The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

Kingokings204 · Oct 13, 2017

chiefdave said:
The EU have published their positon so I don't see them as making it up as they go along:
Position paper transmitted to the UK: essential principles on the financial settlement

As far as I can tell we haven't published our version.

Still no figures I noticed. Anyone can chuck a load of things on a piece of paper and say we are owed for this this and this.

Then you have to offset whatever that figure is against all our list whatever that is and then you come to a figure. No side knows what that is. It's a negotiation. It's complex but we have to stay strong and know we have a good hand in these negotiations. For example if they push us so far we end up walking away they won't get a penny piece so both sides need to give and take a little.

martcov · Oct 13, 2017

Captain Dart said:
Nonsense, he is an politician appointed to a top job by other politicians, members of a self perpetuating oligarchy.

What is political post

mrtrench · Oct 13, 2017

Don't know if it has been mentioned on here (drifted away as everything became circular). Merkel gave a talk to German industry recently and said that she would seek the deal most favourable to Germany. Although this should be bleeding obvious, it's good to hear her say it.

Astute · Oct 13, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Still no figures I noticed. Anyone can chuck a load of things on a piece of paper and say we are owed for this this and this.

Then you have to offset whatever that figure is against all our list whatever that is and then you come to a figure. No side knows what that is. It's a negotiation. It's complex but we have to stay strong and know we have a good hand in these negotiations. For example if they push us so far we end up walking away they won't get a penny piece so both sides need to give and take a little.

Are they saying that we will get a rebate for all the money we have put into all of the EU buildings? If so how much is it worth?

You have to laugh when someone says they have published their side when all they have done is make it look more complex.

Ashdown · Oct 13, 2017

It does now seem our friends in the EU are instigating some behind the scenes talks on trade. Through all this I genuinely think that they thought the political uncertainty here would see the UK fold. The reality is although some prices have gone up and some people may have had to make some different purchasing choices, the country as a whole is doing really well with many financial indicators showing positives. The only negative stuff is desperately being put out by the left wing media outlets and self interested Remain politicians like Blair and Cable.

Astute · Oct 13, 2017

mrtrench said:
Don't know if it has been mentioned on here (drifted away as everything became circular). Merkel gave a talk to German industry recently and said that she would seek the deal most favourable to Germany. Although this should be bleeding obvious, it's good to hear her say it.

Let me think.

Cars carry a tariff of 10%.

WHY IT MATTERS

German car companies rely on the UK market for a significant portion of their sales, and worry that a Brexit could destabilize their business.

FACTS
A recent poll for Handelsblatt found that executives of many large companies worry that a UK exit from the European Union will have a damaging effect on German businesses.

The UK is the largest export market worldwide for German cars, according to the German Association of the Automotive Industry.

Almost one in three cars, or 810,000 cars, come from Germany. That’s around a fifth of the total number it exports worldwide.

Ashdown · Oct 13, 2017

Astute said:
Let me think.

Cars carry a tariff of 10%.

WHY IT MATTERS

German car companies rely on the UK market for a significant portion of their sales, and worry that a Brexit could destabilize their business.

FACTS
A recent poll for Handelsblatt found that executives of many large companies worry that a UK exit from the European Union will have a damaging effect on German businesses.

The UK is the largest export market worldwide for German cars, according to the German Association of the Automotive Industry.

Almost one in three cars, or 810,000 cars, come from Germany. That’s around a fifth of the total number it exports worldwide.

They are good though at making cars !

Astute · Oct 13, 2017

Ashdown said:
They are good though at making cars !

They are. Although not as reliable as they used to be. Then you have the VW emissions fiasco.

Then we could have a move in the financial markets as well as a 10% tariff hike. It could add up to 10k on the average German car sold here.

10k? It would put many off buying one.

Kingokings204 · Oct 13, 2017

Ashdown said:
They are good though at making cars !

That's the thing about this "deal" with the EU. UK Policticans and EU beaurocrats don't make trade happen. A customer will see a product like a car drive it and like it then agree the price is value for money and then buy it.

