The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (288 Viewers)

[Ring Of Steel]

Are people really getting angry because ROS isn’t Mart?

You know what the Brexiteers are like, in a state of perpetual anger at something

 

---

[Ring Of Steel]

No, I think.people are laughing at him for whoever he is. I personally think the style is very Terry Christianesque but I couldn't give toss who he is really. He's the big 'I am" on here right now and it's quite funny referring to racists, racists and racists.

lol, you’re bloody well passed obsessed, aren’t you it ain’t my issue that you’ve got deeply questionable personal beliefs, pal

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Hey Alan, check this out, get someone to read it out for you. This guy knows what he is talking about, calling out a few home truths at the London film awards ceremony. No disgusting rants about slashing boats up in the channel, just proper facts.

Joaquin Phoenix praised for Baftas racism speech

 

[Deleted member 4439]

It's beyond frustrating that the vocal number who wanted to remain part of the EU seem always to reduce the discussion to immigration - and worse, race (when they actually mean culture) - to the point where those that wanted to leave can no longer bother to raise debate over the number of strong reasons for not being part of the EU (whilst acknowledging the risks and challenges).

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

It's beyond frustrating that the vocal number who wanted to remain part of the EU seem always to reduce the discussion to immigration - and worse, race (when they actually mean culture) - to the point where those that wanted to leave can no longer bother to raise debate over the number of strong reasons for not being part of the EU (whilst acknowledging the risks and challenges).

Very true.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

You know what the Brexiteers are like, in a state of perpetual anger at something

Brexiteers are all delighted at the situation. You still looking for the "gas the Jews" quote you squealed to everyone ? The one you made up ?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Hey Alan, check this out, get someone to read it out for you. This guy knows what he is talking about, calling out a few home truths at the London film awards ceremony. No disgusting rants about slashing boats up in the channel, just proper facts.

Joaquin Phoenix praised for Baftas racism speech

Hey Ring,
thanks but I'm not interested in film awards.
You're a bit obsessed with race. Are you a racist ?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Hey Ring,
thanks but I'm not interested in film awards.
You're a bit obsessed with race. Are you a racist ?

Hey, evening Alan. How’s the blood pressure? I’ll just pop over every now and again to check on your hyperventilation

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Hey, evening Alan. How’s the blood pressure? I’ll just pop over every now and again to check on your hyperventilation

by the way who am I tonight- Mart, Terry or Rob?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's beyond frustrating that the vocal number who wanted to remain part of the EU seem always to reduce the discussion to immigration - and worse, race (when they actually mean culture) - to the point where those that wanted to leave can no longer bother to raise debate over the number of strong reasons for not being part of the EU (whilst acknowledging the risks and challenges).

Give me 3 of those strong reasons. Can’t use ‘take back control’ though

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Give me 3 of those strong reasons. Can’t use ‘take back control’ though

There are none.

What we're going to see now is a gradual tactical backing away from any & all promises & plans made by the brexiteers, which is exactly what they wanted in the first place. We already see it- Boris going off on one saying he won't be 'pushed around' by the EU today. The gameplan is to have the brexit they want, not the brexit you voted for, which will make a few people rich beyond rich, and mark my words, it will all be blamed on "the intransigence of our European friends" so that your average jingoistic guy on the street sees the EU as the enemy in all this.

And also, not many brexit voters will care, because they "just want it done"- some will- but mostly people won't care as long as brexit happens, the majority couldn't care less about deals as they "got their country back", whatever the hell that means.

Brexit voters- you got played & you're going to continue to be played all the way to crash out day, which is a nailed on inevitability.

 

[Grendel]

Give me 3 of those strong reasons. Can’t use ‘take back control’ though

1. avoidance of further fiscal integration
2 no chance of political integration through further veto removal (which can be done by shifting the way it’s voted through an act or treaty)
3 no economic risk if euro collapses and this would have an impact on our budgets
4 removal of the ECJ
5 no contributions to EU projects which have zero benefit to the Uk

 

[CCFCSteve]

There are none.

