The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (20 Viewers)

[Astute]

our economy is struggling more than other G7 countries, it's still growing, which is good, but less than the other G7 countries and at less than predicted.
Our exports are up, but the extra money that companies have made they are saving for a rainy Brexit day and not re-investing, as predicted by Liam Fox, (this has been confirmed by the ONS).
DEFRA have today released a report which says farmers income will be slashed if we can't seal a post Brexit free trade deal with the EU.
Why are you more concerned by the Labour budget, which will never be implemented than the actual real negative economic indicators, (which in my opinion are starting to out weigh the positives),
Yet your accusing others of only seeing things from one side!
People should be concentrating on what is happening rather than what could have happened in Labour had got in, they didn't, it's irrelevant.

I have mentioned both sides in a negative way. You won't let anyone say anything negative against Labour.

Our economy isn't struggling. So how can you say it is struggling more than others?

Other countries are starting from a lower base. Look at their real numbers.

 

---

[Astute]

wrong, lesser of two evils for me.

The EU is a fiasco whichever way you try to word it.

 

[clint van damme]

I have mentioned both sides in a negative way. You won't let anyone say anything negative against Labour.

Our economy isn't struggling. So how can you say it is struggling more than others?

Other countries are starting from a lower base. Look at their real numbers.

it's pointless going on about Labour, they're not in government!! If they get in, then will be the time to analyse what they're doing. We may as well talk about the Greens or the Libdems FFS!

Our economy isn't doing well, there are mixed indicators and there are some good signs but it's not doing well and growth predictions are constantly been down graded, these are what people should be looking at, not what was in a manifesto by a party that will never be in government to implement it.

The focus should be on the current government.

 

[clint van damme]

The EU is a fiasco whichever way you try to word it.

i would rather be in the EU in it's current form than trying to leave it under this government. You wouldn't that's up to you.

 

[Sick Boy]

our economy is struggling more than other G7 countries, it's still growing, which is good, but less than the other G7 countries and at less than predicted.
Our exports are up, but the extra money that companies have made they are saving for a rainy Brexit day and not re-investing, as predicted by Liam Fox, (this has been confirmed by the ONS).
DEFRA have today released a report which says farmers income will be slashed if we can't seal a post Brexit free trade deal with the EU.
Why are you more concerned by the Labour budget, which will never be implemented than the actual real negative economic indicators, (which in my opinion are starting to out weigh the positives),
Yet your accusing others of only seeing things from one side!
People should be concentrating on what is happening rather than what could have happened in Labour had got in, they didn't, it's irrelevant.

Yeah...but...no...but...labour caused the credit crunch you dribbling left-wing europhile lunatic!!!

 

[Astute]

it's pointless going on about Labour, they're not in government!! If they get in, then will be the time to analyse what they're doing. We may as well talk about the Greens or the Libdems FFS!

Our economy isn't doing well, there are mixed indicators and there are some good signs but it's not doing well and growth predictions are constantly been down graded, these are what people should be looking at, not what was in a manifesto by a party that will never be in government to implement it.

The focus should be on the current government.

Are you saying that we should ignore what Labour are doing and just hope that they get voted in at some stage?

Some people will vote Tory no matter what. Some people will vote Labour no matter what. Then you have the floating voters. They look at what is going on. They try and work out who is offering the best and telling less lies. It is fine for you to ignore what Labour says. But if it doesn't add up we will have many years of Tory rule again.

Our economy isn't struggling. It could be better. But how do you have record employment if you are struggling?

 

[Grendel]

Are you saying that we should ignore what Labour are doing and just hope that they get voted in at some stage?

Some people will vote Tory no matter what. Some people will vote Labour no matter what. Then you have the floating voters. They look at what is going on. They try and work out who is offering the best and telling less lies. It is fine for you to ignore what Labour says. But if it doesn't add up we will have many years of Tory rule again.

Our economy isn't struggling. It could be better. But how do you have record employment if you are struggling?

He's looking at growth figures but it's a silly argument. If you are on the floor the percentage growth you can achieve is far more than higher up the pyramid. Greece can have higher growth. I think last time he used this I found some country like Peru that has yoy growth more than Germany.

