Southport Stabbing (12 Viewers)

[MalcSB]

“we have cut far too much and need to restore funding if we want things to work again” isn’t an excuse. It’s reality. Ukraine and immigrants is an excuse because it’s got fuck all to do with anything. These are mostly short term one off costs that come from the aid budget not ongoing costs that we need to pay year on year regardless.

Have you tried to get a kid a CAMHS appointment recently? Have you been through the courts recently? I have. The idea that these services can identify and process troubled kids when they can’t do the basics right now is fairytale stuff.

FFS even the immigrants in hotels thing is entirely because we cut processing to the bone so have to keep them here while we process them. If the systems worked that wouldn’t be an issue.

We could have sent them to Rwanda. But for bleeding heart liberal human rights lawyers.

I Starmer is wanting to stop people vexatiously blocking things, he could have a go at that.

Oh, wait a minute. He is a bleeding heart human rights lawyer who may be unemployed in 5 years time. At least he has his Act of Parliament backed special pension to fall back on.

 

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[MalcSB]

It definitely needs a knife task force doesn’t it
This has to be a marker in the sand like dunblane was
It’s why the immigration and Islam arguments aren’t helpful
They are for other conversations but not for this
Cooper needs to step up and be counted it’s an opportunity to do something to be proud of

Stop and search would help. Fuck the inevitable protests and claims of discrimination.

 

[shmmeee]

We could have sent them to Rwanda. But for bleeding heart liberal human rights lawyers.

I Starmer is wanting to stop people vexatiously blocking things, he could have a go at that.

Oh, wait a minute. He is a bleeding heart human rights lawyer who may be unemployed in 5 years time. At least he has his Act of Parliament backed special pension to fall back on.

Lawyers don’t write the laws they just make sure they’re applied.

And Rwanda wasn’t free. It cost £170k per person plus £370m over five years.

 

[MalcSB]

I said I had never carried a knife, and neither had my mates... Let's not get into making shit up again.

As I said, he should have been charged the second time but wasn't. You can go on about agencies like CAHMS all you want, but at that point, it had escalated way above them.

No, ideally, people do their jobs properly. People bringing their kids up properly would be a help, too.

Can’t even be trusted to give their kids breakfast these days. Or toilet training it seems to be claimed.

 

[MalcSB]

Lawyers don’t write the laws they just make sure they’re applied.

Some laws with more zeal than others.

In reality, for most laws it is the Police who should be making sure they are applied. Use of private e- scooters on public roads, cycling on pedestrian paths. People who have attempted assault with a bladed weapon. Etc.

 

[shmmeee]

Some laws with more zeal than others.

Usually the laws relevant to the cases they’re trying yes. Why does it always end up with a complete disregard for justice and the law on the land?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Stop and search would help. Fuck the inevitable protests and claims of discrimination.

I hear you in terms of negatively attacking discrimination but it’s important cos not basing stop and search on risk means is less effective
In my line of work we used to just go after cash businesses as they were pocketing the money of course. But then you are looking at only one sector of the country. Much better to follow analytical modelling as it would be here

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Usually the laws relevant to the cases they’re trying yes. Why does it always end up with a complete disregard for justice and the law on the land?

Not strictly true those that want us to come out of the echr don’t realise that the protections enshrined affect them as much as those they don’t want it to be used to protect

 

[PVA]

We could have sent them to Rwanda. But for bleeding heart liberal human rights lawyers.

I Starmer is wanting to stop people vexatiously blocking things, he could have a go at that.

Oh, wait a minute. He is a bleeding heart human rights lawyer who may be unemployed in 5 years time. At least he has his Act of Parliament backed special pension to fall back on.

More migrants have been deported in the past 6 months than at any time in the last 7 years.

It's incredible that you complain about the cost of housing migrants etc while simultaneously praising the Rwanda scheme, which cost £715m to send 4 (yes, four) people to Rwanda.

And would have cost around £3 billion to send the same number of people that have been deported in the last 6 months.

 

[shmmeee]

We’re already stopping 2 in every 100 people in London from the looks of it…

Stop and search

Between April 2022 and March 2023, there were 24.5 stop and searches for every 1,000 black people in England and Wales. There were 5.9 for every 1,000 white people.

www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk

 

[shmmeee]

Not strictly true those that want us to come out of the echr don’t realise that the protections enshrined affect them as much as those they don’t want it to be used to protect

They’re welcome to want that, but we live governed by laws not what people want the laws to be. If they can get a majority in parliament to change the laws then more power to them.

