Sixfield attendees 2014/2015 Season (3 Viewers)

[Kingokings204]

I can see it now.

Tim Fisher quits Otium and joins ACL in a shock twist.

 

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[Flying Fokker]

Stranger things have happened. A trojan horse instead of a battering ram.

 

[skybluetony176]

I am on the side of the football club. Anyone going to a ladies football match is only going as its the Ricoh. They would not go if it was at the normal venue.

So the fact that it's a football team bearing the name of Coventry City with the added novelty factor of actually playing in Coventry has no bearing on it.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I think so, but then again I've never gone on about how brilliantly ACL are doing aand are going to continue to do without the club.

Some seem able to hold two contrasting opinions at the same time.

Why are they contrasting views?

SISU are, to many, distressing ACL. You're not arguing with that, are you?

ACL are currently withstanding that campaign. Their current accounts prove such, and you have no proof - an opinion that worse may be to come, but no proof - that they won't moving forwards.

Would you care to explain why the two views are mutually exclusive?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I am on the side of the football club. Anyone going to a ladies football match is only going as its the Ricoh. They would not go if it was at the normal venue.

If you want to discuss a paradoxical view, this is it.

On the side of the football club (eh?!?), but incessantly, blindly and childishly supporting every self-serving tactic of it's owners - which are producing an ever worsening result?!?

If LS has an interest in views that shouldn't coexist, this is where his gaze should fall...

 

[Grendel]

If you want to discuss a paradoxical view, this is it.

On the side of the football club (eh?!?), but incessantly, blindly and childishly supporting every self-serving tactic of it's owners - which are producing an ever worsening result?!?

If LS has an interest in views that shouldn't coexist, this is where his gaze should fall...

I don't support every tactic - I certainly do not support the move to Northampton so your theory is invalid.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

There is no way in the World that nyour projections(not theirs by thqqe way) has any basis during any kind of factual analysis.

You could not explain how a doubled income during the Olympics year over the previous year(with reduced profits, but that's by the by), with a note saying that the Olympics actually affected trading during the three months of the Olympics could actually make any sense?

Turnover ACL

2007 £6.4 million
2008 £7.3 million
2009 £6.8 million
2010 £6.6 million
2011 £6.7 million
2012 £7.8 million
2013 £14.5 million(Including year of the Olympics).

I merely pointed out that it was absurd to have a note in the accounts to say,



when their turnover had doubled over all previous years based on it.

I asked why on earth they weren't pulling in more than that on previous years which would have also have been football free months if the Olympics had so badly affected it.

Depite your blathering about "horizontal growth" from whichever self-help book you're reading this week, do you still believe that the turnover for 2013/14 year will be the same, if not more than the most recent published set of accounts?

Which they should be based on the statement raised above.

You're really struggling on this thread, which is why you resorted to lying about what I'd said. Something you still haven't acknowledged I note.

I will type it again, I have no idea what the next set of accounts will look like.

However, and to where we started, neither have you. But so far, they have produced a result in line with that which they promised. So if they put a caveat statement in when they produce accounts, what is your basis for disbelieving them?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I don't support every tactic - I certainly do not support the move to Northampton so your theory is invalid.

Do you think the new stadium will be built?

 

[lordsummerisle]

You're really struggling on this thread, which is why you resorted to lying about what I'd said. Something you still haven't acknowledged I note.

I will type it again, I have no idea what the next set of accounts will look like.

However, and to where we started, neither have you. But so far, they have produced a result in line with that which they promised. So if they put a caveat statement in when they produce accounts, what is your basis for disbelieving them?

I disbelieve the statement that the Olympics had a negative effect on trading when turnover waas vrtually doubled becuase of it.

That seems to be just one of many, many things that you fail to grasp.

You failed to get back on whether the value of ACL increases(as all the grown-ups think apparently) or decreases based on the length of the lease?

Suspect I know the reason for that.

 

[Astute]

I don't support every tactic - I certainly do not support the move to Northampton so your theory is invalid.

At least you could think of one. And your point would have held more weight a few weeks ago.

