Southport Stabbing (41 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

I agree with alot of what you've said in this thread but not this .

Should this have been one of your own children the desire to see a violent end to the bloke would have been strong , well for me it would have .
People , including myself do not see a prison sentence as being anywhere near as painful as what the children and the parents went/are going through.. prison is easy , boring but easy (in the UK atleast )

Compared with being brutally murdered by a stranger yep prison is easy
You and those that liked this and those that agree would find it useful to go to a prison and have a look to see how easy it is
I have no personal experience but I know a few who have and it really wasn’t easy it’s awful and it should be
There’s a reason why torture uses solitary confinement and blocking of any communication channels
Pretty much everyone inside (non violent and most women) deserve it so I’m not saying give anyone any sympathy but it really isn’t easy even in a well run non violence place that I regularly go to

 

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[Grendel]

Wow really

The Bullseye appearance that implicated the real-life Pembrokeshire Murders killer

Cooper murdered a pair of holidaymakers just weeks after he filmed appearance on ITV game show

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Evo1883]

“I think we should have the death penalty”

is one thing, a paragraph long rant about the exact acts of violence you’d like to see is another. And it’s never the people whose children have been killed saying this but internet tough guys desperate to prove how tough they are and attack others for not joining in. Fuck em.

Being an adult in a sane society isn’t not feeling rage it’s not acting on it.

Sure , saying it isn't acting on it either and I'd imagine parents are definitely saying things behind closed doors , we all would

 

[MalcSB]

It's just surreal watching that clip of Axel as a boy on Doctor Who and thinking years later he'll go on to do the most evil crime.

How does a child/human/adult change so drastically?

It seems like just a couple of years after that he was threatening people in school etc.

Bear in mind he was acting on Dr Who. It’s not real.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The Bullseye appearance that implicated the real-life Pembrokeshire Murders killer

Cooper murdered a pair of holidaymakers just weeks after he filmed appearance on ITV game show

www.independent.co.uk

Maybe there is a link then
Police need to look through old tv shows when considering who to pull off the streets
One thing that I’ve always thought interesting is the matrix and if it’s not possible to pre empt attacks especially of this nature
Maybe we are hugely successful and stop 99.99% of them but that still means the odd one happens and despite blame and fear and anger etc there literally is and was nothing that could be done
I bloody hope that’s not the case but i fear it is

 

[Evo1883]

Compared with being brutally murdered by a stranger yep prison is easy
You and those that liked this and those that agree would find it useful to go to a prison and have a look to see how easy it is
I have no personal experience but I know a few who have and it really wasn’t easy it’s awful and it should be
There’s a reason why torture uses solitary confinement and blocking of any communication channels
Pretty much everyone inside (non violent and most women) deserve it so I’m not saying give anyone any sympathy but it really isn’t easy even in a well run non violence place that I regularly go to

Pete , with respect you know nothing about prison and how it really is mate .

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Sure , saying it isn't acting on it either and I'd imagine parents are definitely saying things behind closed doors , we all would

I’m certain I wouldn’t. my overriding emotion would be sadness and helplessness
Then I think I’d jump to trying to understand and make a difference which is what you often see

 

[Grendel]

Though it’s unlikely he will be released it’s worth noting David Mcgready is now amongst us having been imprisoned for 45 years

A charming chap who beheaded 3 infants and placed them on iron railings so her mother could see them on the way home

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Pete , with respect you know nothing about prison and how it really is mate .

Huh?
Why?
I think I probably do evo gjven the conversations I’ve had with friends who’ve been inside
Why would you say that?

 

[shmmeee]

Sure , saying it isn't acting on it either and I'd imagine parents are definitely saying things behind closed doors , we all would

The parents can say what they want they’ve been through hell. We’re in a thread where the same people are ranting at authorities for not taking violent tendencies seriously enough, either we do or we don’t. As I say feeling something and having a desire to post repeatedly about it and castigate others who don’t are two different things. I don’t want to live in a society where violent fantasies are seen as OK against people you don’t like. This guy didn’t like these kids someone always doesn’t like someone. Letting this shit out in public leads to an environment where there’s far more violence as it’s an accepted way of dealing with people you don’t like.

Not for me. Sorry.

 

[MalcSB]

It's almost as if the police have more information than some people on a CCFC forum.

They had more information about this scrote than they were willing to let on, as claimed on social media leading, at least in part, to a heightening of tension and the riots.

 

[Evo1883]

Infact Pete prison is that hard , people keep going back

 

[SBT]

Its a really ugly thing with these crimes that certain people use them as a chance to be allowed to say out loud violent fantasies and then go back to saying how much they think violent people should be locked up at the first opportunity. I’m disgusted by these crimes, I’m not spending hours writing fan fiction about violent acts I’d like to enact on them.

It’s almost always the same people who rant about “virtue signalling” as well.

 

[MalcSB]

Do you understand a person who "shot" Trump and a person who stabbed little girls appear on national TV/advertising isn't in the slightest bit odd??

