The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (2 Viewers)

[Astute]

There is loads of money in the UK. Just no money tree. That is a problem. Never mind blame the EU - whilst we still can. As regards AfD, the next test is 18102017 in Niedersachsen ( Lower Saxony ). Pity their party leader in Saxony has just had his house searched by the police and the DPP. And, no it is not left wingers that have caused this, but his own party colleagues who have accused him of dipping the party till for thousands. Amongst other things he has billed for fictious Tv and computers ... and excessive alcoholic drinks. He has no immunity until 24. October when parliament resumes. It will be a good test of opinion.

So when did I blame the EU for governments not keeping up with infrastructure changes?

What I have continually said is that policies have made a massive change over the last 17 years. The amount of people coming here to live in the last 17 years has been massive. Yet some would like you to believe that it has hardly made any difference.

 

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[martcov]

Well I stand corrected...but it all amounts to classifying things for the sheer bloody hell of it! A banana is a banana. An onion is an onion. If the buyer chooses to buy to buy it that is up to them. If the buyer is not sufficiently able to make a decision as to whether they are good or bad banana or onion then they should be given help from a carer or good samara tan of somesorts

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No it isn’t and it has not purely to do with the EU that we need classification. If there were no EU we would have 28 countries classifying products. It is about consumer protection, unified packaging and more efficient transport. In actual fact it is a benefit of the EU that we have unified classification throughout Europe.

 

[martcov]

But again you piss on your own parade! The EU referendum WAS won outright according to the rules applied beforehand.
YOU & others now seem intent on destroying the democratic process to suit your own selfish needs/wants

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Mob rule by a minimal percentage. On one day you won, remain could have won in the next day. It was a very close call. Normally parliament decides such things after informed debate. Half the country are unhappy that we have Brexit and the more this unfolds, the more people will regret it.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Mob rule by a minimal percentage. On one day you won, remain could have won in the next day. It was a very close call. Normally parliament decides such things after informed debate. Half the country are unhappy that we have Brexit and the more this unfolds, the more people will regret it.

Stop being a tit.
I have said multiple times that I voted remain.

I have accepted the result of the democratic vote though.

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[Astute]

Mob rule by a minimal percentage. On one day you won, remain could have won in the next day. It was a very close call. Normally parliament decides such things after informed debate. Half the country are unhappy that we have Brexit and the more this unfolds, the more people will regret it.

Nearly 2m more people voted leave than stay. That is a lot of people to change their mind each day.

 

[martcov]

Again - YOU are seeing it through your own blinkers

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Read some of the posts on here. No matter what happens, it is Juncker‘s fault. Do you believe that the EU is ruled by Juncker and/ or Merkel? Do you really think that the EU is the fourth Reich or EUSSR, that Barnier is a dandy ( The Sun ) and Juncker is merely a drunkard ( The Sun )? We have been members for 40 years and have had a good economy for most of that time. Do you think Murdoch‘s newspapers have an agenda which supports British workers or big business? Or can you not see that he has a billionaire‘s agenda?

 

[martcov]

So when did I blame the EU for governments not keeping up with infrastructure changes?

What I have continually said is that policies have made a massive change over the last 17 years. The amount of people coming here to live in the last 17 years has been massive. Yet some would like you to believe that it has hardly made any difference.

Again, I was talking about the so called non existent money tree. We have money in the UK. It’s in the hands of a few. We are told that housing, roads etc are the EU‘s fault. Yes, immigrants make a difference, but there is enough money - a lot generated by the immigrants- to do something about these things. Forget the EU, forget Brexit and start asking what the fxxk is the government doing and why aren’t they taxing the right people and chasing the hedge funds with Cayman Isles etc stashes?

 

[martcov]

Nearly 2m more people voted leave than stay. That is a lot of people to change their mind each day.

Percentage wise it isn’t.

 

[martcov]

Stop being a tit.
I have said multiple times that I voted remain.

I have accepted the result of the democratic vote though.

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I have accepted it, but I am not going to change my viewpoint that it is a total cock up and will end badly.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I have accepted it, but I am not going to change my viewpoint that it is a total cock up and will end badly.

Out of chaos come order...even perceived chaos.

Maybe the powers that be WANT to be seen as in disarray?

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[Sky-bluer1]

Out of chaos come order...even perceived chaos.

Maybe the powers that be WANT to be seen as in disarray?

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[Sky-bluer1]

What a strange mind set you have. Why would anyone want to be seen as in disarray

 

[Kingokings204]

What a strange mind set you have. Why would anyone want to be seen as in disarray

I agree with your sentiments but 18 out of 25 of current cabinet members voted remain. They don't want to leave the EU.

Again, if remain had of won and put david Davis as PM or Boris then how would of that of gone down.

The problem is we haven't got a set date to leave the EU we have a transitional proposal of "around" 2 years and that takes us to March 2021. 5 years after the referendum and we all know what's going to happen in March 2021.another year or 2?

So again I agree with your sentiments but when the majority of the political class including this cabinet don't actually want to leave it's not hard to think it's a total fudge job so far.

 

[Kingokings204]

I have accepted it, but I am not going to change my viewpoint that it is a total cock up and will end badly.