What we're going to see now is a gradual tactical backing away from any & all promises & plans made by the brexiteers, which is exactly what they wanted in the first place. We already see it- Boris going off on one saying he won't be 'pushed around' by the EU today. The gameplan is to have the brexit they want, not the brexit you voted for, which will make a few people rich beyond rich, and mark my words, it will all be blamed on "the intransigence of our European friends" so that your average jingoistic guy on the street sees the EU as the enemy in all this.

And also, not many brexit voters will care, because they "just want it done"- some will- but mostly people won't care as long as brexit happens, the majority couldn't care less about deals as they "got their country back", whatever the hell that means.

Brexit voters- you got played & you're going to continue to be played all the way to crash out day, which is a nailed on inevitability.

You can’t say there are none ROS. You may disagree with people’s views but many had valid/strong reasons for voting leave. I think they were glossed over when I wrote these previously, however, these were genuine reasons why people voted that way. Only time will tell whether the referendum result addresses many/any of these, however, I suppose it’s kind of irrelevant now as we are where we are and it’s up to us as a country to make the most of it, rather than dwelling on the arguments of the past. Here’s a few anyway (apologies it I’m repeating some of Grendels):

The belief that uncontrolled net migration was having an immediate negative impact on public services and infrastructure ie housing a public services can’t keep up with the amount of those arriving. That’s not to say that over time migration can’t have a positive financial impact on the economy (and in turn public services etc). Also that this was helping to suppress wages for unskilled/low skilled workers

The belief that the current immigration system was unfair...why have a points based systems for skilled workers and/or workers that may add more value to the country from non EU nations (Africa, Asia, Australia, US etc) when pretty much anyone from the EU could come over.

No longer having to pay the net £10bn - £12bn annual contributions.

The belief that the EU were pushing towards an ever closer political union and whether we have opt outs or not, we were and would’ve continued to be on the periphery of the EU. Many also believing we have never had a vote to agree to be apart of this or not.

The belief that being in the EU had had a negative affect on industries their local area relied upon ie fishing.

In addition we all continue hear about the misinformed Leave voters, however, what about those on the remain side. Recently I’ve heard people complaining that leaving will impact the ability to travel to Europe...no it won’t, VISA free travel for up to 3 months is likely to remain (guessing sufficient for probably 95% of the country), requests can be made for longer. The ability to work in Europe - I appreciated it won’t be as easy as it was as more forms will need to be filled in but how many people still manage to do this to work in Australia, NZ and America ? In actual fact I’d imagine that the decision to leave could well improve the ability for the young to work in those non EU countries, hopefully partially mitigating the loss of FOM.

The main reason people voted to Remain (by some way) was the economy, many of whom would have been persuaded by the various negative projections (some extreme and unfounded). If these prove to be unfounded then it would be interesting to see whether the level of EU support remains at current levels. The fact is in the U.K, and across a lot of Europe a significant percentage of the population haven’t ever wanted/ dont want that close political union. From what I’ve seen, the EU has never tried to encourage a higher level of support by addressing many of these concerns.

As I said above, we are where we are, there is little benefit in dredging up the arguments of the past, I personally think we should all be doing our best to make the most of where we now find ourselves.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

You can’t say there are none ROS. You may disagree with people’s views but many had valid/strong reasons for voting leave. I think they were glossed over when I wrote these previously, however, these were genuine reasons why people voted that way. Only time will tell whether the referendum result addresses many/any of these, however, I suppose it’s kind of irrelevant now as we are where we are and it’s up to us as a country to make the most of it, rather than dwelling on the arguments of the past. Here’s a few anyway (apologies it I’m repeating some of Grendels):

The belief that uncontrolled net migration was having an immediate negative impact on public services and infrastructure ie housing a public services can’t keep up with the amount of those arriving. That’s not to say that over time migration can’t have a positive financial impact on the economy (and in turn public services etc). Also that this was helping to suppress wages for unskilled/low skilled workers

The belief that the current immigration system was unfair...why have a points based systems for skilled workers and/or workers that may add more value to the country from non EU nations (Africa, Asia, Australia, US etc) when pretty much anyone from the EU could come over.