How many times have you been featured on TV? I can count a couple whilst at a football game in a crowd?

Around 10 times on TV, similar on radio.

Non fiction

 

[Evo1883]

The parents can say what they want they’ve been through hell. We’re in a thread where the same people are ranting at authorities for not taking violent tendencies seriously enough, either we do or we don’t. As I say feeling something and having a desire to post repeatedly about it and castigate others who don’t are two different things. I don’t want to live in a society where violent fantasies are seen as OK against people you don’t like. This guy didn’t like these kids someone always doesn’t like someone. Letting this shit out in public leads to an environment where there’s far more violence as it’s an accepted way of dealing with people you don’t like.

Not for me. Sorry.

I don't think people wishing violence on a mass child murderer are bad people personally , they are not fantasies either that's a weird way to twist angry reaction.

But you are well within your right to agree that he not be harmed and serve a long boring sentence in our ridiculously cushy prison system too

People like this man should serve life then be injected at the end , get rid and free up prison space

 

[SBT]

I don't think people wishing violence on a mass child murderer are bad people personally , they are not fantasies either that's a weird way to twist angry reaction.

I don’t think they’re necessarily bad people but they are routinely presented as fantasies and there is sometimes a strange element of oneupmanship in there too (“I hope they do xyz to him in prison”….”I hope they do xyz AND castrate him afterwards”)

Obviously not the most distressing takeaway from the case but I do find it odd

 

[MalcSB]

Infact Pete prison is that hard , people keep going back

So, we have claims that the death penalty isn’t a deterrent, and neither is prison.

If we shouldn’t have the death penalty as it isn’t a deterrent, why bother with prison? (A rhetorical question, but to a certain extent not an unreasonable one to at least ask).

The obvious difference is that people convicted of horrendous crimes that are then subject to capital punishment will not reoffend or “go back”.

 

[Evo1883]

I don’t think they’re necessarily bad people but they are routinely presented as fantasies and there is sometimes a strange element of oneupmanship in there too (“I hope they do xyz to him in prison”….”I hope they do xyz AND castrate him afterwards”)

Obviously not the most distressing takeaway from the case but I do find it odd

It's generally caused by anger

 

[Evo1883]

So, we have claims that the death penalty isn’t a deterrent, and neither is prison.

If we shouldn’t have the death penalty as it isn’t a deterrent, why bother with prison? (A rhetorical question, but to a certain extent not an unreasonable one to at least ask).

The obvious difference is that people convicted of horrendous crimes that are then subject to capital punishment will not reoffend or “go back”.

I guess this is a different discussion tbh

 

[MalcSB]

I don't think people wishing violence on a mass child murderer are bad people personally , they are not fantasies either that's a weird way to twist angry reaction.

But you are well within your right to agree that he not be harmed and serve a long boring sentence in our ridiculously cushy prison system too

People like this man should serve life then be injected at the end , get rid and free up prison space

Why bother with the injection at the end? It’s the end anyway. To free up prison space, would have to be at the beginning.

 

[Nick]

Huh?
Why?
I think I probably do evo gjven the conversations I’ve had with friends who’ve been inside
Why would you say that?

Always had some good stories from somebody who used to work in one.

Some people make more money inside then they do on the outside so go back on purpose.

Let's face it, he's not going to go in and be tortured in a cell. He will be very comfortable and there will be shit loads of money spent on protecting him. There will be officers getting paid not much having to put themselves in front of him.

 

[Evo1883]

Why bother with the injection at the end? It’s the end anyway. To free up prison space, would have to be at the beginning.

To be fair , why keep him alive until natural death ? Surely the excitement of 23 years plus a date to die beats not knowing .

I have no empathy for prisoners of this kind

 

[SBT]

It's generally caused by anger

Clearly. Although I think it would be a mistake to assume that only those who share such “hopes” in vivid detail are the ones who feel that anger.

 

[MalcSB]

I guess this is a different discussion tbh

It’s a discussion arising from, and up to a point bringing together the essence of, two separate posts in this thread.

What do you do if the potential options available do not deter, and the only actual option available neither deters nor rehabilitates as people continue to offend?

Many law abiding people see prison in the UK as being a relatively soft option.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

They had more information about this scrote than they were willing to let on, as claimed on social media leading, at least in part, to a heightening of tension and the riots.