You haven't accepted it. You come across a very sore loser. I respect you voted the other way to remain but your loath of democratic referendums and rational to the reasons why leave won and a clear want for this country now to fail is for all to see.

No one likes a sore loser.

 

[Kingokings204]

Mob rule by a minimal percentage. On one day you won, remain could have won in the next day. It was a very close call. Normally parliament decides such things after informed debate. Half the country are unhappy that we have Brexit and the more this unfolds, the more people will regret it.

That's again as Bazza is saying your opinion. I take the opinion people will come around and we will flourish as a country and when this government decides to make some bold decisions and things get sorted there will be no looking back. Just my opinion though.

As for your comment above on another day remain could of won that's perhaps true but that's like saying in a cup final we lost 1-0 today but on another day we could of won 1-0. Well you didn't. We all knew the voting date we all knew the choice was remain or leave and one had to win. Leave won.

I do accept your point it's a very simple basic question for such a major issue and can lead to massive splits but that was the question asked and 34 million people voted in our biggest democratic exercise ever. It got people talking and voting like no other time. It was a huge success on that part.

 

[Astute]

Again, I was talking about the so called non existent money tree. We have money in the UK. It’s in the hands of a few. We are told that housing, roads etc are the EU‘s fault. Yes, immigrants make a difference, but there is enough money - a lot generated by the immigrants- to do something about these things. Forget the EU, forget Brexit and start asking what the fxxk is the government doing and why aren’t they taxing the right people and chasing the hedge funds with Cayman Isles etc stashes?

OK.

So what surplus does immigration bring here? Do you know how many billions it costs to build a single new road? Or even how many billions it would cost just to add a single lane to a single motorway? Do you know how many billions it would cost to build the homes we already need?

So you are mentioning Juncker again. And you are mentioning loss of tax that should be payable here again. Isn't it strange that Juncker was running Luxembourg when they started doing deals with companies taking advantage of EU rules so they could pay much less tax to Luxembourg and hardly any in the countries where they are making their money. And now the EU is saying these deals are illegal you don't hear anything from Juncker.

 

[Astute]

You haven't accepted it. You come across a very sore loser. I respect you voted the other way to remain but your loath of democratic referendums and rational to the reasons why leave won and a clear want for this country now to fail is for all to see.

No one likes a sore loser.

He didn't vote. He lives in Germany and by the sound of it has done for many years.

 

[Astute]

One more thing Mart. You seem to believe in proportional representation. That is why you say Merkel should run Germany with help from 4 other parties.

The UK has nearly 13% of the EU population. Over an eighth of the EU population lives in the UK. All of us on our small islands when the EU covers a massive area. We also pump billions into the EU each year. If proportional representation is good for Germany why isn't it good for us?

 

[martcov]

Out of chaos come order...even perceived chaos.

Maybe the powers that be WANT to be seen as in disarray?

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Yes of course they do... May wants to be seen as ineffective, Johnson wants to be seen as a buffoon and habitual liar, Gove wants to be seen as slimy and dishonest and the pro Brexit gutter press wants to make the government look like a group of squabbling public schoolboys... yes obviously a remain conspiracy...;-)

 

[martcov]

One more thing Mart. You seem to believe in proportional representation. That is why you say Merkel should run Germany with help from 4 other parties.

The UK has nearly 13% of the EU population. Over an eighth of the EU population lives in the UK. All of us on our small islands when the EU covers a massive area. We also pump billions into the EU each year. If proportional representation is good for Germany why isn't it good for us?

There is no proportional representation in the UK, but there is in the EU. What’s your point? As regards Merkel she got by far the largest vote of 7 parties in parliament. May got a higher % because there are less parties to share the vote and because of not having proportional representation, many votes for her would otherwise have been wasted.

 

[martcov]

He didn't vote. He lives in Germany and by the sound of it has done for many years.

Voted yes for the common market in the first referendum, wasn’t allowed to vote in the second and voting with my feet now. Have my German language and my German politics and culture tests booked for December. Both necessary in order to get German / EU citizenship. What is good for Farage‘s children is good for me. FYI e.g. 64% of people in Northern Ireland already have EU citizenship via the ROI. It seems to be in demand.

 

[clint van damme]

Read some of the posts on here. No matter what happens, it is Juncker‘s fault. Do you believe that the EU is ruled by Juncker and/ or Merkel? Do you really think that the EU is the fourth Reich or EUSSR, that Barnier is a dandy ( The Sun ) and Juncker is merely a drunkard ( The Sun )? We have been members for 40 years and have had a good economy for most of that time. Do you think Murdoch‘s newspapers have an agenda which supports British workers or big business? Or can you not see that he has a billionaire‘s agenda?

"I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. “That’s easy,” he replied. “When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.” - Anthony Hilton, London Evening Standard.

 

[Sick Boy]

You haven't accepted it. You come across a very sore loser. I respect you voted the other way to remain but your loath of democratic referendums and rational to the reasons why leave won and a clear want for this country now to fail is for all to see.

No one likes a sore loser.

It's how democracy works.