 

[MalcSB]

I hear you in terms of negatively attacking discrimination but it’s important cos not basing stop and search on risk means is less effective
In my line of work we used to just go after cash businesses as they were pocketing the money of course. But then you are looking at only one sector of the country. Much better to follow analytical modelling as it would be here

Exactly. Certain sections of the community play the discrimination card, but a risk, almost an actuarial approach, would suggest that they are exactly the community most likely to be carrying knives and also the most likely to be injured or killed by a knife ( as I recall some stats from a wee while ago. If someone can prove im wrong, happy to apologise.

 

[shmmeee]

Exactly. Certain sections of the community play the discrimination card, but a risk, almost an actuarial approach, would suggest that they are exactly the community most likely to be carrying knives and also the most likely to be injured or killed by a knife ( as I recall some stats from a wee while ago. If someone can prove im wrong, happy to apologise.

No arguments here. The numbers are skewed in both crime stats and stop and search stats (where black people are massively overrepresented) because inner city and younger populations are both more likely to be non white and more likely to be involved in crime than rural or older people.

 

[shmmeee]

Didn’t expect this so soon but a good example of free speech online vs safety. I’m not sure what good this would do tbh the internet is very much a genie out of its bottle.

X refuses to remove stabbing video watched by Southport killer

Axel Rudakubana was able to view Australian clip before murdering three young children despite pleas from authorities

www.ft.com

 

[Marty]

The death penalty is in place in every Caribbean country except Dominican Republic and Haiti, both of which abolished it decades before Starmer had anything to do with it.

My mistake, it was the mandatory death penalty for murder in Jamaica.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Didn’t expect this so soon but a good example of free speech online vs safety. I’m not sure what good this would do tbh the internet is very much a genie out of its bottle.

X refuses to remove stabbing video watched by Southport killer

Axel Rudakubana was able to view Australian clip before murdering three young children despite pleas from authorities

www.ft.com

Small steps is it not worth doing what you can?

 

[shmmeee]

My mistake, it was the mandatory death penalty for murder in Jamaica.

You mean Starmer defended four Jamaicans on a death penalty charge? He didn’t change the laws

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You mean Starmer defended four Jamaicans on a death penalty charge? He didn’t change the laws

Racist wanker that he is our keir

 

[Marty]

Racist wanker that he is our keir

You're such a small strange man.

 

[shmmeee]

Small steps is it not worth doing what you can?

Just not sure it’s practical. First thing every kid learns is how to circumnavigate internet blocks. We’ve not stopped piracy or porn I’m not sure how we’d get on with violent content.

There’s a reasonable argument for a British social media that doesn’t have US interpretations of free speech. But we’ve seen we can’t control the likes of Twitter and Facebook from here.

 

[MalcSB]

Racist wanker that he is our keir

Racism doesn't only work one way.

I recall being called a white honky by an asian chap at work in the early 70's.

 

[shmmeee]

Racism doesn't only work one way.

I recall being called a white honky by an asian chap at work in the early 70's.

Isn’t that like being called a black n****r? Seems a bit redundant. I’m not sure anyone claimed racism only works one way.

Well nobody outside of fringe student politics.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Just not sure it’s practical. First thing every kid learns is how to circumnavigate internet blocks. We’ve not stopped piracy or porn I’m not sure how we’d get on with violent content.

There’s a reasonable argument for a British social media that doesn’t have US interpretations of free speech. But we’ve seen we can’t control the likes of Twitter and Facebook from here.

Very true

 

[MalcSB]

More migrants have been deported in the past 6 months than at any time in the last 7 years.

It's incredible that you complain about the cost of housing migrants etc while simultaneously praising the Rwanda scheme, which cost £715m to send 4 (yes, four) people to Rwanda.

And would have cost around £3 billion to send the same number of people that have been deported in the last 6 months.

If you have paid non refundable fees up front to enable infrastructure to be put in place and then cancel the scheme, isn't it bound to look extortionate on a per capita basis (£179 m each). If you then use that artificial high cost to calculate the total cost of sending the number deported since election (13,500 is the figure I have found Deportations reach five-year high despite concerns of rights groups. I assume the source is good enough).

That comes out at @ £2.4 billion.