That’s true
More and more I’m convinced that each person is responsible for themselves and if the police and security services and government made decisions based on public safety then they aren’t responsible for the ratcheting up of those tensions and the riots the people that ratcheted things up and took part in the riots are
Similar for us lot too and for this wankers parents. There is a level of human culpability for how their child turned out as evo said about adultery is scummy but not illegal. I’m not convinced any of us dads and maybe some mums could have dealt with this any differently

I also recognise if they were and are big xians maybe they thought prayer would bring about a miraculous change. Again fuckin stupid but I do feel it’s wrong to lump them in with their wanker of a son

I can absolutely see from personal and friends experience how a predilection for violence unchallenged can lead to disaster. Same with sex same with greed same with power etc etc

Im sorry genuinely if my defending of the parents or system has added to anyone’s anger and frustration and sadness at what this person did

I value each of you and your opinions a lot (some less who accuse me of supporting child abuse) but that’s one or two tops. The rest of you being willing to express opinions broadens my life experience and helps me consider different approaches to things I hold as sacrosanct.
Like the value of each human life
Like the possibility of restoration whether deserved or not
Like the power of forgiveness to turn one’s life around

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Infact Pete prison is that hard , people keep going back

You think that’s a life choice as well don’t you? Rather than the fact that they don’t have a chance. Not this guy!

look at the stats on who’s in there and then why they reoffend. You won’t be surprised

 

[MalcSB]

To be fair , why keep him alive until natural death ? Surely the excitement of 23 years plus a date to die beats not knowing .

I have no empathy for prisoners of this kind

Even more exciting if it’s 23 hours or days.

 

[rob9872]

If we're looking at tv and radio to convict, is there any chance we can start with Nick from Birmingham on the CWR phone ins?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If we're looking at tv and radio to convict, is there any chance we can start with Nick from Birmingham on the CWR phone ins?

‘Police! Open the door!’

‘Time for me to SCRAMBLE AWAY’

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Always had some good stories from somebody who used to work in one.

Some people make more money inside then they do on the outside so go back on purpose.

Let's face it, he's not going to go in and be tortured in a cell. He will be very comfortable and there will be shit loads of money spent on protecting him. There will be officers getting paid not much having to put themselves in front of him.

That’s fair
I have different stories too and some prisons aren’t run by the staff

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

T

It’s a discussion arising from, and up to a point bringing together the essence of, two separate posts in this thread.

What do you do if the potential options available do not deter, and the only actual option available neither deters nor rehabilitates as people continue to offend?

Many law abiding people see prison in the UK as being a relatively soft option.

That Sir is an excellent question
I suppose fundamentally you change the system

 

[shmmeee]

It’s a discussion arising from, and up to a point bringing together the essence of, two separate posts in this thread.

What do you do if the potential options available do not deter, and the only actual option available neither deters nor rehabilitates as people continue to offend?

Many law abiding people see prison in the UK as being a relatively soft option.

No punishment deters, that’s not the reason we punish. You have prison sentences mainly to remove them from the streets so they can’t reoffend. We don’t kill or torture people for moral reasons.

You stop crimes with all the boring preventative work not ever increasing punishments.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Ricin is made from beans, terrorist training manuals are available on Google. He wasn’t getting crates delivered with Acme Bioweapons stamped on them and Abu Hamza dropping the post around.

Not know what your teenage son is up to isn’t a crime. Inciting violence during ongoing riots is.

I really think you are understating things a bit with that comment about not knowing what your teenage kids are up to.
He wasn't out shoplifting and fingering girls in phone boxes. He was creating biological weapons, had an armoury of weapons and the week before had tried to do the same thing.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

That’s true
More and more I’m convinced that each person is responsible for themselves and if the police and security services and government made decisions based on public safety then they aren’t responsible for the ratcheting up of those tensions and the riots the people that ratcheted things up and took part in the riots are
Similar for us lot too and for this wankers parents. There is a level of human culpability for how their child turned out as evo said about adultery is scummy but not illegal. I’m not convinced any of us dads and maybe some mums could have dealt with this any differently

I also recognise if they were and are big xians maybe they thought prayer would bring about a miraculous change. Again fuckin stupid but I do feel it’s wrong to lump them in with their wanker of a son

I can absolutely see from personal and friends experience how a predilection for violence unchallenged can lead to disaster. Same with sex same with greed same with power etc etc

Im sorry genuinely if my defending of the parents or system has added to anyone’s anger and frustration and sadness at what this person did

I value each of you and your opinions a lot (some less who accuse me of supporting child abuse) but that’s one or two tops. The rest of you being willing to express opinions broadens my life experience and helps me consider different approaches to things I hold as sacrosanct.
Like the value of each human life
Like the possibility of restoration whether deserved or not
Like the power of forgiveness to turn one’s life around

Pete I am sure that if you and everyone on here were in their position you would have acted differently. I certainly wouldn't have allowed my kids to have any weapon of any sort in the house.
The fact that he did the same thing the week before and his dad didn't take it further means that he is every bit as culpable in my eyes and that before you consider the Machete, arrows etc he had allowed him to have.

 

[MalcSB]

No punishment deters, that’s not the reason we punish. You have prison sentences mainly to remove them from the streets so they can’t reoffend. We don’t kill or torture people for moral reasons.

You stop crimes with all the boring preventative work not ever increasing punishments.

It sounds as if the boring preventative work wasn’t applied here. He was a known danger and fuck all was done to stop him. That had a huge bearing on the extreme reaction on social media.