It's not decided by barnier and Davies in the closed doors of Brussels. Free trade is beneficial for everyone.

Astute · Oct 13, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
That's the thing about this "deal" with the EU. UK Policticans and EU beaurocrats don't make trade happen. A customer will see a product like a car drive it and like it then agree the price is value for money and then buy it.

It's not decided by barnier and Davies in the closed doors of Brussels. Free trade is beneficial for everyone.

Which is why I have been saying that there will be a trade deal if the EU cares about their people and the countries involved.

They will need more money off Germany after we leave not less.

But I still don't trust the EU to do what is best for their residents.

mrtrench · Oct 13, 2017

Astute said:
Which is why I have been saying that there will be a trade deal if the EU cares about their people and the countries involved.

They will need more money off Germany after we leave not less.

But I still don't trust the EU to do what is best for their residents.

They are playing extreme hardball, I imagine believing they are so big that they can railroad over everything. The media is moaning about lack of progress and some are leaping on the opportunity to rubbish the UK or using it for political ends (me and my ragtag bunch of innumerate Marxists could do this so much better). There are an awful lot of noses being threatened to be cut off to spite faces within the EU just now. However I am proud that we are not rolling over. Merkel stating that she wants what's best for Germany is the start, I hope, of some realistic cooperation and flexibility.

Astute · Oct 13, 2017

mrtrench said:
Merkel stating that she wants what's best for Germany is the start, I hope, of some realistic cooperation and flexibility.

We will see who wears the trousers. Merkel, Juncker or Barnier.

Hopefully Merkel isn't just saying it to keep her people happy and that with being the biggest EU country and the biggest cash contributor by far she does have a say.

clint van damme · Oct 13, 2017

mrtrench said:
They are playing extreme hardball, I imagine believing they are so big that they can railroad over everything. The media is moaning about lack of progress and some are leaping on the opportunity to rubbish the UK or using it for political ends (me and my ragtag bunch of innumerate Marxists could do this so much better). There are an awful lot of noses being threatened to be cut off to spite faces within the EU just now. However I am proud that we are not rolling over. Merkel stating that she wants what's best for Germany is the start, I hope, of some realistic cooperation and flexibility.

The BDI is trying to play hard ball but if you read between the lines their stance will soften if we commit to a longer transition period. That seems reasonable to me.

Astute · Oct 13, 2017

clint van damme said:
The BDI is trying to play hard ball but if you read between the lines their stance will soften if we commit to a longer transition period. That seems reasonable to me.

Is that the longer transition period that May offered that she got blasted for?

Ashdown · Oct 13, 2017

Astute said:
They are. Although not as reliable as they used to be. Then you have the VW emissions fiasco.

Then we could have a move in the financial markets as well as a 10% tariff hike. It could add up to 10k on the average German car sold here.

10k? It would put many off buying one.

10k, That's about all I'd be looking to pay for one full stop these days.

Ashdown · Oct 13, 2017

Another speech from that vile character Juncker then claiming 'They have to pay', 'They have to pay'................and this bastard means revenge without doubt not just financial obligation. Even some of the pro Remainers must surely be thrusting out the stiff upper lip at this repugnant man now !

martcov · Oct 13, 2017

mrtrench said:
Don't know if it has been mentioned on here (drifted away as everything became circular). Merkel gave a talk to German industry recently and said that she would seek the deal most favourable to Germany. Although this should be bleeding obvious, it's good to hear her say it.

Didn’t know she was negotiating for the EU. The best deal for German Industry is keeping the EU together.

martcov · Oct 13, 2017

Ashdown said:
Another speech from that vile character Juncker then claiming 'They have to pay', 'They have to pay'................and this bastard means revenge without doubt not just financial obligation. Even some of the pro Remainers must surely be thrusting out the stiff upper lip at this repugnant man now !

Without doubt? Not sure how you can read his mind.

martcov · Oct 13, 2017

Ashdown said:
10k, That's about all I'd be looking to pay for one full stop these days.