Im not as easily convinced as most of you.

 

[MalcSB]

Isn’t that like being called a black n****r? Seems a bit redundant. I’m not sure anyone claimed racism only works one way.

Well nobody outside of fringe student politics.

It's what was said at the time. If we had said something similar in return, we would have been in deep shit.

My post was in response to what was probably a bit of sarcasm about Kier NOT being a racist. If you excessively support one ethnicity over another, is that not a form of racism?

 

[MalcSB]

Reoffending rates, % reoffending by age chart

Average 26.85%

Boomers 15.7%

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It's what was said at the time. If we had said something similar in return, we would have been in deep shit.

My post was in response to what was probably a bit of sarcasm about Kier NOT being a racist. If you excessively support one ethnicity over another, is that not a form of racism?

That was my point really sarcastically made
I have a friend who works as an immigration lawyer at the coventry refugee centre
All of her cases involve immigrants
She’s not favouring immigrants in her work over British born people needing help from the refugeee centre it’s her job lol

 

[MalcSB]

That was my point really sarcastically made
I have a friend who works as an immigration lawyer at the coventry refugee centre
All of her cases involve immigrants
She’s not favouring immigrants in her work over British born people needing help from the refugeee centre it’s her job lol

Starmer is currently Prime Minister, not a KC taking human rights cases. But old habits die hard.

 

[shmmeee]

If you have paid non refundable fees up front to enable infrastructure to be put in place and then cancel the scheme, isn't it bound to look extortionate on a per capita basis (£179 m each). If you then use that artificial high cost to calculate the total cost of sending the number deported since election (13,500 is the figure I have found Deportations reach five-year high despite concerns of rights groups. I assume the source is good enough).

That comes out at @ £2.4 billion.

Im not as easily convinced as most of you.

I gave the costs according to the national audit office. It’s more expensive to send to Rwanda than to process here is the headline. It was about virtue signalling not effective policy. The Tories massively increased immigration and hid it by being performatively cruel to a tiny minority of immigrants.

 

[shmmeee]

Starmer is currently Prime Minister, not a KC taking human rights cases. But old habits die hard.

Other than your desire to blame Starmer for everything why do you say this? You’ve been told that deportations have gone up under Labour.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Starmer is currently Prime Minister, not a KC taking human rights cases. But old habits die hard.

I think it’s as much, if not more, peoples perceptions dying harder but we can argue over a pint on that one

 

[PVA]

If you have paid non refundable fees up front to enable infrastructure to be put in place and then cancel the scheme, isn't it bound to look extortionate on a per capita basis (£179 m each). If you then use that artificial high cost to calculate the total cost of sending the number deported since election (13,500 is the figure I have found Deportations reach five-year high despite concerns of rights groups. I assume the source is good enough).

That comes out at @ £2.4 billion.

Im not as easily convinced as most of you.

The maths has already been done.

The uncertain financial implications of the UK’s Rwanda policy - Migration Observatory

This commentary examines the financial impacts of the UK’s policy to send some asylum seekers and irregular migrants to Rwanda.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk

It cost approx £41k to house and support an asylum seeker for 12 months in 2023.

Sending 1,000 people to Rwanda would cost £700m per person. Quite the difference I'm sure you'll agree.

Even if you sent 50,000 people, which obviously was never going to happen, it would cost approx £200m per person.

Totally ineffective and absurdly expensive.

Excellent red meat though.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I gave the costs according to the national audit office. It’s more expensive to send to Rwanda than to process here is the headline. It was about virtue signalling not effective policy. The Tories massively increased immigration and hid it by being performatively cruel to a tiny minority of immigrants.

And worse claiming it would reduce immigration by having a deterrent something they wouldn’t need to prove if it didn’t ever happen

 

[Marty]

The maths has already been done.

The uncertain financial implications of the UK’s Rwanda policy - Migration Observatory

This commentary examines the financial impacts of the UK’s policy to send some asylum seekers and irregular migrants to Rwanda.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk

It cost approx £41k to house and support an asylum seeker for 12 months in 2023.

Sending 1,000 people to Rwanda would cost £700m per person. Quite the difference I'm sure you'll agree.

Even if you sent 50,000 people, which obviously was never going to happen, it would cost approx £200m per person.

Totally ineffective and absurdly expensive.

Excellent red meat though.

What a colossal waste of money.