Sick Boy
Super Moderator
That is an outright disgrace. This chancer should not be leading our negotiations. Ffs.
I know we have some very different views on this thread but even by the low standards we hold politicians to this is shocking. The biggest thing to happen in a generation if not longer and we are literally making it up as we go along.
I know we have some very different views on this thread but even by the low standards we hold politicians to this is shocking. The biggest thing to happen in a generation if not longer and we are literally making it up as we go along.
That's shocking if true. It doesn't matter if you're a remainer or leaver, stuff like this needs to be done for the good of us all. Heads need to be on the chopping block and I'm not talking metaphorically. They're screwing us all over.
Have you actually read what you're referring to with the NBFM and Herlitz. In both instances they were only looking at people suspected of being adults who were claiming free dental treatment as children. Given they were already suspected a result of 100% wouldn't be out of the question but in no way can you jump from the results to proclaiming that 78%, 82%, 87% or any other percentage of migrants are not children. The two things aren't related.As to your response on the dental study, it's about as much of a 'shove my fingers in my ears' response as the Swedish Government gave when they said Bernt Herlitz's comments were 'hateful'. In actual fact, what he has reported has turned out to be completely true. My point therefore still stands, reporting facts is now considered hate if they are not agreed with. Do you see how dangerous that is?
If you're also distancing Bernt Herlitz's findings to those of the NBFM then basically what you are saying is that there were two studies, and they both had the same findings? Funny that. Yes, there may be a swing of a few years, so those that tested as 15, could also be 18. It really is clutching at straws from you... Maybe it isn't 82% of migrants there that are not children, maybe it is 78%, or even 87%. The end result is that this is clearly an issue.
We knew this during the referendum campaign; neither side had a clue what they were talking about, neither had a plan (Remain should they lose, Leave should they win). It was all lies, creating fear and misinformation.
Since the result it is clear the negotiators have no plan (no plan at all let alone a Plan B,C or D) and are lurching from one crisis to the next just ‘hoping’ it will turn out for the best.
Cameron should be called to account for holding the referendum when his government had not given any thought to the possible outcome.
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In a way you can justify remain not having a plan as their whole campaign was based around everything staying the same. There was virtually no mention of remain and reform or acknowledgement that the EU needed to change. That's what lost them my vote.We knew this during the referendum campaign; neither side had a clue what they were talking about, neither had a plan (Remain should they lose, Leave should they win). It was all lies, creating fear and misinformation.
Since the result it is clear the negotiators have no plan (no plan at all let alone a Plan B,C or D) and are lurching from one crisis to the next just ‘hoping’ it will turn out for the best.
Cameron should be called to account for holding the referendum when his government had not given any thought to the possible outcome.
Have you actually read what you're referring to with the NBFM and Herlitz. In both instances they were only looking at people suspected of being adults who were claiming free dental treatment as children. Given they were already suspected a result of 100% wouldn't be out of the question but in no way can you jump from the results to proclaiming that 78%, 82%, 87% or any other percentage of migrants are not children. The two things aren't related.
Your approach, not for the first time, is anyone that doesn't fit in with your stance is making things up and part of some huge conspiracy. Those that do agree with you, no matter how 'dodgy' are accurate. Its confirmation bias at its finest.
82% of migrants did not turn out to be adults, that's a totally false statement.I guess it is a success that only 82% of migrants turned out to be adults instead of 100%. It fits in with your denial really well.
I think they had given thought to the outcome. It was remain or die. Hence the project fear. There was no way they thought they would lose. That isn't having a pop at anyone by the way, the remain campaign just alienated more people than it won over.
I've said it all along, had they played it maturely and offered here's the good bits, and here's the bad bits about the EU openly, people would have made a more rational decision. They wouldn't have felt bullied, and they wouldn't have felt as if the flaws of the EU were being covered up from them.
I was totally on the fence even 'til the day of the vote, but I will hold my hands up and say that my vote may have been different had I not found myself treated like shit for even daring to argue both sides from the middle. Just for trying to make my own judgement, that was classed as wrong. I think for that exact reason many people like me voted the other way. Nothing about the EU felt right at that time.
