The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

[lewys33]

Your Nan must be ancient, its been 71 years since WWII ended, there is only something like 8% of people that actually remember the 40's and most of them were children under 12 at the time.

Oh I'm sorry I thought we were all talking shit in this thread??

Exaggeration aside the point stands.

Edit: yes she would have been a child. An immigrant from Ireland herself in fact.

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Your Nan must be ancient, its been 71 years since WWII ended, there is only something like 8% of people that actually remember the 40's and most of them were children under 12 at the time.

tbf, I reckon most of them volunteer where I work!

 

[chiefdave]

In other words they were lying previously in order to influence the result of the Scottish referendum.

Who the EU? I guess you could look at it that way. They said if Scotland left the UK they would not be able to join the EU without going through the usual process. What they are now saying is that Scotland hasn't voted to leave the EU and therefore should not be forced to do so.
Suspect we'll hear a lot more about this in the weeks to come.

 

[stupot07]

But if you were the leader of the SNP, a party that has a long history of wanting independence, what would you do? Your country has voted resoundingly to stay in the EU. The EU are making noises about making an exception to the usual process should Scotland and / or NI wish to join. You could very easily justify running another referendum on that basis.

And what if Scotland then vote leave? Do we have another referendum on the EU? Its not as simple as discounting Scottish votes as there will be many English people who reside in Scotland and voted there.

This referendum and leaving the EU is probably now the end of Great Britain and the United Kingdom. The Scots will vote for independence, and then Northern Ireland and Wales won't be far behind...

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[clint van damme]

Who the EU? I guess you could look at it that way. They said if Scotland left the UK they would not be able to join the EU without going through the usual process. What they are now saying is that Scotland hasn't voted to leave the EU and therefore should not be forced to do so.
Suspect we'll hear a lot more about this in the weeks to come.

the difference being that in the initial referendum Scotland wanted to leave a UK that was part of the EU, now they want to leave one that isn't and join the EU. Brussels bound to change their stance

 

[Deleted member 5849]

This referendum and leaving the EU is probably now the end of Great Britain and the United Kingdom. The Scots will vote for independence, and then Northern Ireland and Wales won't be far behind...

I'm still not convinced Britain will actually leave...

 

[clint van damme]

This referendum and leaving the EU is probably now the end of Great Britain and the United Kingdom. The Scots will vote for independence, and then Northern Ireland and Wales won't be far behind...

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Wales won't, even their independence party doesn't want independence! They just want greater devolved power.

 

[lewys33]

Imagine being able to deny the scots entry?

 

[stupot07]

I'm still not convinced Britain will actually leave...

The more I think about it the more I think there will be a huge U-Turn.

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[clint van damme]

I'm still not convinced Britain will actually leave...

it wouldn't surprise me. It's some team they've got to put together to participate in the Brexit negotiations. I'm not sure any of the names put forward for next Tory leader is up to it.

 

[speedie87]

I'm still not convinced Britain will actually leave...

I'm not convinced by the time we do leave the Eu will still exist as we know it either

 

[stupot07]

Wales won't, even their independence party doesn't want independence! They just want greater devolved power.

You're probably right but if Scotland and N. Ireland go, we're no longer the UK or Great Britain.

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[Moff]

They're changing their tune now. Reports are coming out that they may be prepared to offer a fast track to Scotland and NI if they hold independence referendums as they didn't vote to leave the EU.

I am sure they are hoping that Scotland and NI stay in the EU, they will be short of a few quid when we Exit and will need someone to add a bit of cash to the reserves.

 

[dutchman]

the difference being that in the initial referendum Scotland wanted to leave a UK that was part of the EU, now they want to leave one that isn't and join the EU. Brussels bound to change their stance

But why would an independent Scotland want to join an EU that previously made it perfectly clear that it didn't want an independent Scotland as a new member?

 

[Moff]

You're probably right but if Scotland and N. Ireland go, we're no longer the UK or Great Britain.

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Yes that would be sad, but the world will keep moving on, and it wont lead to Armageddon (I know you weren't suggesting that Stu)

The SNP want independence, they will keep trying for it, and one day they will probably get it. If it doesn't happen re this, it will happen in time for another reason.

 

[clint van damme]

But why would an independent Scotland want to join an EU that previously made it perfectly clear that it didn't want an independent Scotland as a new member?

because previously, by leaving the UK, Scotland was leaving an EU member state. That isn't the case now, (or won't be).

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The SNP want independence, they will keep trying for it, and one day they will probably get it. If it doesn't happen re this, it will happen in time for another reason.

