The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Yet more generalisations...my first job in my industry was unpaid and I found it using my own initiative as I decided I needed to get some experience.

I was also working 2 other jobs at the time and literally working on average 14 hours a day 7 days a week.

Granted this was back in 2009 when there were way less jobs about due to the recession but there are still plenty of people doing what you did.

Says the person who constantly uses personal anecdotes

 

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[Grendel]

Good use of selective metrics there to try and wage generational warfare. Of course, you’ll be aware that some of the reasons interests rates are so much lower now is because of the crippling debt levels, the fact house prices have rocketed relative to the average rage and that they needed to be lowered in order to get the economy going again after deregulated capitalism brought it to its knees.


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Didn’t they rise rapidly at one point due to the ERM?

 

[Grendel]

One of my colleagues daughters has just been doing it for an entire year after leaving university. It’s almost broke him as it was in London and although she was doing paid work in the evenings/weekends she still couldn’t afford the cost of living so it was bank of mum and dad to make up the difference. It did lead to a very good job but to suggest that the practice doesn’t exist still is as you say nonsense.

Good that’s life

I’m just pointing out realities to Brighton who thinks the world owes him a living and everything has to be handed to him on a silver platter

 

[Sick Boy]

Says the person who constantly uses personal anecdotes

Which you have just done for your crass generalisations.

The truth to me seems that you now live in an isolated wealthy bubble and have been out of touch for quite a while

 

[Grendel]

Which you have just done for your crass generalisations.

The truth to me seems that you now live in an isolated wealthy bubble and have been out of touch for quite a while

Not at all - one of my children who earns a very modest wage has now managed to save nearly 10% for a deposit on a property and will have achieved that by next year - it’s not impossible and the only thing that has changed is deposits are now much higher than decades ago and interest rates are much lower so monthly payments compensate for that

Areas such as London May be an issue but that’s the same the world over

 

[Grendel]

Will Mr Johnson carry out his threat not to have appointed a European Commissioner so we cannot ask for an extension?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Good that’s life

I’m just pointing out realities to Brighton who thinks the world owes him a living and everything has to be handed to him on a silver platter

According to empirical studies on the matter the current generation will/does have it harder to create a living than the one before. You characterise degrees now as Mickey Mouse with 5 hours contact time a week and while some might be, my course hours were close to those of a working week notwithstanding the year spent in industry as part of it.

My profession has not seen a real terms pay rise in a decade. Class sizes increase but the resources available decrease and most times I buy my own. Coventry’s schools stand to actually lose money from their budgets if the ‘fair funding formula’ is implemented. Do I think I’m ‘owed’ a living no but a fair crack of the whip would be nice.

 

[Grendel]

According to empirical studies on the matter the current generation will/does have it harder to create a living than the one before. You characterise degrees now as Mickey Mouse with 5 hours contact time a week and while some might be, my course hours were close to those of a working week notwithstanding the year spent in industry as part of it.

My profession has not seen a real terms pay rise in a decade. Class sizes increase but the resources available decrease and most times I buy my own. Coventry’s schools stand to actually lose money from their budgets if the ‘fair funding formula’ is implemented. Do I think I’m ‘owed’ a living no but a fair crack of the whip would be nice.

Certainly in the last 5 years I had pay rises of less than the increase in living costs

Take your frustration out on the Blair creature for the absurd university expansion and education dumb down

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Certainly in the last 5 years I had pay rises of less than the increase in living costs

Take your frustration out on the Blair creature for the absurd university expansion and education dumb down

He deserves criticism for Iraq and exacerbating the financial services sector’s abuse of power. But he isn’t the one who kept the public sector pay freeze in place for a decade. You keep talking of the ‘dumbing down’ in education but that doesn’t really account for the scarcity of jobs in scientific industry around that time or recognise that you compete for positions with those of similar qualifications. The truth is that Britain has seen pharmaceutical/petrochemical companies shift their operations elsewhere.

Labour haven’t been in since 2010. At some point the Tories must take some of the blame for the rise in those depending on charity or welfare, for the rise in people my age who rent or live with parents instead of owning a home or for the increasing reliance on zero hour contracts and part time work.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Fair play to her.