That's not to say the leave campaign was good, it wasn't. I think this is one way you can actually compare this to the American election. If it was anyone on the other side instead of Hillary, he probably wouldn't have won.
Its rapidly gone from we've done the reports but nobody is allowed to see them, to we've done them but a lot of vital information is missing (when parliament said they had to be released), to we've not done them at all. How can they get away with that?
I'm very centre politically but I was on the Leave vote from the start, I'm not sure I would have even changed my mind with a strong campaign from remain, but I know plenty of others who may have. I wrote a massive post around the time of the referendum as to the reasons, I've alluded to one of these only a day or two ago.
The EU has good and bad aspects, but I feel the bad outweigh the good. I feel that the EU should be a 2 tier system, with 2 currencies, It should have allowed free trade between us all, but things like currencies and FOM, could only be shared where living standards and wages are similar. So you would have the likes of Germany, UK, France, etc in one zone and then the poorer countries in the other zone, the likes of Greece can't even devalue.
if they don't exist then he should be sacked for not revealing so prior to the vote on them being released. A waste of time and money.
Anyone defending this clown shoe really needs a word with themselves.
That's a really weak response, even for your standards.
I guess it is a success that only 82% of migrants turned out to be adults instead of 100%. It fits in with your denial really well.
Your approach, not for the first time, is bizarre. You try and make it out that what I am saying is wrong, but then admit a large amount of migrants checked were in fact adults. It would be a lot more simple for you to just admit it straight away rather than play games, that way we could actually discuss how to fix the issue (unlike the Swedish government), instead of me having to put you on the ropes again...
Germany opted out of FOM for Romanians and Bulgarians for the first 5 years of their membership to avoid the mad rush and allow a bit of catch up. We didn’t. I don’t get that. Why?
Both Romania and Bulgaria joined in 2007, 15 countries had restrictions, 7 countries lifted restrictions early, some in 2009 and others in 2011, 8 maintained restrictions for the maximum of 7 years, including both Germany and the UK.
Both Romania and Bulgaria joined in 2007, 15 countries had restrictions, 7 countries lifted restrictions early, some in 2009 and others in 2011, 8 maintained restrictions for the maximum of 7 years, including both Germany and the UK.
In a way you can justify remain not having a plan as their whole campaign was based around everything staying the same. There was virtually no mention of remain and reform or acknowledgement that the EU needed to change. That's what lost them my vote.
Leave on the other hand knew that a win would mean huge changes. The warning signs were there the morning after the vote when the most prominent campaigners couldn't distance themselves from the campaign fast enough. Followed by Cameron doing exactly what he'd promised not to do and resigning.
Where we go from here I don't know. The clock is ticking and surely even the most passionate of the leave supporters will concede we can't do this on the fly.
A crazy situation and Cameron and Osborne (who I voted for) have got to take responsibility for this. It's disgraceful no planning was undertaken in advance of the vote (ie what we would want, what the major hurdles/issues would be and how we would try to address these). Typical arrogance of a majority of the political class that the public would fall in line....but they didn't.
People talking about Davis getting impact assessments done are missing the point, what's done is done. It's now about negotiating as good a deal as possible.
Like most economic analysis it's all guesswork anyway. There are so many variables it's bordering on impossible to estimate the impact of leaving the EU...especially before any trade discussions have taken place (or staying in for that matter - ie has anyone produced a study/assessment on what would happen if net migration stayed at £250k-300k for the next 5 to 10 years ? Did anyone produce impact assessments when we agreed treaty after treaty ?
I think you're missing the point that Davis told Parliament they existed when they didn't, or that they didn't when they did, whichever you choose to believe.People talking about Davis getting impact assessments done are missing the point, what's done is done. It's now about negotiating as good a deal as possible.
We didn't when Poland joined.
Maybe we should have put pressure on to extend that. Did we or was it not possible?
And you, the one who feels offended when people mention similarities to Nazis... now insulting people who are trying to politely put their ideas forward. If you know so much about the rise of Nazism, you will know that the Nazis insulted and intimidated people who didn’t agree with them. Earlsdon was playing the victim recently claiming people were insulting people with similar views to him. Once again it is the people on the right throwing insults about.
The person most obsessed with far right extremism and nazis is you.
