The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (116 Viewers)

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

Grendel said:
Christ are you 5 years old? All you can do is offer predictable sound bytes

Which of those policies are not socialist regression strategies and how do they pioneer growth and free enterprise

This from a guy who tells other posters to crawl back up other people's arses and who contradicts himself on the same page...and still can't comment on the accuracy of his 2017 prediction.

Was the 2008 Great Recession caused by too much or too little regulation of financial services? Was it exacerbated by taxes being too low or too high? We never got round to answering that the first time round. Not because you're more likely to vote for Corbyn than to admit you're ever wrong, of course.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

SIR ERNIE said:
Remoaner

LMAO!!!!!

Grendel · Sep 7, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
This from a guy who tells other posters to crawl back up other people's arses and who contradicts himself on the same page...and still can't comment on the accuracy of his 2017 prediction.

Was the 2008 Great Recession caused by too much or too little regulation of financial services? Was it exacerbated by taxes being too low or too high? We never got round to answering that the first time round. Not because you're more likely to vote for Corbyn than to admit you're ever wrong, of course.

The 2008 recession was a global recession. Under corbynomics our situation would have been dire

Personally a Corbyn government would benefit me as interest rates would go uk and property prices slump

However of course the budget deficit would accelerate and as with every labour government even the Blair government he’d try and make an assault on the pension funds as they always do

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Sep 7, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Come on - if anyone is likely to vote with a more long term thinking it's students. Going to be around a long time and still have some of that ideology before the real world beats it out of them. Elderly vote for short-term gain because they know they won't be around forever. Working age people vote for largely short term benefits because they've got financial pressures and families to take of that take precedence over more ideological long term wishes. The rich and business people will take short term tax cuts etc because they always want more.

Of course students will be tempted to vote for stuff that will benefit them right now, but so is everyone. Offer child tax credit or free childcare to parents they'll vote for it. Offer to increase the pension/fuel allowance/TV lience and old people will vote for it. Offer more free care to those caring for elderly relatives and they'll vote for it. Offer lower tax rates to the rich or less regulation of their dealings and the rich will vote for that.

it's well known one of the biggest problems with business is it goes for short term gains over long term planning. People have spent decades trying to work out a way to incorporate longer term and intangible costs/benefits into business planning with little success - even now the vast majority of business decisions are made on bottom line figures and shareholder value.

Elderly citizens have seen it all and have a good idea of where it all went wrong. They don't vote short term for personal gain because many of them have more cash in the bank and don't need short term thinking. Students know fuck all. When the real world beats it out of them its called growing up.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

Grendel said:
Students will vote for short term gain - it seems you have lost the debate and resorting to senseless insults

Funny isn't it that those who went to university for nothing and in fact got paid for it get on their high horse when those who want to go now are told all their degrees are 'Mickey Mouse', they need to pay £9k a year for tuition and over half that on living costs. Plus if the Tories stay in long enough the debt might get sold to a third party who can jack up the interest. Of course it's not like pensioners, rich folk, CEOs etc vote Tory for short term gain

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Sep 7, 2019

martcov said:
Joke being that the EU is against some forms of state intervention to ensure a level playing field for companies. But G doesn’t like the evil EU.

Have you been off on a European tour chasing teenage girls ?

Grendel · Sep 7, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Funny isn't it that those who went to university for nothing and in fact got paid for it get on their high horse when those who want to go now are told all their degrees are 'Mickey Mouse', they need to pay £9k a year for tuition and over half that on living costs. Plus if the Tories stay in long enough the debt might get sold to a third party who can jack up the interest. Of course it's not like pensioners, rich folk, CEOs etc vote Tory for short term gain

To clarify can you confirm they have to sign a cheque for £9,000 to go to university? Every year? Please confirm

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

Grendel said:
The 2008 recession was a global recession. Under corbynomics our situation would have been dire

Personally a Corbyn government would benefit me as interest rates would go uk and property prices slump

However of course the budget deficit would accelerate and as with every labour government even the Blair government he’d try and make an assault on the pension funds as they always do

The global recession began with the sub prime mortgage crisis in the USA. Rampant deregulation and the final cutting away of Glass-Steagall legislation from the FDR era which allowed the sector to run wild. Couple that with enormous Bush era tax cuts and the rest was inevitable. Over here Blair carried on with Thatcher's prioritisation of financial services ahead of industry and so similar happened to a lesser extent.

In a proper social democracy with a fair balance of regulation and independence it wouldn't have happened. Trickle down economics doesn't work and it has resulted in disastrous failure each time it is allowed to go unrestricted. But what really makes it frustrating is that you're too pig headed to admit historical truth

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

Grendel said:
To clarify can you confirm they have to sign a cheque for £9,000 to go to university? Every year? Please confirm

When I did my PGCE I had to stump up £9k or provide evidence of funding from the SLC. For my undergrad accommodation was around £5k a year which took up the bulk of the maintenance loans I was entitled to. On the PGCE, I was paying in order to provide a public service. How much did you have to pay to go to university? How much of your pay cheque is taken away per month to pay it off?