Just another indicator that the leave campaign was a Trojan horse for a no deal brexit so the disaster capitalist backers could capitalise on the impending disaster.

Great news, hideous woman, good riddance.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Clearly you know far more about everything than those 30 years and more your senior.

Of course not. It's dependent on an individual and their experiences and knowledge. I will know more about some things than them, they'll know more about other things. Similarly there will be people younger than me that know more about some stuff and less about others. What those things are will differ depending on the individual.

Or are you suggesting age automatically gives you a better understanding of everything? In which case surely the best thing to do is just have the PM as the oldest person in the country and parliament as the next 649. Save all this time and money on having elections and we'd automatically have the most experienced and knowledgeable parliament available.

And Corbyn is older than Johnson, so guess he must know more about what gone wrong in the past

 

[skybluetony176]

Great news, hideous woman, good riddance.

That’s true. Boris does seem to surround himself with hideous people. Obviously someone who is comfortable in this environment.

 

[Grendel]

Or are you suggesting age automatically gives you a better understanding of everything? In which case surely the best thing to do is just have the PM as the oldest person in the country and parliament as the next 649. Save all this time and money on having elections and we'd automatically have the most experienced and knowledgeable parliament available

Ironic given that the idiotic remainers were pretty much trying to apply the logic to get s dribbling europhile to lead some stupid emergency government

I suspect they wouldn’t have applied the logic of the right honourable dribbler of Brussels had left and they had to turn to the next longest serving member

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Ironic given that the idiotic remainers were pretty much trying to apply the logic to get s dribbling europhile to lead some stupid emergency government

I suspect they wouldn’t have applied the logic of the right honourable dribbler of Brussels had left and they had to turn to the next longest serving member

Could you just use names rather than keep up the ‘dribbling’ act?

 

[Sick Boy]

Could you just use names rather than keep up the ‘dribbling’ act?

I'd rather be a dribbler than a frothing quitter.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Could you just use names rather than keep up the ‘dribbling’ act?

If we could get some names we could scout them for the ACM position. - could prove useful.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I'd rather be a dribbler than a frothing quitter.

Who’s the frothing quitter though sick boy ?

If you mean Johnson, whatever people want to call him (and I don’t disagree with some of the stuff), at least he is trying every which way to finalise the Brexit situation once and for all.

I can’t say I agree with all of his methods but as someone else said on an earlier post at least he’s trying to finalise matters

Ps after thornberrys comments on QT there is no way Corbyn can be caretaker PM for any discussions with the EU

 

[Sick Boy]

Who’s the frothing quitter though sick boy ?

If you mean Johnson, whatever people want to call him (and I don’t disagree with some of the stuff), at least he is trying every which way to finalise the Brexit situation once and for all.

I can’t say I agree with all of his methods but as someone else said on an earlier post at least he’s trying to finalise matters

Ps after thornberrys comments on QT there is no way Corbyn can be caretaker PM for any discussions with the EU

It was a tongue in cheek remark to Grendel always describing anyone against Brexit as ‘dribbling’.

I see no way out of the current mess and imagine that in 300 years it will be going on and Brexit will mean Brexit but secretly no one will actually know what it is and the country would be no further along.

 

[Ian1779]

Ps after thornberrys comments on QT there is no way Corbyn can be caretaker PM for any discussions with the EU

Let’s actually look at that in a bit more detail.

Corbyn has clearly said that he will give the final decision back to the people, and provide credible leave vs remain options.

He and his party are duty bound to negotiate a deal that can be put forward for people to vote on. It would I imagine be something like the SM/CU arrangement they talked about before.

I appreciate that it may then seem strange to campaign for remain, but they have a responsibility to try and get some kind of deal - which would make them more productive than Boris and his crack team of negotiators.

 

[Grendel]

Let’s actually look at that in a bit more detail.

Corbyn has clearly said that he will give the final decision back to the people, and provide credible leave vs remain options.

He and his party are duty bound to negotiate a deal that can be put forward for people to vote on. It would I imagine be something like the SM/CU arrangement they talked about before.

I appreciate that it may then seem strange to campaign for remain, but they have a responsibility to try and get some kind of deal - which would make them more productive than Boris and his crack team of negotiators.

