Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
I can see it now.
Tim Fisher quits Otium and joins ACL in a shock twist.
Tim Fisher quits Otium and joins ACL in a shock twist.
Sixfield attendees 2014/2015 Season (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Covlad65
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Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
Stranger things have happened. A trojan horse instead of a battering ram.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So the fact that it's a football team bearing the name of Coventry City with the added novelty factor of actually playing in Coventry has no bearing on it.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Why are they contrasting views?
SISU are, to many, distressing ACL. You're not arguing with that, are you?
ACL are currently withstanding that campaign. Their current accounts prove such, and you have no proof - an opinion that worse may be to come, but no proof - that they won't moving forwards.
Would you care to explain why the two views are mutually exclusive?
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
If you want to discuss a paradoxical view, this is it.
On the side of the football club (eh?!?), but incessantly, blindly and childishly supporting every self-serving tactic of it's owners - which are producing an ever worsening result?!?
If LS has an interest in views that shouldn't coexist, this is where his gaze should fall...
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I don't support every tactic - I certainly do not support the move to Northampton so your theory is invalid.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
You're really struggling on this thread, which is why you resorted to lying about what I'd said. Something you still haven't acknowledged I note.
I will type it again, I have no idea what the next set of accounts will look like.
However, and to where we started, neither have you. But so far, they have produced a result in line with that which they promised. So if they put a caveat statement in when they produce accounts, what is your basis for disbelieving them?
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Do you think the new stadium will be built?
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
I disbelieve the statement that the Olympics had a negative effect on trading when turnover waas vrtually doubled becuase of it.
That seems to be just one of many, many things that you fail to grasp.
You failed to get back on whether the value of ACL increases(as all the grown-ups think apparently) or decreases based on the length of the lease?
Suspect I know the reason for that.
Astute
Well-Known Member
At least you could think of one. And your point would have held more weight a few weeks ago.
You beat me......mine was 3 weeks but was on holiday for 2 of those!
Astute
Well-Known Member
A 100 year lease not making money could easily be worth less than a 50 year lease making money. The more money being made the more value of the lease. Why do you think this is the main reason for us playing in Northampton? Yes it was to try and make the lease worthless. To try and bring the value of the freehold down. To try and make the arena into a major loss maker. Yet they try to use the excuse that they don't trust the council. If this was true how much would that mean that the council don't trust SISU?
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
Turnover was obviously up due to the Olympics, but how much did they have to pay to host it? It would seem to be a lot and this could be the main reason that profit was down. ACL are stating that whilst hosting the Olympics they couldn't hold other events, that makes sense.
In the early years of a long lease the fact that the term is reducing will have no material affect on the value of the company. Anyone wanting to buy the business will see a profitable company with a secure tenure, so it's entirely possible that a business can increase in value whilst a lease is reducing.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Sorry to but in on your discussion. But could it be that while the Olympics was on they couldn't take bookings for music concerts and these are a bigger earner for ACL? Not saying I know this to be the reason for the statement in the accounts but it sort of makes sense to me.
I went several years ago to watch the Red Hot Chilli Peppers and it was rammed (stands and pitch) and all the catering stands sold out. I also noted that the CCFC shop was open out of season and on a Sunday and was full of RHCP fans buying replica tops as a souvenir of there visit to Coventry to watch a band, yet another line of revenue sisu have stolen from the club.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Because ACL are being distressed or they are not.
I'm firmly in the Sisu are distressing ACL camp to gain the Ricoh.
You think that ACL are financially able to survive without the club.
I can't be in the latter group if I believe the first, or vice-versa.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
And now you're misrepresenting ACLs statement. You're really struggling. Their statement wasn't to say that the Olympics depressed their figures, but that it shouldn't be seen in the way you're now interpreting it. That is that without the Olympics they'd have earned nothing over the summer. So you can't simply subtract the Olympic revenue and take a view on the balance.
As for the latter, it seemed so infantile a view, I thought it was a joke. Are you seriously telling me you believe a Limited business is valued solely on the basis of the length of it's lease; and not on incomes, strength of balance sheet, projections, etc?
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
It's quite possible that SISU are trying to distress ACL and failing.
In fact, given their track record in all things CCFC related, isn't that the most likely situation?
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bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
It's quite possible that SISU are trying to distress ACL and failing.
In fact, given their track record in all things CCFC related, isn't that the most likely situation?
Have they ever succeeded at anything?
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Hells teeth. Yes you can. You can believe that SISU are trying to distress ACL, and that right now ACL are withstanding it.
There you go. Both views, living together. Indeed, I suggest many people hold the view you assert is impossible.
Has someone hijacked your account?
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lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Simple way to answer it really.
ACL's lease was valued at £18.7 million in the last accounts.
What was it valued at in previous accounts?