No longer having to pay the net £10bn - £12bn annual contributions.

The belief that the EU were pushing towards an ever closer political union and whether we have opt outs or not, we were and would’ve continued to be on the periphery of the EU. Many also believing we have never had a vote to agree to be apart of this or not.

The belief that being in the EU had had a negative affect on industries their local area relied upon ie fishing.

In addition we all continue hear about the misinformed Leave voters, however, what about those on the remain side. Recently I’ve heard people complaining that leaving will impact the ability to travel to Europe...no it won’t, VISA free travel for up to 3 months is likely to remain (guessing sufficient for probably 95% of the country), requests can be made for longer. The ability to work in Europe - I appreciated it won’t be as easy as it was as more forms will need to be filled in but how many people still manage to do this to work in Australia, NZ and America ? In actual fact I’d imagine that the decision to leave could well improve the ability for the young to work in those non EU countries, hopefully partially mitigating the loss of FOM.

The main reason people voted to Remain (by some way) was the economy, many of whom would have been persuaded by the various negative projections (some extreme and unfounded). If these prove to be unfounded then it would be interesting to see whether the level of EU support remains at current levels. The fact is in the U.K, and across a lot of Europe a significant percentage of the population haven’t ever wanted/ dont want that close political union. From what I’ve seen, the EU has never tried to encourage a higher level of support by addressing many of these concerns.

As I said above, we are where we are, there is little benefit in dredging up the arguments of the past, I personally think we should all be doing our best to make the most of where we now find ourselves.

Well we will see won't we. The only 'facts' we have so far instead of conjecture are that a number of promises made have already turned out to be bullshit, and this is after only a couple of days. I'd get used to that, there will be plenty more to come.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Well we will see won't we. The only 'facts' we have so far instead of conjecture are that a number of promises made have already turned out to be bullshit, and this is after only a couple of days. I'd get used to that, there will be plenty more to come.

Hahahahaha. Hilarious . You'd know all about bullshit.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Well we will see won't we. The only 'facts' we have so far instead of conjecture are that a number of promises made have already turned out to be bullshit, and this is after only a couple of days. I'd get used to that, there will be plenty more to come.

If it was down to you, we'd still be paying into the EU's projects after we'd left.... even though they have fuck all benefits to us

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Ah here they are, tweedledum & tweedledee- right on cue.

Dom, who slunk away yesterday after being shown up, and the increasingly deranged Mr Dugdale who also went quiet, presumably as he was down on the coast with a telescope and catapult trying to spot immigrants coming in

You must let me know what the first tranche of NHS money was spent on, which exciting trade deals were struck, and a bit of research on what the "Australia deal" actually means wouldn't go amiss- here's a clue, the name is designed especially for people like you..

Steve made some decent points, Grendel can argue his case, the issue there is that it is massively unlikely that they are going to get the brexit they were sold & the one they voted for, which is not their fault. However I am yet to see any kind of coherent opinion originating from you two geniuses, just prattling on about, well I have no idea actually, its just babble. So on that note I will continue with my day and await your educated insight!

 

[clint van damme]

If it was down to you, we'd still be paying into the EU's projects after we'd left.... even though they have fuck all benefits to us

unless we leave with no deal we will be and we will be getting benefits from those projects we are contributing to and on-going UK projects will get continued funding. This is one of the main points of negotiation in the divorce bill.
How can we be nearly 4 years in and people not know this?

 

[shmmeee]

If it was down to you, we'd still be paying into the EU's projects after we'd left.... even though they have fuck all benefits to us

We are. That’s what King Boris agreed: Brexit: the financial settlement - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament

 

[Ring Of Steel]

We are. That’s what King Boris agreed: Brexit: the financial settlement - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament

Yes, exactly.

And thats the point, they have no idea what they voted for & they don't understand what they're going to get. Of course some people made informed decisions, and thats fine, but there can be little doubt that a whole lot more people had no clue what it was all about, were ignorant to the details and all they understood were the taglines about "taking back control" and "controlling our borders".