It's meaningless.

 

[Astute]

Yeah...but...no...but...labour caused the credit crunch you dribbling left-wing europhile lunatic!!!

A big pat on the back from someone else that doesn't care if the Labour promises don't add up.

I want a Labour government. They are more for the people than the rich. But I am old enough to know what gets a government voted in. We had lots vote Labour instead of Tory because of Brexit. It was only enough to just stop the Tories getting the majority. Nothing else. Yet it was treated like a victory by many. We got a Tory government. It was a defeat.

 

[clint van damme]

Are you saying that we should ignore what Labour are doing and just hope that they get voted in at some stage?

Some people will vote Tory no matter what. Some people will vote Labour no matter what. Then you have the floating voters. They look at what is going on. They try and work out who is offering the best and telling less lies. It is fine for you to ignore what Labour says. But if it doesn't add up we will have many years of Tory rule again.

Our economy isn't struggling. It could be better. But how do you have record employment if you are struggling?

if there had just been a general election called then no, they shouldn't be ignored. But the tories have just won the election, there in for the next 5 years, they'll be steering us through Brexit, going on about Labour at the moment is just diversionary.
As I said regarding the economy, there are some good indicators, you've mentioned one, high employment, but there are a lot of negatives.

 

[martcov]

Are you saying that we should ignore what Labour are doing and just hope that they get voted in at some stage?

Some people will vote Tory no matter what. Some people will vote Labour no matter what. Then you have the floating voters. They look at what is going on. They try and work out who is offering the best and telling less lies. It is fine for you to ignore what Labour says. But if it doesn't add up we will have many years of Tory rule again.

Our economy isn't struggling. It could be better. But how do you have record employment if you are struggling?

If nearly everyone has a job, no one can claim EU citizens have stolen their jobs. I was in Bournemouth a couple of times recently and never saw a British person working in our hotel. How is our booming tourist industry ( weak pound ) going to cope with a Brexodus of EU staff after a cliff edge Brexit?

 

[Astute]

He's looking at growth figures but it's a silly argument. If you are on the floor the percentage growth you can achieve is far more than higher up the pyramid. Greece can have higher growth. I think last time he used this I found some country like Peru that has yoy growth more than Germany.

It's meaningless.

I'm going to move to a country with very high unemployment rate. They will have a massive growth rate if things go well for a few months.

 

[Astute]

if there had just been a general election called then no, they shouldn't be ignored. But the tories have just won the election, there in for the next 5 years, they'll be steering us through Brexit, going on about Labour at the moment is just diversionary.
As I said regarding the economy, there are some good indicators, you've mentioned one, high employment, but there are a lot of negatives.

So how close to the next election should we wait for Labour to sort themselves out?

They need to sort themselves out ASAP. Then have a few good years in opposition. Then Labour would have a real chance. Much better than drifting along and celebrating the opposition just missing the majority like a victory.

 

[clint van damme]

He's looking at growth figures but it's a silly argument. If you are on the floor the percentage growth you can achieve is far more than higher up the pyramid. Greece can have higher growth. I think last time he used this I found some country like Peru that has yoy growth more than Germany.

It's meaningless.

OBR downgrades it's UK forecasts for the next 5 years,
IMF called the UK a notable exception to an improving global outlook but it's meaningless, OK then!

 

[Astute]

If nearly everyone has a job, no one can claim EU citizens have stolen their jobs. I was in Bournemouth a couple of times recently and never saw a British person working in our hotel. How is our booming tourist industry ( weak pound ) going to cope with a Brexodus of EU staff after a cliff edge Brexit?

Come on then Mart. Who has said about EU citizens stealing jobs?

Do I have to remind you of my normal point that always gets forgotten about of having millions of homeless people in the UK?

 

[clint van damme]

So how close to the next election should we wait for Labour to sort themselves out?

They need to sort themselves out ASAP. Then have a few good years in opposition. Then Labour would have a real chance. Much better than drifting along and celebrating the opposition just missing the majority like a victory.

them sorting themselves out or not is irrelevant, we[re discussing the ramifications of Brexit, Labour aren't involved. Unless May decides to put a cross party negotiating team in their input will be minimal.