If it was lower and has been increasing to that value then i will gladly admit i was wrong.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Apparently Fisher had a winner at Cheltenham yesterday.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Surely that's the value of the depreciating lease; not the value of the trading business? :facepalm:
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
The trading business has been pretty consistent all along, not an awful lot of growth, and with the anchor tenant and subsequent footfall loss will be struggling to maintain an even line, let alone "horizontal growth".
More likely to be what you would call "downward growth".
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Again, that's conjecture; and doesn't hide from the fact that in one thread; you're lied about what I stated to cover your false claims, misrepresented ACL's accounts caveat, struggled to understand how two entirely complimentary views can be held simultaneously, and then taken a childishly foolish view by confusing the depreciated value of the lease on ACL's books with the value of ACL's business.
Even Grendel, your monkey, has left the organ grinder's shoulder in embarrassment
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I believe we paid full rent that financial year.
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NortonSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
I wont ever go to Northampton to watch a home game, nor to a stadium built in or out of Coventry, when there is a perfectly good stadium lying empty due to pig headedness and hubris, That said i dont get to Coventry that often so wouldn't go to the ricoh that often anyway, so i am not in the eye of the storm like you guys.
a confession to make though, i think the pro guys like Grendel do a great job in rebuffing the arguments of the majority, clear and reasoned whilst skewering most of the anti arguments. Up your game guys.
I can promise you that ACL will survive without CCFC, 100 per cent, can the same be said for CCFC? the losers here are us supporters, disunited, passive and rudderless.
a confession to make though, i think the pro guys like Grendel do a great job in rebuffing the arguments of the majority, clear and reasoned whilst skewering most of the anti arguments. Up your game guys.
I can promise you that ACL will survive without CCFC, 100 per cent, can the same be said for CCFC? the losers here are us supporters, disunited, passive and rudderless.
Nick
Administrator
So in other words you wouldn't go and watch CCFC anyway?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine anyone would claim SISU weren't trying to distress ACL, if they weren't then their behaviour is even more bizarre than anyone ever suspected.
For their plan to work ACL need to be forced to the brink and either put out of business or forced to sell up on the cheap. That is what some posters on here stated would happen within months of the club moving out.
It hasn't happened and in reality ACL don't need to make a profit, they don't need growth - of course as a business they would like both of those but in real terms so long as they just about break even and can maintain payments on their debts. There is zero evidence to suggest that any projections ACL have made are false or that they can't at the very least achieve break even.
For their plan to work ACL need to be forced to the brink and either put out of business or forced to sell up on the cheap. That is what some posters on here stated would happen within months of the club moving out.
It hasn't happened and in reality ACL don't need to make a profit, they don't need growth - of course as a business they would like both of those but in real terms so long as they just about break even and can maintain payments on their debts. There is zero evidence to suggest that any projections ACL have made are false or that they can't at the very least achieve break even.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Almost as strange as thosd who were beside themselves over the prospect of administration or even liquidation as it rid us of SISU.
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NortonSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Nick - the clue is in the user name, I am based in Saudi Arabia, however before you use that as an excuse to dismiss my argument, please may I state that I accept you are right. My 35 seasons of going to most games home and away and 50 years of supporting my team mean much to me, future generations just wont be there to clock up the games or memories because of this generation of city fans didn't actually care enough to make their voice heard. IMO
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Looking at their accounts recently posted, it is a clean audit report, with no entries from the auditor citing doubts about the business as a Going Concern. The balance sheet is decent, with cash in the bank, and an increasing net asset schedule; and the auditor has to consider not less than 12 months from when he signs the report with regards his forward prognosis; which gives the business - in effect - decent outlook to until February 2015. Again, I have no idea of how the next set of accounts will look, but this doesn't look like a business sitting on the cusp of death and destruction from it's trading position alone.
Which, for me, is perhaps why the JR has got the focus it has; as smoking ACL out of the Ricoh by starvation alone looks like it could - and again I use the word could - be a long waiting game. And played on that basis alone - who can last longer ignoring the JV; ACL or CCFC would be a difficult call to make. The latter point - in my opinion alone - being a significant misjudgement SISU made
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lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
So are you saying that the broken lease by Sisu, apparently worth £40million(which I remember you getting very aerated about) was actually worthless and had no value?
Surely the 40 years of future income from that lease would have been factored into the value of ACL at the time?
Therefore the value of that lease would now have to be subtracted from the value of ACL?
Nothing to replace 40 years of "guaranteed" income been announced as far as i'm aware.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Of course the lease has a value. But it's not the only factor in valuing a business, is it?
A business like ACL takes a lease, perhaps buys it with a commercial loan or mortgage. The lease is a vehicle to raise profits has a value as an asset. The value of the lease sits as a liability, depreciated until it's paid off.
Are you talking about the value of the lease as an asset, like the £18.8m shown in the accounts? But this isn't the sole determinant in valuing a business that holds that lease, is it?