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You can’t say there are none ROS. You may disagree with people’s views but many had valid/strong reasons for voting leave. I think they were glossed over when I wrote these previously, however, these were genuine reasons why people voted that way. Only time will tell whether the referendum result addresses many/any of these, however, I suppose it’s kind of irrelevant now as we are where we are and it’s up to us as a country to make the most of it, rather than dwelling on the arguments of the past. Here’s a few anyway (apologies it I’m repeating some of Grendels):

The belief that uncontrolled net migration was having an immediate negative impact on public services and infrastructure ie housing a public services can’t keep up with the amount of those arriving. That’s not to say that over time migration can’t have a positive financial impact on the economy (and in turn public services etc). Also that this was helping to suppress wages for unskilled/low skilled workers

The belief that the current immigration system was unfair...why have a points based systems for skilled workers and/or workers that may add more value to the country from non EU nations (Africa, Asia, Australia, US etc) when pretty much anyone from the EU could come over.

No longer having to pay the net £10bn - £12bn annual contributions.

The belief that the EU were pushing towards an ever closer political union and whether we have opt outs or not, we were and would’ve continued to be on the periphery of the EU. Many also believing we have never had a vote to agree to be apart of this or not.

The belief that being in the EU had had a negative affect on industries their local area relied upon ie fishing.

In addition we all continue hear about the misinformed Leave voters, however, what about those on the remain side. Recently I’ve heard people complaining that leaving will impact the ability to travel to Europe...no it won’t, VISA free travel for up to 3 months is likely to remain (guessing sufficient for probably 95% of the country), requests can be made for longer. The ability to work in Europe - I appreciated it won’t be as easy as it was as more forms will need to be filled in but how many people still manage to do this to work in Australia, NZ and America ? In actual fact I’d imagine that the decision to leave could well improve the ability for the young to work in those non EU countries, hopefully partially mitigating the loss of FOM.

The main reason people voted to Remain (by some way) was the economy, many of whom would have been persuaded by the various negative projections (some extreme and unfounded). If these prove to be unfounded then it would be interesting to see whether the level of EU support remains at current levels. The fact is in the U.K, and across a lot of Europe a significant percentage of the population haven’t ever wanted/ dont want that close political union. From what I’ve seen, the EU has never tried to encourage a higher level of support by addressing many of these concerns.

As I said above, we are where we are, there is little benefit in dredging up the arguments of the past, I personally think we should all be doing our best to make the most of where we now find ourselves.

My old man voted Leave because he didn’t want to be in a European superstate. While he was exaggerating a bit I can accept further integration as a concern even if I have no issue with it myself. I do however find it a bit odd that you assume those of us who voted Remain did so because they were scared into it. We know that a hit is coming to the economy since all the rhetoric is about an unspecified future dividend.

For me I don’t see how flipping off Europe is important at a time when more cooperation is needed rather than less. I also can’t take immigration as a concern when most is non-EU and we could already send back EU migrants and EU migrants are net contributors. Cue ‘haha you lost’ but it was 52-48 and I don’t see why dissent or opposition has to be silenced.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

1. avoidance of further fiscal integration
2 no chance of political integration through further veto removal (which can be done by shifting the way it’s voted through an act or treaty)
3 no economic risk if euro collapses and this would have an impact on our budgets
4 removal of the ECJ
5 no contributions to EU projects which have zero benefit to the Uk

6 The inevitable break up of the UK wait what

 

[Ring Of Steel]

My old man voted Leave because he didn’t want to be in a European superstate. While he was exaggerating a bit I can accept further integration as a concern even if I have no issue with it myself. I do however find it a bit odd that you assume those of us who voted Remain did so because they were scared into it. We know that a hit is coming to the economy since all the rhetoric is about an unspecified future dividend.

For me I don’t see how flipping off Europe is important at a time when more cooperation is needed rather than less. I also can’t take immigration as a concern when most is non-EU and we could already send back EU migrants and EU migrants are net contributors. Cue ‘haha you lost’ but it was 52-48 and I don’t see why dissent or opposition has to be silenced.