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Elderly citizens have seen it all and have a good idea of where it all went wrong. They don't vote short term for personal gain because many of them have more cash in the bank and don't need short term thinking. Students know fuck all. When the real world beats it out of them its called growing up.

Yes well the baby boomers did get a pretty sweet deal

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Sep 7, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
When I did my PGCE I had to stump up £9k or provide evidence of funding from the SLC. For my undergrad accommodation was around £5k a year which took up the bulk of the maintenance loans I was entitled to. On the PGCE, I was paying in order to provide a public service. How much did you have to pay to go to university? How much of your pay cheque is taken away per month to pay it off?

And now you have all that pointless planning , differentiation 6 ways and dreadful staff meetings where everyone sucks up to the head.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
And now you have all that pointless planning , differentiation 6 ways and dreadful staff meetings where everyone sucks up to the head.

Well at least the £100 a month taken out of my pay packet to repay student loan debt is more than I spend on classroom materials

Grendel · Sep 7, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
When I did my PGCE I had to stump up £9k or provide evidence of funding from the SLC. For my undergrad accommodation was around £5k a year which took up the bulk of the maintenance loans I was entitled to. On the PGCE, I was paying in order to provide a public service. How much did you have to pay to go to university? How much of your pay cheque is taken away per month to pay it off?

My 3 kids have been or are going through and have hardly laid a penny and on latest projections over 40% will not.

When I went only a small element of society did and I had 24 hours of lectures a weeks - now even on Russell Group courses there in reality is 5 hours a week contact time.

University education has been diluted and it’s a Blairite con to let masses go who are not even able to construct a sentence. Most graduates I employed at work have such low levels of comprehension I’ve had to tell them how to construct even basic e mails. One had a first

Fine if university is free but then make it actually something to strive for but just wander in for 5 hours a week. As of course it’s not free is it - someone whose actually grafting is having to pay for it

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

Grendel said:
My 3 kids have been or are going through and have hardly laid a penny and on latest projections over 40% will not.

When I went only a small element of society did and I had 24 hours of lectures a weeks - now even on Russell Group courses there in reality is 5 hours a week contact time.

University education has been diluted and it’s a Blairite con to let masses go who are not even able to construct a sentence. Most graduates I employed at work have such low levels of comprehension I’ve had to tell them how to construct even basic e mails. One had a first

Fine if university is free but then make it actually something to strive for but just wander in for 5 hours a week. As of course it’s not free is it - someone whose actually grafting is having to pay for it

What a gross generalisation. My degree was 35 hours a week-half of it spent in a lab and half in a lecture theatre sandwiching a year in the industry. When I graduated there were few jobs in physical sciences going so one had to stay in academia or go into a job where the degree was pointless. It's the sneering arrogance of those who never had to pay, who found it much easier to get a job/buy a house/start a family but don't understand why those who have been denied that are unhappy with it. Not every course is a joke and not every student is a lazy waste of space.

Honestly your footballing opinions are sometimes worth it but outside of that you come across as a pompous entitled prick

Grendel · Sep 7, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Honestly your footballing opinions are sometimes worth it but outside of that you come across as a pompous entitled prick

Actually that’s exactly how you come across. Well I’d also insert entitled before pompous.

When I left university I took a job which paid nothing. Yes nothing. Unemployment was rife so decided experience and some form of work would be of benefit so I latched onto some scheme at Warwick university

At JLR I took a job in department where I was the only graduate and miles below by education levels. I took a property at 26 and paid 16% interest rate so my mortgage alone on a £12,000 salary was £400
A month. My car was a Lada and I never went out. Oh and I did another job for a year at night

Unlike you I was never entitled

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

Grendel said:
Unlike you I was never entitled

You don't know me and nor do you really know the generation you belittle for wanting similar opportunities to their elders. At least we'll be in charge of the pensions in a decade or two

shmmeee · Sep 7, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Elderly citizens have seen it all and have a good idea of where it all went wrong. They don't vote short term for personal gain because many of them have more cash in the bank and don't need short term thinking. Students know fuck all. When the real world beats it out of them its called growing up.

You say that, but all the evidence points to the contrary.

