) is wishful thinking. cheers
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limoncello
Guest
Sorry but 'I floated this kite'? What the actual fuck?
Before we can call for negotiations we should agree on the purpose.
The overall disagreement is whether the club should stay as tenant or should own ACL.
I call for 100% ownership of ACL as the club need the revenue and because we need a stable environment not decided by a random councillor or public servant.
Sure we can call for new owners, but unless they are given the opportunity to buy ACL, they will fail as well.
Let's make sure we get the right solution now.
lewys33
Well-Known Member
I agree the club should own 100% of ACL. But a good start would be agreeing to a short term rent deal first? Maybe even chuck in the pies as well!
No, if we agree on the solution, then why not go straight for it?
Why waste any more time?
lewys33
Well-Known Member
I think bridges need to be built first. I don't think it would work going straight for the jugular.
Bennets Afro
Well-Known Member
I agree Nick. A rental deal just gives ACL/ CCC more time to leech off the club.
All or nothing on a Ricoh deal for me
All or nothing on a Ricoh deal for me
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
A contract.
There is no need for bridge building.
They can go back to the terms agreed with Higgs and continue from there, only this time either in public (unrealistic) or with a mediator at the table.
The tricky part is not buying Higgs shares - it's the councils shares as well as the loan that will take some serious negotiation.
But if the fans are backing the process and agree the club and ACL must be united, then CCC will have to sell.
lewys33
Well-Known Member
Fuck me all we need now is Ian to pipe up and we have a full house
So would you not support a move back to the Ricoh on a rental deal as oppose to playing at Sixfields which is a rental deal as well?
lewys33
Well-Known Member
Im not arguing that fact, but living in the real world here - I dont want to be at sixfields next year. If a rental deal can be done before the start of the season then great! I think negotiations over ACL will take a long time so can be done whilst we are playing at the Ricoh. Why on earth should we pay rent in Northampton when we pay rent in Coventry??
lewys33
Well-Known Member
Of course depending on the terms of the deal
In an ideal world (won't happen) they would stop fucking about and just buy ACL.
I think it could happen, it will just take a long time to sort it all out - hence why a rent deal and getting us back would be a good start.
Bennets Afro
Well-Known Member
Fuck me all we need now is Ian to pipe up and we have a full house
So would you not support a move back to the Ricoh on a rental deal as oppose to playing at Sixfields which is a rental deal as well?
I would like that, but can't see it happening.
lewys33
Well-Known Member
This is why a short-term rent deal is a good idea I think. Everyone knows where they stand then - 3 years with a possible extension to 5 (random figures but basically same as sixfields). If a deal can be done to buy ACL or get a 125 year lease for a small amount then great! If not then everyone knows CCFC will be moving out on such a date, and they can get on with building their new stadium.
lewys33
Well-Known Member
I think it would be difficult, but not impossible. Something has got to be possible here.
Don't get your hopes up, I don't think we will start next season at the Ricoh.
Even if sisu wins the JR I think the aftermath will be messy and uncertain.
Only two things can get us back (as I see it): 1) CCC and Higgs decide to sell ACL to the club or 2) Sisu leave the club and new owners get to buy the shares (no sane new owner will return us to the Ricoh on a rental basis).
The first option we as fans can influence by letting the council know that's what we want.
The second option we cannot influence as clearly sisu will leave only when they have used up all their litigation power.
