Sterling negativity (3 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

I do think Sterling being first choice is a bit unfair on Grimmer, however. Grimmer's sole appearance this season saw him culpable for Oxford's second goal. That was sandwiched by two games where Sterling played and we kept a clean sheet.

 

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[Warwickhunt]

not negative about the young lad at this stage but MR must manage his game time better and recognise the fact that other teams will target him during the game and have enough nous on the field to add protection behind him when i tries a sortie going forward! 18 year old are up and down in their performace levels and MR need to nurture him through the rough patches

 

[Magwitch]

I agree entirely. I think rich clubs hoarding lots of young talent (in many cases not because they think they're going to be good enough just that they don't want anyone else to benefit) is detrimental to the game overall and the international team.

For me, I'd bring in a maximum squad, say 40, of players on pro contracts. Doesn't matter what age, nationality etc - 40 max. That'd put a lot of these youngsters available for free at the end of their academy contracts, giving teams lower down the pyramid the chance to bring on better players and upping the overall standard as well as potentially levelling out the competition somewhat and making it more competitive. Other clubs have to put up with (and often pay a fee) for the errors as they learn and then the parent club gets a finished article for a relatively inexpensive initial outlay. Grossly unfair system.

In financial terms I think it'd lead to a huge disparity in wages because even more funds would become available to pay the top level players but I'm not overly bothered about truly top class individuals being highly paid. It's when you've got youngsters (essentially trainees), who've never played a first team game, on contracts 5x+ what first team regulars are on just a league or two further down. Imagine the office junior/intern on a wage many executives would be happy with!

Besides that it'd be good for the players development, getting into 'proper' games at men's level than U23/reserve level. So much potential is wasted in players sitting on pretty lucrative contracts until 24-25 when they end up being released and then struggle to cope when they have to face the realisation of what football is like for the vast majority of players because they've never experienced it.

Another thing that I'd consider is the U24 compensation rule being altered so that no compensation is due if said player hasn't played a first team/league game for their parent club in the previous season.

Shame JH isn't around for a second revolution!

Agree 100% and I’d go so far to say young Sterling has little chance of first team regular football at Chelsea hope I’m proved wrong though. What the parent clubs do, especially the Premiership clubs but championship clubs are doing it now too, Derby just have with Luke Thomas, is bang them on a 3/4 year deal thus nailing him to the floor see and how they get on. But what happens generally is at 23/24 players are looking for clubs but have hardly any first team games under their belts. We have just seen Adam Armstrong get a transfer to Blackburn, his first senior club, 4 years after hitting the headlines with us, his performances here should have been enough to earn him first team action at Newcastle, but on the flip side he will be a rich young man.

 

[CCFCSteve]

The problems both Grimmer and Sterling have is that they are o9ften let down by the midfielder playing in front of them not giving them enough cover. Sterling is especially vulnerable as Bayliss is (justifiably) often playing higher up the field - the first goal against Scunthorpe was a perfect illustration - Bayliss lost the ball, Scunthorpe broke and Sterling was exposed and they duly scored. Not entirely Sterling's fault - as many have said, it's a big difference in playing L1 football to Premiership U23/Youth games.
We should, at least while the game is being played, give our whole-hearted support to every player, and then analyse their performance fairly after the event.

Agree. The players haven't quite got to grips with the formation yet. If bayliss is high up the pitch then Ogogo or Doyle should be covering in behind so if they attack down the right Sterling has cover.

Also agree with comments on loans and big clubs hoarding young players. Its wrong and reckon it stifles the development of so many, one loan fair enough but bouncing around various clubs for 3-4 years, all with differing styles of play etc, cant be good for a young lad. Hopefully players (even if not their agents !) are getting wise to this. Nice to see a number of young lads going abroad for example

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think one of the few potential upsides of loans is that it enables young players to get to know more systems making them more versatile and get out more into the world and stand on their own feet. As much as I don't like loans it's probably better for the individual to be playing in a league rather than reserves. As you say it's nice to see more young lads going abroad because they'll teach teams different things to home based teams i'e' you'd expect going to Spain to improve their technical ability, Italy defensive/dark arts and Germany tactical awareness. A bit simplistic I know but in general the point stands.

 

[lord_garrincha]

Before he signed, Sterling was being touted as some Cafu type figure, despite never starting a league game, which a) is unfair; and b) yet to be realised.

However, he made some excellent defensive blocks 2nd half on Saturday, especially in the 18-yard box tucking in behind the CBs which is supposedly not his strength, a defensive area where Grimmer (prob being a tad harsh) is useless - Notts County 2nd leg and 2 goals against Lincoln at home coming straight to my mind amongst others.

So is he worth persevering with by starting him... absolutely yes.
Is it harsh on Grimmer being dropped... yes, but that is football. Who is to say Sterling will not pick up a knock.

 

[Nick]

He cleared off the line at Wimbledon too I think?

 

[djr8369]

Young lad, coming to terms with League 1. Also with the formation we are currently playing he doesn't really have any cover, so at times ( probably the times many people think he's ball watching etc) he has 2 players up against him. The perfect example of this was when Doyle had a go at him. However Sterling then pointed out he was actually having to cover a midfielder who had run past Abs and Doyle...

Great point. Doyle has a go at him but Bayliss hasn’t covered and then Ogogo hasn’t come across so he was caught between two attackers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The only issue I have with saying he's a young lad who'll develop in time and get better is that, while that may undoiubtedly be true, as he's only on loan to us, we get the (inevitable) growing pains of a teenager finding his way in pro football, whilst his parent club get the benefit of any improvement.

To justify being here on loan he has to be better than the man in possession of the shirt last season (Grimmer) from the off... if he's to be played each week. It's not like we're investing in him for our future.

Now obviously it'd be ridiculous to write him off after so few games, and it seems the trend has been that he improves with each game, but if he doesn't, he has to be dropped.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It does seem odd that clubs (including ourselves at times) seem more willing to give young loanees time to grow and make mistakes but are more reluctant with their own youngsters, despite the fact they'd see more benefit from their own youngsters long term.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

There were only 5 words in his post, 3 out of 5 isn't bad

Quoting Meatloaf, eh ?

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

I agree entirely. I think rich clubs hoarding lots of young talent (in many cases not because they think they're going to be good enough just that they don't want anyone else to benefit) is detrimental to the game overall and the international team.

For me, I'd bring in a maximum squad, say 40, of players on pro contracts. Doesn't matter what age, nationality etc - 40 max. That'd put a lot of these youngsters available for free at the end of their academy contracts, giving teams lower down the pyramid the chance to bring on better players and upping the overall standard as well as potentially levelling out the competition somewhat and making it more competitive. Other clubs have to put up with (and often pay a fee) for the errors as they learn and then the parent club gets a finished article for a relatively inexpensive initial outlay. Grossly unfair system.

In financial terms I think it'd lead to a huge disparity in wages because even more funds would become available to pay the top level players but I'm not overly bothered about truly top class individuals being highly paid. It's when you've got youngsters (essentially trainees), who've never played a first team game, on contracts 5x+ what first team regulars are on just a league or two further down. Imagine the office junior/intern on a wage many executives would be happy with!

Besides that it'd be good for the players development, getting into 'proper' games at men's level than U23/reserve level. So much potential is wasted in players sitting on pretty lucrative contracts until 24-25 when they end up being released and then struggle to cope when they have to face the realisation of what football is like for the vast majority of players because they've never experienced it.

Another thing that I'd consider is the U24 compensation rule being altered so that no compensation is due if said player hasn't played a first team/league game for their parent club in the previous season.

Shame JH isn't around for a second revolution!

Care to expand on the above? Actually I'm going to give you a like as I agree with nearly all you've said.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What would you like me to expand on?

I think most of the things for discussion are ways clubs would look to get round the rules. You do see things like 'signed on non-contract basis' which I'm not sure how that works. Maybe offering a kid a lucrative contract not as a pro footballer but, say, groundsman, physio, nutritionist, data analyst etc to keep them from the clutches of others. But then they wouldn't be able to play and have the problem of explaining why the tea boy was training with the team. Maybe they could get away with playing them as trialists but I'm sure there's a maximum trial period and/or number of games trialists can play anyway.

I think the biggest problem would be clubs buying lower leagues teams to effectively be their reserve/feeder teams which would still see many of the benefits of better football but deep down fans of that team would be faced with the prospect of knowing they could never be top of the tree.

I went for 40 as a base figure because it's roughly 3.5 players for each position which should be more than enough to cover injuries, and in the unlikely even they were that unlucky with injuries they'd either have to play someone out of position or dip into academy teams. I don't want an injury reserve list like in American sports because that's ripe for abuse as they'd just claim loads of the youngsters were injured for months/years on end.

You'd hope the players themselves (and even their agents) wouldn't stand for that crap and prefer to get a pro contract somewhere else, but for some money talks. Although you could argue if a young player did go for it they're not going to be a great loss to the game as clearly £££ means more to them.

Ta for the like anyway

 

[Gibbo]

I have only seen him once and he was utter dross, comfortably our worst player. he may be better at full back. I don't care if he is 19 and just learning the ropes, let him learn at someone else's expense - we need players who get us wins. Unless he is a better full back than wing midfielder, I would drop him. Personally I thought Grimmer looked quite good at Oxford (unlike some) and he was also better than Sterling as a wing midfielder in terms of penetration and passes. This is nothing to do with expectations and hype, just the 90 minutes I saw.

 

[jordan210]

First post on team news on Facebook

Can we drop Sterling already!? He’s absolutely useless

 

[Greggs]

Was caught the wrong side Saturday, but recovered nicely. Looks a decent player

 

[vow]

One half decent game out of 5 isn't good enough, drop him for Grimmer.

 

[Otis]

Now this is a mad theory and one just conjured up in my head, but....... I decided to share it anyway.

Is there any possibility that the squad isn't happy due to the fact there's this unwritten law whereby Chelsea have suggested that Sterling needs to be playing every week and the squad aren't happy about it and also added to that, that Jack Grimmer is a very popular player at the club.

Maybe bonkers, but I know if we say sent Ponticelli down to a non-league club we would want him to be playing every week and if he wasn't playing and just on the bench we would be thinking 'what's the point'.

 

[Grendel]

Now this is a mad theory and one just conjured up in my head, but....... I decided to share it anyway.

Is there any possibility that the squad isn't happy due to the fact there's this unwritten law whereby Chelsea have suggested that Sterling needs to be playing every week and the squad aren't happy about it and also added to that, that Jack Grimmer is a very popular player at the club.

Maybe bonkers, but I know if we say sent Ponticelli down to a non-league club we would want him to be playing every week and if he wasn't playing and just on the bench we would be thinking 'what's the point'.

Most of the squad will ever have even met Grimmer who are playing

 

[Nick]

Most of the squad will ever have even met Grimmer who are playing

Nor the manager it seems

 

[Otis]

Most of the squad will ever have even met Grimmer who are playing

No, I realise that, but when they came they must have known how popular he was and we do still have Jones and Andreu and Burge and Doyle and Kelly and Shipley and JCH and Biamou and Ponticelli and Bayliss, so a fair few existing from last year's squad.

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

Don't know how much longer we can wait for the Sterling we hoped for to produce the goods. At the moment he looks like he doesn't want the ball. He just doesn't seem a natural footballer which given his England/ Chelsea pedigree seems ridiculous.

 

[Hullinho87]

Doesn’t seem a natural footballer ... it was all un-natural that run, close control, turn of pace, strength, sharp turn and cross ...

 

[Gibbo]

and a cool brain - twice he looked up to see what was what before carrying on.

 

[Skybluefaz]

He's gone from rabbit in the headlights to confident premier league loanee.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

He's gone from rabbit in the headlights to confident premier league loanee.

Had a decent game today. Still panics occasionally as he did in second half with a clearance that almost went for a corner when it should have been up towards the half way line. Definitely improved since his horror show at Bristol though.

 

[stay_up_skyblues]

Crazy stuff. I’m starting to think that young players, who’ve never kicked a ball in a professional league, can improve after a few games. Develop even?

I’m also opening up to the possibility that players generally can improve in form, even grow into a team, the more they play.

Fuck it, I’m going to go all out and not call for the manager’s head after a loss or two, nor proclaim we will win the World Cup if we win by a couple of goals. In fact, I am going to make a judgement after 20+ games and even then support the team and see where we end up.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

He was excelllent today

 

[covcity4life]

Crazy stuff. I’m starting to think that young players, who’ve never kicked a ball in a professional league, can improve after a few games. Develop even?

I’m also opening up to the possibility that players generally can improve in form, even grow into a team, the more they play.

Fuck it, I’m going to go all out and not call for the manager’s head after a loss or two, nor proclaim we will win the World Cup if we win by a couple of goals. In fact, I am going to make a judgement after 20+ games and even then support the team and see where we end up.

Weirdo!