 

[Astute]

OBR downgrades it's UK forecasts for the next 5 years,
IMF called the UK a notable exception to an improving global outlook but it's meaningless, OK then!

Forecasts?

They don't mean much. Remember the forecasts for if there was a leave vote? We were supposed to get high unemployment for starters. Over a year later we have record employment.

If someone with the same views as you made a forecast and people believed it we would be a third world country in 5 years.

 

[Astute]

them sorting themselves out or not is irrelevant, we[re discussing the ramifications of Brexit, Labour aren't involved. Unless May decides to put a cross party negotiating team in their input will be minimal.

Everything is irrelevant to you and Mart when you don't have a decent answer for it.

 

[clint van damme]

Forecasts?

They don't mean much. Remember the forecasts for if there was a leave vote? We were supposed to get high unemployment for starters. Over a year later we have record employment.

If someone with the same views as you made a forecast and people believed it we would be a third world country in 5 years.

So where would you suggest going for information on the economy then if you're dismissing the OBR and the IMF, I accept there not always right but they've been often quoted by the tories on this board though now what their saying doesn't fit the agenda I'm sure they'll be dismissed as a nest of communists!

. And while it's an exaggeration to say I would have this country as third world in 5 years I believe it will be a much poorer country to live in for many but the privileged few by the time this current mob have finished. I can pretend that's not the case and say everything's great but I'd be lying, I think it's going to shit, so why shouldn't I say so?
Of course, that's my opinion based on what I see, I could be wrong and I hope I am but the signs don't look good to me.

 

[Astute]

So where would you suggest going for information on the economy then if you're dismissing the OBR and the IMF, I accept there not always right but they've been often quoted by the tories on this board though now what their saying doesn't fit the agenda I'm sure they'll be dismissed as a nest of communists!

. And while it's an exaggeration to say I would have this country as third world in 5 years I believe it will be a much poorer country to live in for many but the privileged few by the time this current mob have finished. I can pretend that's not the case and say everything's great but I'd be lying, I think it's going to shit, so why shouldn't I say so?
Of course, that's my opinion based on what I see, I could be wrong and I hope I am but the signs don't look good to me.

So what is the worse that can happen? Will the worse happen?

The monetary crash happened partly because of wrong forecasts. Forecasts are a guess. Your guesses are as good as mine.

I have mentioned how I think it will go. Why am I not allowed to say if you are? Same point as you have made.

OK. So the EU are more interested in making a point to the other EU countries than doing what is best for themself and their people. We will buy some components for what we make from the EU. We will have to pay a 2% tariff on these. That does not put the price of the finished article up by 2%. Monetary movements makes more of a difference.

Are you now believing what the Tories are saying or does it go with your point?

We don't know which way it will go. It could be good. It could be bad. But middle of the road is favourite. Yes the EU are pissed off that they will have to make up with the billions they won't be getting from us each year. But will they make it even worse for their members by trying to make it hard for us?

 

[Captain Dart]

The third party....Luxembourg....normally gets a bit of tax instead of the proper amount payable. All tax should be paid where it is due and not in a country where they just register for tax reasons.

The tax system needs major overhaul, many international companies are taking the piss.

 

[clint van damme]

So what is the worse that can happen? Will the worse happen?

The monetary crash happened partly because of wrong forecasts. Forecasts are a guess. Your guesses are as good as mine.

I have mentioned how I think it will go. Why am I not allowed to say if you are? Same point as you have made.

OK. So the EU are more interested in making a point to the other EU countries than doing what is best for themself and their people. We will buy some components for what we make from the EU. We will have to pay a 2% tariff on these. That does not put the price of the finished article up by 2%. Monetary movements makes more of a difference.

Are you now believing what the Tories are saying or does it go with your point?

We don't know which way it will go. It could be good. It could be bad. But middle of the road is favourite. Yes the EU are pissed off that they will have to make up with the billions they won't be getting from us each year. But will they make it even worse for their members by trying to make it hard for us?