Two senior members have his cabinet last week both confirmed whatever the deal is they’d urge the country to vote against it

Brilliant strategy. What do you think the Eu will offer better than they already have when Corbyn turns up drops his trousers and says we want to stay?

It’s actually so bad it’s embarrassing

 

[Ian1779]

Two senior members have his cabinet last week both confirmed whatever the deal is they’d urge the country to vote against it

Brilliant strategy. What do you think the Eu will offer better than they already have when Corbyn turns up drops his trousers and says we want to stay?

It’s actually so bad it’s embarrassing

The offer from the EU will of course be different because Labour wouldn’t have May’s red lines.

It’s not about ‘dropping his trousers’ it’s about sensible negotiation.

It won’t matter anyway to you - unless you get your no-deal you’ll be frothing at the mouth, because you’ll never accept any version of Brexit that isn’t that.

It’s actually so bad it’s embarrassing.... mostly for you.

 

[skybluetony176]

Two senior members have his cabinet last week both confirmed whatever the deal is they’d urge the country to vote against it

Brilliant strategy. What do you think the Eu will offer better than they already have when Corbyn turns up drops his trousers and says we want to stay?

It’s actually so bad it’s embarrassing

So you want to deny MP’s the right to an opinion in a national referendum?

 

[Ian1779]

So you want to deny MP’s a right to an opinion in a national referendum?

1st rule of communism.....?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

You say that, but all the evidence points to the contrary.

Where's that then ?

 

[skybluetony176]

1st rule of communism.....?

I wonder if Corbyn gets a deal and inevitably the Trojan horse parties, sorry ERG and Brexit parties inevitably campaign against it in the referendum does that mean we’ll have to label the ERG and Brexit parties dribbling europhiles for campaigning to keep us in the EU?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s actually so bad it’s embarrassing

We agree on something then. You're on about BoJo right?

 

[Grendel]

So you want to deny MP’s the right to an opinion in a national referendum?

This is not a normal referendum though it’s but yes and no but it’s a leave remain referendum on a deal the government even before its seen options in the table will vote down

Everyone thinks it’s hilarious

 

[Grendel]

We agree on something then. You're on about BoJo right?

No Johnson wants to end the issue one way or the other. There is an opportunity to revoke article 50 but Mr Corbyn as ever dithers and refuses to take this to the electorate

 

[Grendel]

I wonder if Corbyn gets a deal and inevitably the Trojan horse parties, sorry ERG and Brexit parties inevitably campaign against it in the referendum does that mean we’ll have to label the ERG and Brexit parties dribbling europhiles for campaigning to keep us in the EU?

Oh dear leave the irony to me. Like everything else you are pretty poor on any issue or discussion

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No Johnson wants to end the issue one way or the other. There is an opportunity to revoke article 50 but Mr Corbyn as ever dithers and refuses to take this to the electorate

The way to take it to the electorate is with a 2nd referendum rather than a sneaky attempt at a 2nd referendum by proxy. Leave without an agreement immediately or revoke Article 50 immediately. What is there to be concerned about? If enough people still want Brexit it would be voted through-if opinion has changed, this mistake can be forgotten about.

 

[oakey]

Let's call the whole thing off
:banghead:

 

[Ian1779]

Oh dear leave the irony to me. Like everything else you are pretty poor on any issue or discussion

Please... your like an walking/talking version of ‘The Thick of It’

And I don’t mean Malcolm Tucker.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Two senior members have his cabinet last week both confirmed whatever the deal is they’d urge the country to vote against it

Brilliant strategy. What do you think the Eu will offer better than they already have when Corbyn turns up drops his trousers and says we want to stay?

It’s actually so bad it’s embarrassing

It's actually embarrassing that after over 3 years people are still talking about this like its a commercial negotiation where the other party has a range of positions it might bargain.

This simplism is why we're marching towards fascism.

 

[dutchman]

I'd have thought it was far more embarrasing that more than three years after voting to leave the EU Britain is still a fully paid up member of it?

 

[shmmeee]

I'd have thought it was far more embarrasing that more than three years after voting to leave the EU Britain is still a fully paid up member of it?

Anyone who thinks extracting yourself from a 40 year political union should be over quickly is delusional.

We won’t be done with this in our lifetimes.