Grendel · Sep 7, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
You don't know me and nor do you really know the generation you belittle for wanting similar opportunities to their elders. At least we'll be in charge of the pensions in a decade or two

I know your generation - would you be happy with a 16% mortgage rate? The urged thing I did is put a massive amount into my pension - you’d be moaning about hard times if you had to downgrade your phone or cancel Netflix

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 7, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Elderly citizens have seen it all and have a good idea of where it all went wrong. They don't vote short term for personal gain because many of them have more cash in the bank and don't need short term thinking. Students know fuck all. When the real world beats it out of them its called growing up.

If they've seen it all and have a good idea what went wrong why would they vote for the same things that have historically shown to precede financial downturns and recessions?

Fact is most vote for those that offer the most in terms of pensions increases and protecting their own finances. As they're a growing proportion of the population and a group most likely to vote it's why parties pander to them. Last election my elderly neighbours were talking about whether the free TV licence was going to be taken away or their houses used to pay for their care. Bit on Brexit (mainly to spout the usual nonsense about taking jobs/living off benefits and being given all the housing and healthcare (even though one of them had had three operations in the last six months). How many mentioned climate change? Or education? Absolutely none.

It is just 'growing up', or also giving up? It's a realisation that things are shit and those that make it shit have all the power and influence to continue making it shit because it's in their interest to do so. You want to change things for the better but suddenly you've ended up with a family to provide and care for and/or parents getting older and in poor health. There's plenty of young people who are in that situation. In fact to name a few people who've never really had to 'grow up' - Alexander, JRM, Corbyn, Cameron, Osbourne, Clegg.....

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

Grendel said:
I know your generation - would you be happy with a 16% mortgage rate? The urged thing I did is put a massive amount into my pension - you’d be moaning about hard times if you had to downgrade your phone or cancel Netflix

Probably not, though I'm guessing that the bank didn't mandate a minimum 10% deposit or that house prices were comparable to today even allowing for inflation. Or living costs for that matter. Oh, and the student loan repayments which for you were thankfully £0.

Climate change
Financial crashes
Pointless military interventions
Brexit

We really have so much to thank you for

Grendel · Sep 7, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Probably not, though I'm guessing that the bank didn't mandate a minimum 10% deposit or that house prices were comparable to today even allowing for inflation. Or living costs for that matter. Oh, and the student loan repayments which for you were thankfully £0.

Climate change
Financial crashes
Pointless military interventions
Brexit

We really have so much to thank you for

Do you think you may need some medical attention? You sound very angry and somewhat deranged

On a positive note I’m spending some of my pension on a 3 week vacation to New England shortly - shall I send you a postcard on recycled paper?

I’m thinking next year of a trip through the Canadian rockies and Vancouver island or a trip to Australia and New Zealand

Thoughts?

skybluetony176 · Sep 7, 2019

Grendel said:
Thoughts?

You’re a prick.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

Grendel said:
Do you think you may need some medical attention? You sound very angry and somewhat deranged

Pot kettle black-remember when you hounded another poster for 20 pages on a dedicated thread? Read back through what you've written about other posters, Corbyn, Merkel, May, or in fact anyone who disagrees with you. You obfuscate when proven wrong and I haven't once seen you hold your hands up and admit a mistake.

Still, it was sweet of you to admire me on the Wasps forum

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2019

Grendel said:
I’m thinking next year of a trip through the Canadian rockies and Vancouver island or a trip to Australia and New Zealand

Thoughts?

I thought these were socialist nightmares?

Ian1779 · Sep 7, 2019

Grendel said:
Do you think you may need some medical attention? You sound very angry and somewhat deranged

On a positive note I’m spending some of my pension on a 3 week vacation to New England shortly - shall I send you a postcard on recycled paper?

I’m thinking next year of a trip through the Canadian rockies and Vancouver island or a trip to Australia and New Zealand

Thoughts?

You must be pissed if you can’t see the irony in you calling someone else angry and deranged.

Otis · Sep 7, 2019

Another one bites the dust.

BBC News - Amber Rudd quits cabinet and Conservative party

Amber Rudd quits cabinet and Conservative party

skybluetony176 · Sep 7, 2019

Otis said:
Another one bites the dust.

BBC News - Amber Rudd quits cabinet and Conservative party

Amber Rudd quits cabinet and Conservative party

Fair play to her.

Just another indicator that the leave campaign was a Trojan horse for a no deal brexit so the disaster capitalist backers could capitalise on the impending disaster.

Grendel · Sep 7, 2019

Ian1779 said:
You must be pissed if you can’t see the irony in you calling someone else angry and deranged.

I’m expressing an irony

It’s the first holiday I’ve had abroad through a flight in my life as I can now afford it.

I suspect all the angry responders have vacation wise causes far more damage to the carbon footprint and profligated far more on holidays than me.

It’s spitting snarling socialism with a sharp drop of hypocrisy

Isn’t it?

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Sep 7, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
If they've seen it all and have a good idea what went wrong why would they vote for the same things that have historically shown to precede financial downturns and recessions?

