He's saying that if we had a 10mill loan with the bank each month we'd have to give them 200k (for example), but with a 10mill loan with avro we don't give them the 200k, it just gets added onto what we owe them.
Weather or not that is true I don't know. I'd suspect the investors wouldn't be happy with that, so I'd guess (and I am guessing) that something in the middle is true, where the investors get money each month and the amount we owe arvo grows.
Garlick seems to hate the Ricoh.
CBRE lady seemed to be reading prewritten script and looked shit scared.
Architect guy seemed confident.
Architect says plan is modular, 12>15>20-25k but site allows further expansion to say 30k by enlarging the envelope. Highways planning for final capacity would need granting at first stage so no hitches. Capacity upgrade would take roughly 6-9 months with that stadium "still playable".
We will get input on interior decoration, what we want in the "fans zone" (And here was me thinking the whole stadium was a fans zone) in terms of which pie and pint stands we want. Kept going on about how we were never consulted about the Ricoh.
Questions were either unanswerable or drivel about wanting the tunnel to come out near the fans.
Garlick claims it's her forum and the club will be invited in later , though a CCFC employee seemed to be checking names on the door, she wet to great lengths to say he has no current commercial relationship with the club. There as a fan.
Might have different colour seats to Sky blue as apparently the players complain they can't see each other when the Ricoh is empty.
will have community features ("you know for the youngsters and um...the community") not sure what yet.
lots of car parking will be available. Wants consultation on other transport links.
corporate seats not behind glass, part of the action.
So two questions: won't that mean higher repayment terms overall due to compound interest? Aren't we just building up a time bomb if Sisu don't realise value in the club making it more likely we get a catastrophic liquidation rather than a smooth transition to sustainable ownership?
Well her only explanation/evidence she was willing to say (per the Telegraph) was why would they go to all this trouble if they weren't serious. That's a bit like when my girlfriend comes home and asks why I've gone to the trouble of clearing my Internet history. Maybe we're both hiding something.
don't get hung up on comments in the press or from the owners how the individual companies seem to owe this or that. In terms of finance SISU have provided then you need to look at the group situation in total
At 31/05/12 the Group owed.....
SISU £28,554,706
ARVO £ 8,025,814
£36,580,520 in total .............. still a huge sum but not £60m
There have been amendments to that since 31/05/12 but it will not have grown by 24m. A guess is that there were losses £3.5m to 31/05/13 plus losses to date say 1.5m. I doubt the overall debt is more than £42m still too much obviously
Actually the 2012 SBS&L Group accounts show that £980,737 interest was actually paid out and in 2011 £465,112. I do not think the interest due to ARVO and any very short term lender is being rolled up, it looks like it is being paid over
How much of that debt was in Ltd before they bought Ltd for 1.5m? Obviously the 1.5m will be added to the overall debt, but the losses in Ltd are liquidated at approx 0.5 pence in the pound I believe?
Don t think you understand how a group situation works. None of that debt was in CCFC Ltd. The debt in CCFC Ltd was paper transactions and old debt that was discounted when SISU took over but never taken out of CCFC Ltd accs.
The real money transactions were the amounts that the SISU investors put in to SBS&L (the head of the Group) and the loans that ARVO put in to CCFC H and Otium. The CCFC H debt being swept up on reorganisation and repaid to be lent again but this time to Otium. The 5p in the £ has no relevance at all.
You have to look at the finance that has come from external sources not the debt between the group members which is internal
So have I got this right..
~ARVO £8M loans on which about £1M p.a. interest is paid
~ SISU £28.5M investment on which no interest is paid and a return is 'hoped' for
~ SISU own all the assets of the club and have a charge against them and 'future' profits
In summary the club's assets are ..
~ Golden Share
~ Player Contracts
~ Ryton
~ Miscellaneous, like club shop stock.
If the Ricoh is worth £6M, then what is this worth, £1 or £2M being generous?
This figure that ML & TF float around is very misleading. This is the paper value of ACL which has an approx 40yr lease. ACL mortgage is 14m and hence why Sisu were trying to get it on the cheap and why we are in this mess.
The bricks and mortar of the Ricoh are effectively part of the freehold, which is worth? Who knows they won't have an independent valuation done
Who says this is the paper value of ACL?
it is the distressed security value for Yorkshire Bank of ACL excluding any income from football as at December 2012. It is nothing like a going concern value or even a current value.
Yes
We were heading for third tier long before SISU arrived. Did we ever look like getting into the Playoffs in the 10 years of Championship football - No. After a couple of seasons we were back in familier territory of being near the bottom, we applauded ourselves in saving ourselves from relegation when Southampton and Norwich were relegated instead. Look where we are now relative to them.
Why - The debt was a noose around our necks - Now we have got rid of the original debt, the supporters have decided not to support the Club so it is now building up a new debt - that will need to be paid off in the future.
The future has to be a sustainable Club and at least we now have the owners who realise now how to run the Club and make it sustainable
Yes a typical fan will not like sustainability but prefer some rich guy to bankroll the club - those days are now over.
Its upto the supporters to ensure the Club receives an income that give the Club a fighting chance of promotion.
Going back to the RICOH with its heavy overhead charges from ACL, even when its claimed to be rent free, will not help us in the long term.
Why are the majority of City supporters wanting promotion but not willing to support them financially, how can that work.
Actually the 2012 SBS&L Group accounts show that £980,737 interest was actually paid out and in 2011 £465,112. I do not think the interest due to ARVO and any very short term lender is being rolled up, it looks like it is being paid over
Yes
We were heading for third tier long before SISU arrived. Did we ever look like getting into the Playoffs in the 10 years of Championship football - No. After a couple of seasons we were back in familier territory of being near the bottom, we applauded ourselves in saving ourselves from relegation when Southampton and Norwich were relegated instead. Look where we are now relative to them.
Why - The debt was a noose around our necks - Now we have got rid of the original debt, the supporters have decided not to support the Club so it is now building up a new debt - that will need to be paid off in the future.
The future has to be a sustainable Club and at least we now have the owners who realise now how to run the Club and make it sustainable
Yes a typical fan will not like sustainability but prefer some rich guy to bankroll the club - those days are now over.
Its upto the supporters to ensure the Club receives an income that give the Club a fighting chance of promotion.
Going back to the RICOH with its heavy overhead charges from ACL, even when its claimed to be rent free, will not help us in the long term.
Why are the majority of City supporters wanting promotion but not willing to support them financially, how can that work.
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