Never mind, the pound is falling which offsets a lot of that.

martcov · Oct 13, 2017

Astute said:
We will see who wears the trousers. Merkel, Juncker or Barnier.

Hopefully Merkel isn't just saying it to keep her people happy and that with being the biggest EU country and the biggest cash contributor by far she does have a say.

Which sort of contradicts your argument that a country the size of a city has the same amount of say.

martcov · Oct 13, 2017

Astute said:
Let me think.

Cars carry a tariff of 10%.

WHY IT MATTERS

German car companies rely on the UK market for a significant portion of their sales, and worry that a Brexit could destabilize their business.

FACTS
A recent poll for Handelsblatt found that executives of many large companies worry that a UK exit from the European Union will have a damaging effect on German businesses.

The UK is the largest export market worldwide for German cars, according to the German Association of the Automotive Industry.

Almost one in three cars, or 810,000 cars, come from Germany. That’s around a fifth of the total number it exports worldwide.

Brexit will have a damaging effect on all of EU Europe. Good for Trump good for Putin, but what do we get out of all this ( apart from hollow phrases )?

SIR ERNIE · Oct 13, 2017

martcov said:
Didn’t know she was negotiating for the EU. The best deal for German Industry is keeping the EU together.

Barnier is merely the monkey.

Merkel and German Industry are the Organ Grinder.

Hasn't she told you?

martcov · Oct 13, 2017

Astute said:
Which is why I have been saying that there will be a trade deal if the EU cares about their people and the countries involved.

They will need more money off Germany after we leave not less.

But I still don't trust the EU to do what is best for their residents.

Funny that. You complain that Juncker wants us to pay billions to make sure others don’t leave and that EU taxpayers aren’t hit with our bills, yet think he is not interested in er.... EU taxpayers and people who would have to make up any shortfall.

martcov · Oct 13, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
Barnier is merely the monkey.

Merkel and German Industry are the Organ Grinder.

Hasn't she told you?

Any deal has to ratified by 27 countries. I don’t think they are all monkeys of Merkel.

SIR ERNIE · Oct 13, 2017

Ashdown said:
They are good though at making cars !

They're good at making most things. Great quality.

Just had a large extension added to Ernie Towers and without consciously looking for German made products, realised that's what we ordered.

clint van damme · Oct 13, 2017

Astute said:
Is that the longer transition period that May offered that she got blasted for?

not by me. If the March 19 deadline is too soon it makes sense to extend it.

martcov · Oct 13, 2017

mrtrench said:
They are playing extreme hardball, I imagine believing they are so big that they can railroad over everything. The media is moaning about lack of progress and some are leaping on the opportunity to rubbish the UK or using it for political ends (me and my ragtag bunch of innumerate Marxists could do this so much better). There are an awful lot of noses being threatened to be cut off to spite faces within the EU just now. However I am proud that we are not rolling over. Merkel stating that she wants what's best for Germany is the start, I hope, of some realistic cooperation and flexibility.

Merkel has always wanted what’s best for Germany. Read the Mail and Express they will confirm that. A strong EU is what is best, politically, strategically and economically for Germany. And, as Germany is the strongest member, the EU as whole benefits from a strong and stable Germany. We are supposed not to roll over and no one here is expecting that, which is why Germans are calculating the effects of a hard Brexit as a possible alternative to a negotiated settlement.

It is too early to speculate what the German government will do as we don’t really have one at the moment. People from the SPD are clearing their desks and the newbies from the AfD are being shown around the Reichstag and having their seats allocated.

The coalition has not been sealed yet, and it can still go wrong. In which case it’s back to the reluctant SPD or a new election. The MPs get sworn in on 24. October.

I am not proud of Brexit and the negotiations. It will end in tears and is a total waste of time and resources which will leave us with a bodged compromise and in a worse position than before Brexit.

London will be weakened, the Irish problem will reappear, the country will be divided for years to come and all for what? Hot air, hollow phrases and endless rhetoric.