You remind me of that old politician Harvey Proctor. He was rabidly anti homosexual. Sadly a journalist investigation showed he had a strange nocturnal interest in taking rent boys to his apartment and whipping them. Spanking Harvey was never the same again.
I wonder if we peaked in your cellar what we might find? Pair of jackboots? Silly fake Chaplin moustache. People who are so obsessively anti something are often well caught with their trousers down one day - if you know what I mean.
When is the German car industy going to directly get involved in these negotiations then? I presume the UK is also keep its trump card up its sleeve to strike the killer blow and get whatever it wants?
Nice work in diverting away from those posting far-right material and turning it around onto a moderate, BTW.
The German car industry already is involved as is For due to its Belgium manufacturing operation
What you seem to be missing is that the trade deal will be relative for both sides. So if we end with with tariffs so do the European countries - all studies conclude the impact on jobs will be worse in Europe if it’s not a free trade arrangement. Which would prove once and for all the EU is not interested in it’s members and proves we are correct to get out.
As for Martcov he hates freedom of choice, loathes democracy and is anti civil liberties.
He’s further to the right than Farage.
The person most obsessed with far right extremism and nazis is you.
You remind me of that old politician Harvey Proctor. He was rabidly anti homosexual. Sadly a journalist investigation showed he had a strange nocturnal interest in taking rent boys to his apartment and whipping them. Spanking Harvey was never the same again.
I wonder if we peaked in your cellar what we might find? Pair of jackboots? Silly fake Chaplin moustache. People who are so obsessively anti something are often well caught with their trousers down one day - if you know what I mean.
The German car industry already is involved as is For due to its Belgium manufacturing operation
What you seem to be missing is that the trade deal will be relative for both sides. So if we end with with tariffs so do the European countries - all studies conclude the impact on jobs will be worse in Europe if it’s not a free trade arrangement. Which would prove once and for all the EU is not interested in it’s members and proves we are correct to get out.
As for Martcov he hates freedom of choice, loathes democracy and is anti civil liberties.
He’s further to the right than Farage.
you're missing the point, quite spectacularly, he misled parliament. Whether the assessments would have been accurate or not is irrelevant, he lied about their existence and let his fellow MPs waste time which we pay them for conducting an unnecessary vote.
What's done is done doesn't cut it. He needs sacking.
The German car industry already is involved as is For due to its Belgium manufacturing operation
What you seem to be missing is that the trade deal will be relative for both sides. So if we end with with tariffs so do the European countries - all studies conclude the impact on jobs will be worse in Europe if it’s not a free trade arrangement. Which would prove once and for all the EU is not interested in it’s members and proves we are correct to get out.
As for Martcov he hates freedom of choice, loathes democracy and is anti civil liberties.
He’s further to the right than Farage.
The German car industry already is involved as is For due to its Belgium manufacturing operation
What you seem to be missing is that the trade deal will be relative for both sides. So if we end with with tariffs so do the European countries - all studies conclude the impact on jobs will be worse in Europe if it’s not a free trade arrangement. Which would prove once and for all the EU is not interested in it’s members and proves we are correct to get out.
As for Martcov he hates freedom of choice, loathes democracy and is anti civil liberties.
He’s further to the right than Farage.
The irony of this being that quite a few of these "German Car Companies" wouldn't even exist without the actual Nazi regime, but it was a while back, doesn't seem to count anymore.What on earth are you on? I dared to point out lies and omission of important factors by right wing National Socialist web sites to push their agenda. Yes, I don’t like Nazis or people pushing similar anti democratic agendas. Your dumbfuck logic twists that to therefore I am a secret Nazi and don’t like democracy.
The German car industry will move it’s part producers and target new markets such as Poland.
If it was me, I would see the UK as a declining market at least short term.
The irony of this being that quite a few of these "German Car Companies" wouldn't even exist without the actual Nazi regime, but it was a while back, doesn't seem to count anymore.
Just one of many....In an historical investigation commissioned by the company — the last German auto company to do so, preceded by Volkswagen, Daimler and BMW — found that when Audi was operating under the name Auto Union, it struck a deal with the SS, by which more than 3,700 inmates from Nazi concentration camps were put to work for the company.
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