I've never said you're not allowed to have your say, quite the contary, and I accept I could be wrong about how I see this all panning out. What I can't understand is why people keep going on about Labour who aren't involved in this process. They're entitled to do so, but I can't understand it.

"OK. So the EU are more interested in making a point to the other EU countries than doing what is best for themself and their people"

I made a similar observation the other day, and it's a stance that could end up with us all feeling some pain.

 

[martcov]

Everything is irrelevant to you and Mart when you don't have a decent answer for it.

Labour is irrelevant to me at the moment. I am more interested in what’s going to happen to my rights.

 

[Kingokings204]

Labour is irrelevant to me at the moment. I am more interested in what’s going to happen to my rights.

Nothing will happen to you personally. Life will carry on and everyone will be fine but future rules may change and so on and so forth.

Why May doesn't guarantee EU citizens rights in this country is beyond me. I don't see what it achieves by not. Same with the EU though tbf. As bad as eachother on this one. How hard for both sides to agree citizens rights straight off the bat?

 

[Sick Boy]

Nothing will happen to you personally. Life will carry on and everyone will be fine but future rules may change and so on and so forth.

Why May doesn't guarantee EU citizens rights in this country is beyond me. I don't see what it achieves by not. Same with the EU though tbf. As bad as eachother on this one. How hard for both sides to agree citizens rights straight off the bat?

Both sides shold say that upon the end of freedom of movement, all those resident in a particular country should be offered EU wide/UK citizenship.

She has already said EUcitizens in the UK are bargaining chips. Vile woman.

 

[Astute]

Labour is irrelevant to me at the moment. I am more interested in what’s going to happen to my rights.

I have been told that we should know who our local MEP is. It is the EU that is refusing to do a deal which guarantees the rights of EU citizens living elsewhere to where they come from. So what could be better than starting with your MEP?

 

[Astute]

Both sides shold say that upon the end of freedom of movement, all those resident in a particular country should be offered EU wide/UK citizenship.

She has already said EUcitizens in the UK are bargaining chips. Vile woman.

What a total lie.

It is the EU that is refusing to talk about it. Full stop.

But you won't hear anything said against the EU.

 

[Grendel]

Both sides shold say that upon the end of freedom of movement, all those resident in a particular country should be offered EU wide/UK citizenship.

She has already said EUcitizens in the UK are bargaining chips. Vile woman.

Have the Eu stated anything on the issue on uk citizens living abroad?

 

[Sick Boy]

What a total lie.

It is the EU that is refusing to talk about it. Full stop.

But you won't hear anything said against the EU.

Back in the real world it is one of the EU's sticking points before moving onto a deal.

 

[Grendel]

Back in the real world it is one of the EU's sticking points before moving onto a deal.

So they've agreed have they on their side?

 

[Astute]

Nothing will happen to you personally. Life will carry on and everyone will be fine but future rules may change and so on and so forth.

Why May doesn't guarantee EU citizens rights in this country is beyond me. I don't see what it achieves by not. Same with the EU though tbf. As bad as eachother on this one. How hard for both sides to agree citizens rights straight off the bat?

I fully agree.

They are all acting like a bunch of spoilt kids. Residents and their plans should come first. But if May guarantees the rights of the millions from the EU here could she guarantee the rights of the million UK residents in the EU?

The whole situation is shit.

 

[Sick Boy]

So they've agreed have they on their side?

Can you rephrase that?

 

[Grendel]

I fully agree.

They are all acting like a bunch of spoilt kids. Residents and their plans should come first. But if May guarantees the rights of the millions from the EU here could she guarantee the rights of the million UK residents in the EU?

The whole situation is shit.

Sick boy believes the eu have agreed on their side

 

[Astute]

Back in the real world it is one of the EU's sticking points before moving onto a deal.

Why doesn't the EU want to sort it out now then?

 

[Sick Boy]

I fully agree.

They are all acting like a bunch of spoilt kids. Residents and their plans should come first. But if May guarantees the rights of the millions from the EU here could she guarantee the rights of the million UK residents in the EU?

The whole situation is shit.

Without a deal no side can guarantee anything.

 

[Astute]

Sick boy believes the eu have agreed on their side

They have refused to talk about it.