This is a good point. One thing that is regularly thrown around by brexit-types is "democracy! you aren't respecting democracy!" whereas their version of democracy seems to be "shut up & suck it up, loser! Nobody has any right to challenge anything any more, so naa naa, leftie"

 

[shmmeee]

Not Brexit but never let it be said I don’t praise Boris where it’s due. I see they’re consulting on bringing the ICE car ban in five years earlier. I’d rather 2030 personally but progress is progress and it at least means we aren’t the worst in the developed world for such plans.

 

[CCFCSteve]

My old man voted Leave because he didn’t want to be in a European superstate. While he was exaggerating a bit I can accept further integration as a concern even if I have no issue with it myself. I do however find it a bit odd that you assume those of us who voted Remain did so because they were scared into it. We know that a hit is coming to the economy since all the rhetoric is about an unspecified future dividend.

For me I don’t see how flipping off Europe is important at a time when more cooperation is needed rather than less. I also can’t take immigration as a concern when most is non-EU and we could already send back EU migrants and EU migrants are net contributors. Cue ‘haha you lost’ but it was 52-48 and I don’t see why dissent or opposition has to be silenced.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear BSB. I wasn’t assuming, the economy was the No 1 reason why people voted remain. I was then just making the point that some (not all or a majority) of those would’ve been based on the negative projections (some excessive which are unlikely to come true)

Also there is no issue with challenging. I would certainly expect it if things do turn to shit (which they could do, who knows ! I personally don’t think things will turn out that bad). All I’m saying is that we are going over the same arguments from pre referendum/withdrawal agreement/brexit day when the decision has been made/enacted upon, so let’s try to make the best of it and at least see how things progress.

ps your mate Bill Mayer was quite complementary about old Bernie this week !

pps just saw your comments on migration. It’s hard to disagree with the sentiment but my comments are specific about net EU migration. For example I appreciate that they are net contributors, however, my point has always been about ‘control’ ie limit numbers (in general or skillset) if needed to allow infrastructure to catch up and/or free up space for Non EU migrates people with other/different skills etc. Non EU migration has increased but from memory it also includes higher numbers of students

 

[CCFCSteve]

Not Brexit but never let it be said I don’t praise Boris where it’s due. I see they’re consulting on bringing the ICE car ban in five years earlier. I’d rather 2030 personally but progress is progress and it at least means we aren’t the worst in the developed world for such plans.

Is it true that we are the first of the G7 to legislate becoming net carbon neutral by 2050 ? (Sure I heard it somewhere). Appreciate many will think that’s too long but again it’s a good step in the right direction and no doubt many large businesses will be pushing to do their bit to beat this target. Just saw an interesting Sky advert detailing their aims on the subject

 

[shmmeee]

Is it true that we are the first of the G7 to legislate becoming net carbon neutral by 2050 ? (Sure I heard it somewhere). Appreciate many will think that’s too long but again it’s a good step in the right direction and no doubt many large businesses will be pushing to do their bit to beat this target. Just saw an interesting Sky advert detailing their aims on the subject

Sadly most of the corporate stuff is just PR fluff like planting trees or whatever. The big ones are transport and energy generation which need government intervention IMO.

But yeah: Carbon neutrality - Wikipedia

The U.K. has generally lead the world on this (and should considering it kinda caused the problem with the industrial revolution), my worry with targets 30 years away is current governments fee they can leave it to future ones. I like these kind of short term targets that focus minds.

Best thing they could do is stop playing silly buggers with solar and on shore wind and electric car grants/loans. The coalition basically cut the industry off at the knees for ideological reasons. Hoping Brexit means we see it as something to be world leaders on because we have all the right components.

Also hoping Boris’ Dad and missus have a word in his ear and he doesn’t listen to the mentalists and lobbyists in cabinet.