 

[Covlad65]

I will go . I don't think that SiSU are going. The more they put in out of their pockets, the more debt is loaded against the club and no one will ever buy us while we are down in the depths. We need some relative success so they can sell and move on. I fear that starving the club of cash might just bite us in the arse. And by he way I am in no way advocating that we should all rock up to sixfields, each to their own and I respect your choice. My boycott lasted two weeks

You beat me......mine was 3 weeks but was on holiday for 2 of those!

 

[Astute]

I disbelieve the statement that the Olympics had a negative effect on trading when turnover waas vrtually doubled becuase of it.

That seems to be just one of many, many things that you fail to grasp.

You failed to get back on whether the value of ACL increases(as all the grown-ups think apparently) or decreases based on the length of the lease?

Suspect I know the reason for that.

A 100 year lease not making money could easily be worth less than a 50 year lease making money. The more money being made the more value of the lease. Why do you think this is the main reason for us playing in Northampton? Yes it was to try and make the lease worthless. To try and bring the value of the freehold down. To try and make the arena into a major loss maker. Yet they try to use the excuse that they don't trust the council. If this was true how much would that mean that the council don't trust SISU?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I disbelieve the statement that the Olympics had a negative effect on trading when turnover waas vrtually doubled becuase of it.

That seems to be just one of many, many things that you fail to grasp.

You failed to get back on whether the value of ACL increases(as all the grown-ups think apparently) or decreases based on the length of the lease?

Suspect I know the reason for that.

Turnover was obviously up due to the Olympics, but how much did they have to pay to host it? It would seem to be a lot and this could be the main reason that profit was down. ACL are stating that whilst hosting the Olympics they couldn't hold other events, that makes sense.

In the early years of a long lease the fact that the term is reducing will have no material affect on the value of the company. Anyone wanting to buy the business will see a profitable company with a secure tenure, so it's entirely possible that a business can increase in value whilst a lease is reducing.

 

[skybluetony176]

I disbelieve the statement that the Olympics had a negative effect on trading when turnover waas vrtually doubled becuase of it.

That seems to be just one of many, many ths that you fail to grasp.

You failed to get back on whether the value of ACL increases(as all the grown-ups think apparently) or decreases based on the length of the lease?

Suspect I know the reason for that.

Sorry to but in on your discussion. But could it be that while the Olympics was on they couldn't take bookings for music concerts and these are a bigger earner for ACL? Not saying I know this to be the reason for the statement in the accounts but it sort of makes sense to me.

I went several years ago to watch the Red Hot Chilli Peppers and it was rammed (stands and pitch) and all the catering stands sold out. I also noted that the CCFC shop was open out of season and on a Sunday and was full of RHCP fans buying replica tops as a souvenir of there visit to Coventry to watch a band, yet another line of revenue sisu have stolen from the club.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Would you care to explain why the two views are mutually exclusive?

Because ACL are being distressed or they are not.

I'm firmly in the Sisu are distressing ACL camp to gain the Ricoh.

You think that ACL are financially able to survive without the club.

I can't be in the latter group if I believe the first, or vice-versa.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I disbelieve the statement that the Olympics had a negative effect on trading when turnover waas vrtually doubled becuase of it.

That seems to be just one of many, many things that you fail to grasp.

You failed to get back on whether the value of ACL increases(as all the grown-ups think apparently) or decreases based on the length of the lease?

Suspect I know the reason for that.

And now you're misrepresenting ACLs statement. You're really struggling. Their statement wasn't to say that the Olympics depressed their figures, but that it shouldn't be seen in the way you're now interpreting it. That is that without the Olympics they'd have earned nothing over the summer. So you can't simply subtract the Olympic revenue and take a view on the balance.

As for the latter, it seemed so infantile a view, I thought it was a joke. Are you seriously telling me you believe a Limited business is valued solely on the basis of the length of it's lease; and not on incomes, strength of balance sheet, projections, etc?

 

[_brian_]

Hi guys! Trying to catch up with this thread, but can't for the life of me work out who's winning this intriguing internet battle!!! Anyone able to give me an update on the scores please?!? Thanks in advance!

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Because ACL are being distressed or they are not.

I'm firmly in the Sisu are distressing ACL camp to gain the Ricoh.