Ashdown · Oct 13, 2017

clint van damme said:
not by me. If the March 19 deadline is too soon it makes sense to extend it.

It shouldn't be too soon at all. It only will be delayed if the tactics of the EU muppets continue to stall any progress. Do they really think that their ill concealed spite to the UK is going to bring on a swing to stay with them in the long term !? I know a few Remain voters now who are indeed starting to see the Brussels crowd in another light and feel that perhaps the right decision was made after all.

SIR ERNIE · Oct 13, 2017

martcov said:
Any deal has to ratified by 27 countries. I don’t think they are all monkeys of Merkel.

You may not, but I suspect most of them realise by now that they are.

Ashdown · Oct 13, 2017

martcov said:
Merkel has always wanted what’s best for Germany. Read the Mail and Express they will confirm that. A strong EU is what is best, politically, strategically and economically for Germany. And, as Germany is the strongest member, the EU as whole benefits from a strong and stable Germany. We are supposed not to roll over and no one here is expecting that, which is why Germans are calculating the effects of a hard Brexit as a possible alternative to a negotiated settlement.

It is too early to speculate what the German government will do as we don’t really have one at the moment. People from the SPD are clearing their desks and the newbies from the AfD are being shown around the Reichstag and having their seats allocated.

The coalition has not been sealed yet, and it can still go wrong. In which case it’s back to the reluctant SPD or a new election. The MPs get sworn in on 24. October.

I am not proud of Brexit and the negotiations. It will end in tears and is a total waste of time and resources which will leave us with a bodged compromise and in a worse position than before Brexit.

London will be weakened, the Irish problem will reappear, the country will be divided for years to come and all for what? Hot air, hollow phrases and endless rhetoric.

Its for exactly these reasons that something had to change, especially with free movement !

Infrastructure chief Lord Adonis warns UK could face gridlocked future

Captain Dart · Oct 13, 2017

Ashdown said:
It does now seem our friends in the EU are instigating some behind the scenes talks on trade. Through all this I genuinely think that they thought the political uncertainty here would see the UK fold. The reality is although some prices have gone up and some people may have had to make some different purchasing choices, the country as a whole is doing really well with many financial indicators showing positives. The only negative stuff is desperately being put out by the left wing media outlets and self interested Remain politicians like Blair and Cable.

There is uncertainty in Germany too, what will happen to the prices of the goods they sell to the UK?

Astute · Oct 13, 2017

Ashdown said:
Another speech from that vile character Juncker then claiming 'They have to pay', 'They have to pay'................and this bastard means revenge without doubt not just financial obligation. Even some of the pro Remainers must surely be thrusting out the stiff upper lip at this repugnant man now !

Don't you listen to Mart and co? Juncker has no say in the EU :banghead:

mrtrench · Oct 13, 2017

martcov said:
Merkel has always wanted what’s best for Germany. Read the Mail and Express they will confirm that. A strong EU is what is best, politically, strategically and economically for Germany.

Of course she has; that's her job. Stopping Brexit may well be best for Germany; the EU have had ample opportunities to reform so that the EU works for everyone and they have declined to do so. Had they made more of an effort instead of assuming that Britain would stay, then I don't believe we'd have ever reached this point. Personally, even now, if they rethought their policies and behaviour I'd be in favour of staying. However for most that ship has sailed.

When she makes a statement like this, as you know, she doesn't mean that she can stop Brexit. She is recognising the constraint: Britain is leaving. She is saying that she will find the best deal for Germany *given that the UK is leaving*. If the EU continues to be completely inflexible that will result in no deal, which is not best for Germany. So, I hope it means they are going to start being more reasonable and losing all the spite.

Astute · Oct 13, 2017

martcov said:
Didn’t know she was negotiating for the EU. The best deal for German Industry is keeping the EU together.

So those who know much more than you....those in the German Association of the Automotive Industry are wrong?

Astute · Oct 13, 2017

martcov said:
Which sort of contradicts your argument that a country the size of a city has the same amount of say.

I say if. You say whatever makes the EU look better.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

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