 

[skybluetony176]

1. avoidance of further fiscal integration
2 no chance of political integration through further veto removal (which can be done by shifting the way it’s voted through an act or treaty)
3 no economic risk if euro collapses and this would have an impact on our budgets
4 removal of the ECJ
5 no contributions to EU projects which have zero benefit to the Uk

1. Project fear
2. Project fear
3. Bollocks. As the last recession showed us. If the Euro collapses the whole world will have to suck it up. Take the worldwide effects of American Toxic Mortgage issue of the last recession and times it by any number you like. You’re either too stupid to know that or you’re fishing for likes of people that you know are too stupid to understand it. I’ll give you the benefit of doubt and say the latter.
4. Can you explain the advantage of that vs the disadvantages.
5. Also no EU projects in the U.K. that other countries have contributed too. Areas of Wales were the biggest nett receivers in the EU per capita and as yet the government hasn’t committed to replacing this funding anywhere in the country where its benefits have been felt. You could argue we’re paying less out but you’re confusing cost with value. Which to be fair is very typical of you.

 

[Evo1883]

You know what the Brexiteers are like, in a state of perpetual anger at something

I'm a brexiteer and I'm not angry you FUCKING TWAT

 

[Evo1883]

This has to be pushing the longest off topic thread on any football forum ever

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I'm a brexiteer and I'm not angry you FUCKING TWAT

Oh yes you are, because he says you are !

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

This has to be pushing the longest off topic thread on any football forum ever

It dropped right off immediately before we officially left, but since then the losers have been spitting nails. ROS keeps telling one and all they're stressed, having a bad day etc etc, as he swaggers around running things . He's a one man comedy act.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Sadly most of the corporate stuff is just PR fluff like planting trees or whatever. The big ones are transport and energy generation which need government intervention IMO.

But yeah: Carbon neutrality - Wikipedia

The U.K. has generally lead the world on this (and should considering it kinda caused the problem with the industrial revolution), my worry with targets 30 years away is current governments fee they can leave it to future ones. I like these kind of short term targets that focus minds.

Best thing they could do is stop playing silly buggers with solar and on shore wind and electric car grants/loans. The coalition basically cut the industry off at the knees for ideological reasons. Hoping Brexit means we see it as something to be world leaders on because we have all the right components.

Also hoping Boris’ Dad and missus have a word in his ear and he doesn’t listen to the mentalists and lobbyists in cabinet.

I agree. having the long term goal is important but it's just as important to have the incremental interim goals that will lead to that ultimate goal for each and every parliament to reach. Otherwise we get to 2034, are nowhere near the target and whoever is in charge at the time gets it in the neck. Meanwhile those that set that deadline and then did nothing about it because they didn't have any deadlines to meet are not just long since out of power, but probably dead.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Yes, exactly.

And thats the point, they have no idea what they voted for & they don't understand what they're going to get. Of course some people made informed decisions, and thats fine, but there can be little doubt that a whole lot more people had no clue what it was all about, were ignorant to the details and all they understood were the taglines about "taking back control" and "controlling our borders".

You're repeating what has been said on here for the last 3 years. Can you come up with anything new? How about the race card?
You don't actually know what you voted for by remaining , do you ?
Entertain us by telling us your own top ten reasons to remain, rather than simply slag off the leavers....
Shouldn' t be difficult for someone who knows it all. This should be funny.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

There are none.

What we're going to see now is a gradual tactical backing away from any & all promises & plans made by the brexiteers, which is exactly what they wanted in the first place. We already see it- Boris going off on one saying he won't be 'pushed around' by the EU today. The gameplan is to have the brexit they want, not the brexit you voted for, which will make a few people rich beyond rich, and mark my words, it will all be blamed on "the intransigence of our European friends" so that your average jingoistic guy on the street sees the EU as the enemy in all this.

And also, not many brexit voters will care, because they "just want it done"- some will- but mostly people won't care as long as brexit happens, the majority couldn't care less about deals as they "got their country back", whatever the hell that means.

Brexit voters- you got played & you're going to continue to be played all the way to crash out day, which is a nailed on inevitability.

My God, Isn't the world unfair ? Still, you can put everything right on here.:emoji_laughing: