Take the knee (1 Viewer)

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2020

chiefdave said:
How have you come to that conclusion? Millwall released a statement before the last game explicity stating they weren't taking the knee in support of BLM, something I don't think any other club had to do.

If you think the booing was for reasons other than racism you might want to take a look at the responses from their fans to that statement. Or the responses from their fans to what happened at the weekend.

I've already covered this.

Millwall have a reputation for a reason. That still does not mean booing taking the knee is a racist gesture. A lot of people disagree with the statement. Rather than calling everyone a racist under that category, perhaps a bit of common sense needs to be applied.

Jamesimus · Dec 8, 2020

Black Lives Matter has increased racial tension, 55% say in UK poll

Organisers of BLM say findings show movement has exposed pre-existing fault lines

www.theguardian.com

I suppose everyone in that poll is racist too?
[/QUOTE]

Nah not everyone, just fucking loads of them

David O'Day · Dec 8, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
That's why they coin the term 'silent majority'. No evidence that people think like them so they just take it that there are loads of people too scared to say what they truly think and agree with the general consensus to fit in.

When the simplest and most likely explanation is that they just don't think like you.

It's confirmation bias really isn't it. They see people on twitter spouting the same views as them so they think that everyone thinks they same forgetting that they only follow people who think like them. It's the same issue the far left have as well.

People like Earlsdon need to realise that the vast majority of people if questioned about their views on the links between BLM and Marxism would say "what are you talking about".

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2020

David O'Day said:
Why do racists always think that the majority of people think like them when all evidence says that the majority of people don't?

You are probably one of the most divisive people on this thread, if not the forum. It's a disgrace that you try and take such a moral high ground on an issue as serious as this.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2020

Jamesimus said:
Black Lives Matter has increased racial tension, 55% say in UK poll

Organisers of BLM say findings show movement has exposed pre-existing fault lines

www.theguardian.com

I suppose everyone in that poll is racist too?

Nah not everyone, just fucking loads of them
[/QUOTE]

I suggest you look at the poll again. A lot of people who voted were from BAME backgrounds (hate to use that term, but there you go).

Jamesimus · Dec 8, 2020

David O'Day said:
People like Earlsdon need to realise that the vast majority of people if questioned about their views on the links between BLM and Marxism would say "what are you talking about".

No, Millwall love the police and capitalism has worked wonders for their community, they need to defend these things...

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2020

David O'Day said:
It's confirmation bias really isn't it. They see people on twitter spouting the same views as them so they think that everyone thinks they same forgetting that they only follow people who think like them. It's the same issue the far left have as well.

People like Earlsdon need to realise that the vast majority of people if questioned about their views on the links between BLM and Marxism would say "what are you talking about".

The only thing I'm interested in is to end division and have racial equality. Which is more than can be said for you. You love to pitch people against each other for some reason. Call everyone racist etc etc.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 8, 2020

Otis said:
Can't say I think this is the way to go. Millwall players kneel, Millwall fans boo. Next game, Millwall players don't take the knee, Millwall fans win.

Does come across a bit like that doesn't it?

Does seem like they've given it at the first hurdle. Going to do nothing but embolden the racists.

I'm not a big fan of the kneeling now - it should be voluntary but it feels obligatory and you'll be ripped to shreds if you chose not to do it.

TomRad85 · Dec 8, 2020

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You are probably one of the most divisive people on this thread, if not the forum. It's a disgrace that you try and take such a moral high ground on an issue as serious as this.

He's not that divisive. The majority think he's a c**t and not just the silent ones.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Jamesimus · Dec 8, 2020

Jamesimus said:
Black Lives Matter has increased racial tension, 55% say in UK poll

Organisers of BLM say findings show movement has exposed pre-existing fault lines

www.theguardian.com

I suppose everyone in that poll is racist too?

Nah not everyone, just fucking loads of them
[/QUOTE]

To be fair, I wrongly assumed it would be an anti-BLM thing, which it isn't.

I certainly wouldn't disagree that racial tensions have been made worse and that's an extremely unfortunate side effect (one that you wouldn't have if racism wasn't a thing).

Obviously people are finding out about uncomfortable truths and there is a shift in power occurring, people get upset.

*Apologies, having to edit posts, very bad at using the forum haha

Skybluefaz · Dec 8, 2020

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
BLM is not that whatsoever. It is a divisive piece of activism that has done nothing but set race relations back.

Black Lives Matter has increased racial tension, 55% say in UK poll

Organisers of BLM say findings show movement has exposed pre-existing fault lines

www.theguardian.com

I suppose everyone in that poll is racist too?

I think it's fair to say that it's raised racial tension. That is a result of challenging things. It's exposed a lot of people. I don't think you are a racist if you acknowledge the fact it has raised tension.

David O'Day · Dec 8, 2020

Jamesimus said:
Black Lives Matter has increased racial tension, 55% say in UK poll

Organisers of BLM say findings show movement has exposed pre-existing fault lines

www.theguardian.com

I suppose everyone in that poll is racist too?

Nah not everyone, just fucking loads of them
[/QUOTE]

Also the majority of polling shows people are broadly supportive of the aims of BLM

David O'Day · Dec 8, 2020

Skybluefaz said:
I think it's fair to say that it's raised racial tension. That is a result of challenging things. It's exposed a lot of people. I don't think you are a racist if you acknowledge the fact it has raised tension.

Yes it has raised racial tension as racists when challenged are more open in their racism which leads to tension.

shmmeee · Dec 8, 2020

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
BLM is not that whatsoever. It is a divisive piece of activism that has done nothing but set race relations back.

Black Lives Matter has increased racial tension, 55% say in UK poll

Organisers of BLM say findings show movement has exposed pre-existing fault lines

www.theguardian.com

I suppose everyone in that poll is racist too?

That same poll has 66% who think BLM is about equality too. The click bait headline you’ve gone for doesn’t mean 55% think BLM is bad, someone who thinks it’s roused the racists but is overall good would also be in there.

David O'Day · Dec 8, 2020

Also would any Millwall fan or ESB even be able to explain where the Communist Manifesto or Das Kapital it even mentions the social liberalism they seem to hate?

Marxism is an economic ideology about the ownership of the means of production. If you are going to use terms at least understand what they mean.

Otis · Dec 8, 2020

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
BLM is not that whatsoever. It is a divisive piece of activism that has done nothing but set race relations back.

Black Lives Matter has increased racial tension, 55% say in UK poll

Organisers of BLM say findings show movement has exposed pre-existing fault lines

www.theguardian.com

I suppose everyone in that poll is racist too?

BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT

Black Lives Matter is an international human rights movement - Black Lives Matter Movement UK is for revolutionary change. We believe racism transcends politics. Our campaigns are against anti-black violence and systemic racism towards Black people of African descent and heritage.

blacklivesmatter.uk

shmmeee · Dec 8, 2020

I think it’s pretty clear that this got culture warred. The split is pretty solid 40/55 Tory/everyone else Old/Young. Same as Brexit. Same as half the stuff these days.

A huge shame something this important got that TBF. And all the more amazing that the U.K. managed to avoid culture warring the pandemic despite the attempts by the usual suspects.

Nick · Dec 8, 2020

Otis said:
BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT

Black Lives Matter is an international human rights movement - Black Lives Matter Movement UK is for revolutionary change. We believe racism transcends politics. Our campaigns are against anti-black violence and systemic racism towards Black people of African descent and heritage.

blacklivesmatter.uk

If they aren't affliated to the other UK one and the US one, why use the same name?

This is what I don't get, the website was setup in June and George Flloyd was killed in May. So if they didn't want to be affiliated then why not pick a different term?

It is more to me that everybody jumped on the BLM stuff without realising what the US one (and that UK version linked to the US version) stood for.

If I didn't want to be clouded with the BNP, I wouldnt go and buy BNP.org.uk when they use BNP.co.uk and wonder why people think it's the same.

Much easier to steer clear of BLM and use a different name that makes it clear, "everybody against racism" etc etc.

Nick · Dec 8, 2020

He has a point:

wingy · Dec 8, 2020

I was going to start a thread but my god there are a plethora been going on for month's.
My question is , Is xenophobia an innate instinct ?

Edit:- if so what makes some of us able to overcome it ,yet others not?

chiefdave · Dec 8, 2020

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I suggest you look at the poll again. A lot of people who voted were from BAME backgrounds (hate to use that term, but there you go).

White people were more likely to believe that the BLM movement, which was given fresh momentum by global outrage at the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis in May, had increased racial tensions

David O'Day · Dec 8, 2020

chiefdave · Dec 8, 2020

Nick said:
He has a point:

He does't really as the players made a statement before the game explicitly stating it wasn't in support of a political movement.