Sadly the polarisation is going to affect the country for decades, IMO.

 

[clint van damme]

That's again as Bazza is saying your opinion. I take the opinion people will come around and we will flourish as a country and when this government decides to make some bold decisions and things get sorted there will be no looking back. Just my opinion though.

As for your comment above on another day remain could of won that's perhaps true but that's like saying in a cup final we lost 1-0 today but on another day we could of won 1-0. Well you didn't. We all knew the voting date we all knew the choice was remain or leave and one had to win. Leave won.

I do accept your point it's a very simple basic question for such a major issue and can lead to massive splits but that was the question asked and 34 million people voted in our biggest democratic exercise ever. It got people talking and voting like no other time. It was a huge success on that part.

that's not just his opinion that was the opinion of some very high profile leavers prior to the referendum, that if the result was that close it wouldn't be the end of it.
I don't want a second referendum but you can see why, based on those comments, people can justify calling for one.

The best thing would have been for no one to discuss a second referendum before the result of the first one were actually known that horse has bolted now.

 

[Sick Boy]

He didn't vote. He lives in Germany and by the sound of it has done for many years.

No matter how long they've live abroad, all UK citizens should be allowed a vote for life. Not sure many other countries have such a system.

 

[Sick Boy]

that's not just his opinion that was the opinion of some very high profile leavers prior to the referendum, that if the result was that close it wouldn't be the end of it.
I don't want a second referendum but you can see why, based on those comments, people can justify calling for one.

The best thing would have been for no one to discuss a second referendum before the result of the first one were actually known that horse has bolted now.

Wasn't Nigel Farage one of the first?

 

[clint van damme]

Wasn't Nigel Farage one of the first?

he was the main one. He quite clearly thought Leave would lose and was already setting his stall out for a 2nd referendum.

 

[Sick Boy]

he was the main one. He quite clearly thought Leave would lose and was already setting his stall out for a 2nd referendum.

That's strange. KoK has stated before that he closely follows Farage's career and knows a lot about him, it's strange that he missed that bit.

 

[skybluetony176]

Out of chaos come order...even perceived chaos.

Maybe the powers that be WANT to be seen as in disarray?

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Ha ha ha, yeah it’s all an act. Good one.

 

[skybluetony176]

I agree with your sentiments but 18 out of 25 of current cabinet members voted remain. They don't want to leave the EU.

Again, if remain had of won and put david Davis as PM or Boris then how would of that of gone down.

The problem is we haven't got a set date to leave the EU we have a transitional proposal of "around" 2 years and that takes us to March 2021. 5 years after the referendum and we all know what's going to happen in March 2021.another year or 2?

So again I agree with your sentiments but when the majority of the political class including this cabinet don't actually want to leave it's not hard to think it's a total fudge job so far.

That doesn’t explain the disastrous decision to call an early election does it. Who would deliberately set out to look a complete fuck up expecting to increase a majority. The election campaign let the cat out of the bag. This government is a complete fuck up, probably the worse government in living memory. Certainly mine. It’s no act.

 

[Grendel]

No matter how long they've live abroad, all UK citizens should be allowed a vote for life. Not sure many other countries have such a system.

Scotland for one

 

[martcov]

OK.

So what surplus does immigration bring here? Do you know how many billions it costs to build a single new road? Or even how many billions it would cost just to add a single lane to a single motorway? Do you know how many billions it would cost to build the homes we already need?

So you are mentioning Juncker again. And you are mentioning loss of tax that should be payable here again. Isn't it strange that Juncker was running Luxembourg when they started doing deals with companies taking advantage of EU rules so they could pay much less tax to Luxembourg and hardly any in the countries where they are making their money. And now the EU is saying these deals are illegal you don't hear anything from Juncker.

If Juncker has done anything illegal then he should be punished. These deals should be illegal. There should be a coordinated fiscal system for companies in the EU. It only benefits big business if countries under bid each other with corporation tax. Which is why the UK shouldn’t become a tax haven at the expense of infrastructure and housing projects.

 

[martcov]

That's strange. KoK has stated before that he closely follows Farage's career and knows a lot about him, it's strange that he missed that bit.

Then he must know that he was seen applying for his kids‘ German citizenship after the referendum having just denied EU rights to most British kids in the future.

 

[Kingokings204]

That's strange. KoK has stated before that he closely follows Farage's career and knows a lot about him, it's strange that he missed that bit.

He was quoted as saying "a result of 52-48 would be unfinished business" hardy a call for a second referendum is it?

It isn't in my book but if it is in your book then Scotland had a bigger result to stay in the U.K. (54%) In 2014 and wanted a second referendum already by now.

That's why I accept Marts point on referendum on big questions being so decisive but I celebrate us getting these decisions to make for our country. 34million voting should be celebrated as a success. Indeed it is.

 

[Kingokings204]

Then he must know that he was seen applying for his kids‘ German citizenship after the referendum having just denied EU rights to most British kids in the future.

Considering he has just one child under the age of 16 I would change your grammar from "kids" to kid as that would be more accurate thus making your post a bit strange on how he was "seen" when if he did do it for his one child then surely he would of done it via the internet?