You think that ACL are financially able to survive without the club.

I can't be in the latter group if I believe the first, or vice-versa.

It's quite possible that SISU are trying to distress ACL and failing.

In fact, given their track record in all things CCFC related, isn't that the most likely situation?

 

[bigfatronssba]

It's quite possible that SISU are trying to distress ACL and failing.

In fact, given their track record in all things CCFC related, isn't that the most likely situation?

Have they ever succeeded at anything?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Because ACL are being distressed or they are not.

I'm firmly in the Sisu are distressing ACL camp to gain the Ricoh.

You think that ACL are financially able to survive without the club.

I can't be in the latter group if I believe the first, or vice-versa.

Hells teeth. Yes you can. You can believe that SISU are trying to distress ACL, and that right now ACL are withstanding it.

There you go. Both views, living together. Indeed, I suggest many people hold the view you assert is impossible.

Has someone hijacked your account?

 

[lordsummerisle]

As for the latter, it seemed so infantile a view, I thought it was a joke. Are you seriously telling me you believe a Limited business is valued solely on the basis of the length of it's lease; and not on incomes, strength of balance sheet, projections, etc?

Simple way to answer it really.

ACL's lease was valued at £18.7 million in the last accounts.

What was it valued at in previous accounts?

If it was lower and has been increasing to that value then i will gladly admit i was wrong.

 

[The Gentleman]

Have they ever succeeded at anything?

Apparently Fisher had a winner at Cheltenham yesterday.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Simple way to answer it really.

ACL's lease was valued at £18.7 million in the last accounts.

What was it valued at in previous accounts?

If it was lower and has been increasing to that value then i will gladly admit i was wrong.

Surely that's the value of the depreciating lease; not the value of the trading business? :facepalm:

 

[lordsummerisle]

Surely that's the value of the depreciating lease; not the value of the trading business? :facepalm:

The trading business has been pretty consistent all along, not an awful lot of growth, and with the anchor tenant and subsequent footfall loss will be struggling to maintain an even line, let alone "horizontal growth".

More likely to be what you would call "downward growth".

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The trading business has been pretty consistent all along, not an awful lot of growth, and with the anchor tenant and subsequent footfall loss will be struggling to maintain an even line, let alone "horizontal growth".

More likely to be what you would call "downward growth".

Again, that's conjecture; and doesn't hide from the fact that in one thread; you're lied about what I stated to cover your false claims, misrepresented ACL's accounts caveat, struggled to understand how two entirely complimentary views can be held simultaneously, and then taken a childishly foolish view by confusing the depreciated value of the lease on ACL's books with the value of ACL's business.

Even Grendel, your monkey, has left the organ grinder's shoulder in embarrassment

 

[stupot07]

That list of yearly incomes shows that the income without our club has gone up a fair bit recently. For instance the income went up 1.1m in 2012. How much of that was rent or lack of it? The lack of rent paid doesn't even register on that list. So the longer the business grows the more our club isn't being missed.

I believe we paid full rent that financial year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

I wont ever go to Northampton to watch a home game, nor to a stadium built in or out of Coventry, when there is a perfectly good stadium lying empty due to pig headedness and hubris, That said i dont get to Coventry that often so wouldn't go to the ricoh that often anyway, so i am not in the eye of the storm like you guys.

a confession to make though, i think the pro guys like Grendel do a great job in rebuffing the arguments of the majority, clear and reasoned whilst skewering most of the anti arguments. Up your game guys.

I can promise you that ACL will survive without CCFC, 100 per cent, can the same be said for CCFC? the losers here are us supporters, disunited, passive and rudderless.

 

[Nick]

I wont ever go to Northampton to watch a home game, nor to a stadium built in or out of Coventry, when there is a perfectly good stadium lying empty due to pig headedness and hubris, That said i dont get to Coventry that often so wouldn't go to the ricoh that often anyway, so i am not in the eye of the storm like you guys.

a confession to make though, i think the pro guys like Grendel do a great job in rebuffing the arguments of the majority, clear and reasoned whilst skewering most of the anti arguments. Up your game guys.

I can promise you that ACL will survive without CCFC, 100 per cent, can the same be said for CCFC? the losers here are us supporters, disunited, passive and rudderless.

So in other words you wouldn't go and watch CCFC anyway?

 

[torchomatic]

So in other words you wouldn't go and watch CCFC anyway?

But even if he could he wouldn't.

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[chiefdave]

I can't imagine anyone would claim SISU weren't trying to distress ACL, if they weren't then their behaviour is even more bizarre than anyone ever suspected.

For their plan to work ACL need to be forced to the brink and either put out of business or forced to sell up on the cheap. That is what some posters on here stated would happen within months of the club moving out.

It hasn't happened and in reality ACL don't need to make a profit, they don't need growth - of course as a business they would like both of those but in real terms so long as they just about break even and can maintain payments on their debts. There is zero evidence to suggest that any projections ACL have made are false or that they can't at the very least achieve break even.

 

[torchomatic]

Almost as strange as thosd who were beside themselves over the prospect of administration or even liquidation as it rid us of SISU.

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[NortonSkyBlue]

So in other words you wouldn't go and watch CCFC anyway?

Nick - the clue is in the user name, I am based in Saudi Arabia, however before you use that as an excuse to dismiss my argument, please may I state that I accept you are right. My 35 seasons of going to most games home and away and 50 years of supporting my team mean much to me, future generations just wont be there to clock up the games or memories because of this generation of city fans didn't actually care enough to make their voice heard. IMO

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It hasn't happened and in reality ACL don't need to make a profit, they don't need growth - of course as a business they would like both of those but in real terms so long as they just about break even and can maintain payments on their debts. There is zero evidence to suggest that any projections ACL have made are false or that they can't at the very least achieve break even.

Agreed. Looking at their accounts recently posted, it is a clean audit report, with no entries from the auditor citing doubts about the business as a Going Concern. The balance sheet is decent, with cash in the bank, and an increasing net asset schedule; and the auditor has to consider not less than 12 months from when he signs the report with regards his forward prognosis; which gives the business - in effect - decent outlook to until February 2015. Again, I have no idea of how the next set of accounts will look, but this doesn't look like a business sitting on the cusp of death and destruction from it's trading position alone.

Which, for me, is perhaps why the JR has got the focus it has; as smoking ACL out of the Ricoh by starvation alone looks like it could - and again I use the word could - be a long waiting game. And played on that basis alone - who can last longer ignoring the JV; ACL or CCFC would be a difficult call to make. The latter point - in my opinion alone - being a significant misjudgement SISU made

 

[lordsummerisle]

Again, that's conjecture; and doesn't hide from the fact that in one thread; you're lied about what I stated to cover your false claims, misrepresented ACL's accounts caveat, struggled to understand how two entirely complimentary views can be held simultaneously, and then taken a childishly foolish view by confusing the depreciated value of the lease on ACL's books with the value of ACL's business.

Even Grendel, your monkey, has left the organ grinder's shoulder in embarrassment

So are you saying that the broken lease by Sisu, apparently worth £40million(which I remember you getting very aerated about) was actually worthless and had no value?

Surely the 40 years of future income from that lease would have been factored into the value of ACL at the time?

Therefore the value of that lease would now have to be subtracted from the value of ACL?

Nothing to replace 40 years of "guaranteed" income been announced as far as i'm aware.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

So are you saying that the broken lease by Sisu, apparently worth £40million(which I remember you getting very aerated about) was actually worthless and had no value?

Surely the 40 years of future income from that lease would have been factored into the value of ACL at the time?

Therefore the value of that lease would now have to be subtracted from the value of ACL?

Nothing to replace 40 years of "guaranteed" income been announced as far as i'm aware.

Of course the lease has a value. But it's not the only factor in valuing a business, is it?

A business like ACL takes a lease, perhaps buys it with a commercial loan or mortgage. The lease is a vehicle to raise profits has a value as an asset. The value of the lease sits as a liability, depreciated until it's paid off.

Are you talking about the value of the lease as an asset, like the £18.8m shown in the accounts? But this isn't the sole determinant in valuing a business that holds that lease, is it?