Otis · Dec 8, 2020

Nick said:
If they aren't affliated to the other UK one and the US one, why use the same name?

This is what I don't get, the website was setup in June and George Flloyd was killed in May. So if they didn't want to be affiliated then why not pick a different term?

It is more to me that everybody jumped on the BLM stuff without realising what the US one (and that UK version linked to the US version) stood for.

If I didn't want to be clouded with the BNP, I wouldnt go and buy BNP.org.uk when they use BNP.co.uk and wonder why people think it's the same.

Much easier to steer clear of BLM and use a different name that makes it clear, "everybody against racism" etc etc.

Yes, I agree. They should have used a name that made them more easily identifiable.

chiefdave · Dec 8, 2020

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I've already covered this.

Millwall have a reputation for a reason. That still does not mean booing taking the knee is a racist gesture. A lot of people disagree with the statement. Rather than calling everyone a racist under that category, perhaps a bit of common sense needs to be applied.

I'm not sure how you could take booing of the players taking the knee as anything other than a racist gesture when the players explicitly stated they were taking a knee purely against discrimination and not in agreement with any political messaging or ideology.

Otis · Dec 8, 2020

Nick said:
He has a point:

Yes and look, racist!!!!

WHITE and Jordan.

Says it all.

Liquid Gold · Dec 8, 2020

Ho many fucking times does it need to be said

"We're choosing [indicating that they themselves have chosen this and not been forced into it] to take the knee as a gesture against racism [so an anti racist message] not in support of any ideology [so not for BLM or Marxism or anything else super scary]"

If you can't get that in to your thick fucking skull that this isn't about marxism then there is no fucking hope for you. The only two options are Millwall fans were being racist, which they have a history of, or they can't read, which given the state of a load of their fans I can believe but also dispels the notion that they are protesting a political philosophy.

MusicDating · Dec 8, 2020

chiefdave said:
He does't really as the players made a statement before the game explicitly stating it wasn't in support of a political movement.

But if you're a Millwall fan that has spent months reading the Mail, Facebook and Twitter advising that the BLM organisation is bad, then a statement from the players won't swing it.

Otis · Dec 8, 2020

MusicDating said:
But if you're a Millwall fan that has spent months reading the Mail, Facebook and Twitter advising that the BLM organisation is bad, then a statement from the players won't swing it.

Wait! What? Millwall fans can read?

shmmeee · Dec 8, 2020

Honestly don’t get how hard it is to understand there is the sentiment that Black Lives Matter as much as white ones, and there are also groups that set up under this name.

There are far right racist groups called English Democrats, I’m English and believe in democracy, but I’m not a neo nazi.

Equally I’m a tax payer and do not agree with anything the TPA shits out.

SBT · Dec 8, 2020

Nick said:
If they aren't affliated to the other UK one and the US one, why use the same name?

This is what I don't get, the website was setup in June and George Flloyd was killed in May. So if they didn't want to be affiliated then why not pick a different term?

It is more to me that everybody jumped on the BLM stuff without realising what the US one (and that UK version linked to the US version) stood for.

If I didn't want to be clouded with the BNP, I wouldnt go and buy BNP.org.uk when they use BNP.co.uk and wonder why people think it's the same.

Much easier to steer clear of BLM and use a different name that makes it clear, "everybody against racism" etc etc.

It's probably not the best analogy in the world (the BNP is a political party, BLM isn't etc)

The problem is, there's a simpler explanation for it, which is that some people - even people who don't consider themselves to be racist! - just don't seem to like anti-racist protests. And so if you keep watering it down until it's acceptable to everyone, does it have a chance of making a difference? Does it reflect the strength of the views of the athletes it's supposed to be representing?

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 8, 2020

shmmeee said:
but I’m not a neo nazi.

Well...

shmmeee · Dec 8, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
Well...

Old fashioned classic Nazi thank you. So much more style than the skinheads.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 8, 2020

shmmeee said:
Old fashioned classic Nazi thank you. So much more style than the skinheads.

Thinking about it, I do have a liking for black shirts...

Otis · Dec 8, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
Thinking about it, I do have a liking for black shirts...

And for some strange reason I've always had this desire to live in Moseley Avenue.

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