Fact is most vote for those that offer the most in terms of pensions increases and protecting their own finances. As they're a growing proportion of the population and a group most likely to vote it's why parties pander to them. Last election my elderly neighbours were talking about whether the free TV licence was going to be taken away or their houses used to pay for their care. Bit on Brexit (mainly to spout the usual nonsense about taking jobs/living off benefits and being given all the housing and healthcare (even though one of them had had three operations in the last six months). How many mentioned climate change? Or education? Absolutely none.

It is just 'growing up', or also giving up? It's a realisation that things are shit and those that make it shit have all the power and influence to continue making it shit because it's in their interest to do so. You want to change things for the better but suddenly you've ended up with a family to provide and care for and/or parents getting older and in poor health. There's plenty of young people who are in that situation. In fact to name a few people who've never really had to 'grow up' - Alexander, JRM, Corbyn, Cameron, Osbourne, Clegg.....

Clearly you know far more about everything than those 30 years and more your senior.

CCFCSteve · Sep 8, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Fair play to her.

Just another indicator that the leave campaign was a Trojan horse for a no deal brexit so the disaster capitalist backers could capitalise on the impending disaster.

If it’s true that there is no intention of pursuing a deal with the EU I will be as disgusted as the next man/woman.

I would take what Rudd says or does with a pinch of salt though (as with most MPs). I was shocked she even agreed to take a post in Johnsons cabinet (as I was with her return to Mays cabinet). Also check her brother.

dutchman · Sep 8, 2019

CCFCSteve said:
If it’s true that there is no intention of pursuing a deal with the EU I will be as disgusted as the next man/woman.

I would take what Rudd says or does with a pinch of salt though (as with most MPs). I was shocked she even agreed to take a post in Johnsons cabinet (as I was with her return to Mays cabinet).

It was always a poisoned chalice, just look at what happened to previous occupants of the same post:
Stephen Crabb

19 March 2016 14 July 2016

Damian Green

14 July 2016 11 June 2017

David Gauke

11 June 2017 8 January 2018

Esther McVey

8 January 2018 15 November 2018

None lasted more than a year and many were facing questions about apparent discrepencies in testimony they gave to a parliamentary committee shortly before they resigned.

skybluetony176 · Sep 8, 2019

shmmeee said:
Reheated May deal incoming.

Can he survive the VoNC that’ll come after or has he burned his bridges?

Looks like Mays pre backstop deal could be the plan. If he is actually looking for a deal that is.

BREXIT LIVE: How Boris Johnson can FINALLY solve backstop - but Foster will hate it!

Sick Boy · Sep 8, 2019

Grendel said:
Actually that’s exactly how you come across. Well I’d also insert entitled before pompous.

When I left university I took a job which paid nothing. Yes nothing. Unemployment was rife so decided experience and some form of work would be of benefit so I latched onto some scheme at Warwick university

At JLR I took a job in department where I was the only graduate and miles below by education levels. I took a property at 26 and paid 16% interest rate so my mortgage alone on a £12,000 salary was £400
A month. My car was a Lada and I never went out. Oh and I did another job for a year at night

Unlike you I was never entitled

Yet more generalisations...my first job in my industry was unpaid and I found it using my own initiative as I decided I needed to get some experience.

I was also working 2 other jobs at the time and literally working on average 14 hours a day 7 days a week.

Granted this was back in 2009 when there were way less jobs about due to the recession but there are still plenty of people doing what you did.

skybluetony176 · Sep 8, 2019

Sick Boy said:
Yet more generalisations...my first job in my industry was unpaid and I found it using my own initiative as I decided I needed to get some experience.

I was also working 2 other jobs at the time and literally working on average 14 hours a day 7 days a week.

Granted this was back in 2009 when there were way less jobs about due to the recession but there are still plenty of people doing what you did.

One of my colleagues daughters has just been doing it for an entire year after leaving university. It’s almost broke him as it was in London and although she was doing paid work in the evenings/weekends she still couldn’t afford the cost of living so it was bank of mum and dad to make up the difference. It did lead to a very good job but to suggest that the practice doesn’t exist still is as you say nonsense.

djr8369 · Sep 8, 2019

Grendel said:
I know your generation - would you be happy with a 16% mortgage rate? The urged thing I did is put a massive amount into my pension - you’d be moaning about hard times if you had to downgrade your phone or cancel Netflix

Good use of selective metrics there to try and wage generational warfare. Of course, you’ll be aware that some of the reasons interests rates are so much lower now is because of the crippling debt levels, the fact house prices have rocketed relative to the average rage and that they needed to be lowered in order to get the economy going again after deregulated capitalism brought it to its knees.

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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (116 Viewers)

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