Things change quickly though. Not long since the SNP were nothing in Scotland. Appreciate it's a big If as it stands, but if a Labour Party looked like government material again, and appealed to Scottish values also, we could see a revival.

 

[Moff]

Things change quickly though. Not long since the SNP were nothing in Scotland. Appreciate it's a big If as it stands, but if a Labour Party looked like government material again, and appealed to Scottish values also, we could see a revival.

I admire your optimism

 

[Captain Dart]

Imagine being able to deny the scots entry?

They'll never qualify not with Wee Gordon in charge.

 

[dancers lance]

why would she? She's first minister for Scotland.
Her whole remit is about countries having self determination, why would she get involved in Welsh affairs?

I know, why would she want to get involved in another countries affairs, not happy with having her own version parliament in Scotland she insists on interfering in ours and even (to her glee) being able to vote on matters that only affect the English.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I admire your optimism

Things shift quickly though. SDP went from leading the polls to oblivion in a decade, Liberals vanished.

It tends to boil down to the economy, but it's also been the fact Conservatives didn't speak for Scotland, but nor did Blair's Labour particularly either. So a recession and the Labour Party's general unpopularity creates the right conditions. They're right to capitalise while they have this chance, mind...

 

[CCFC Germany]

Didn't Juncker or someone say before the Scottish referendum that an independent Scotland wouldn't necessarily be granted automatic EU membership and that they'd have to apply like any other nation?

Technically, Britain first has to leave the EU.
If Scotland declares independence before Britain "officially" leaves the EU, Scotland never would have left.

 

[clint van damme]

I know, why would she want to get involved in another countries affairs, not happy with having her own version parliament in Scotland she insists on interfering in ours and even (to her glee) being able to vote on matters that only affect the English.

Of course she does, due to the political relationship in place between the two countries. If Scotland gets independence she wont be able to vote on English only matters any more and I expect she'll be delighted with that.
I'll say one thing for her, after the events of the last few days I'd say she's one of the best politicians on these islands.
She had a plan in place in the event of a leave vote and hasn't hesitated to take advantage of the situation. Contrast that with what's going on with labour and the tories.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

She had a plan in place in the event of a leave vote and hasn't hesitated to take advantage of the situation.

It is immensely frightening that none of those who wanted to leave seem to have a clue what they're going to do now.

 

[Moff]

Things shift quickly though. SDP went from leading the polls to oblivion in a decade, Liberals vanished.

It tends to boil down to the economy, but it's also been the fact Conservatives didn't speak for Scotland, but nor did Blair's Labour particularly either. So a recession and the Labour Party's general unpopularity creates the right conditions. They're right to capitalise while they have this chance, mind...

They seem so entrenched at the moment, and the political climate seems to have changed in Scotland. I never thought I would have seen a referendum on an independent Scotland.

I take on board about the SDP, like you I do remember their rise and fall, and about the Liberals, but that was down to Clegg's appalling stewardship in the Coalition.

I just feel that the SNP are here to stay, and the economy situation, if it gets worse will be blamed on the Brexit further fuelling the SNP's desire to leave the UK. I will be sad if it happens but life moves on.

 

[dancers lance]

It is immensely frightening that none of those who wanted to leave seem to have a clue what they're going to do now.

We can't possibly know what to do next (and I understand that this scares people) until we start to negotiate with Europe and sit at the table with other non EU countries, we are four days in.

 

[Johnnythespider]

You're probably right but if Scotland and N. Ireland go, we're no longer the UK or Great Britain.

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The irony of " let's put the Great back into Britain" I bet her maj is thrilled to bits.

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[Deleted member 5849]

like you I do remember their rise and fall

I'm only old enough to remember their fall

Speaking of which, let's have a tribute to who brought them down again!

 

[chiefdave]

But why would an independent Scotland want to join an EU that previously made it perfectly clear that it didn't want an independent Scotland as a new member?

They didn't say they didn't want them, they said they would have to follow the same procedure as everyone else.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

We can't possibly know what to do next (and I understand that this scares people) until we start to negotiate with Europe and sit at the table with other non EU countries, we are four days in.

It's more the total lack of ideas about what or how they intend to do anything.

It's almost like Johnson was only doing this for play and personal ambition without any foundation of policy... which wouldn't be like him at all.

 

[Johnnythespider]

I'm still not convinced Britain will actually leave...

Same here, I can't find where but I'm sure I heard Boris mention the possibility of negotiating a better deal post Brexit, a couple of weeks before the vote.

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[Moff]

I'm only old enough to remember their fall

Speaking of which, let's have a tribute to who brought them down again!

I was only 10 when the SDP formed!

 

[chiefdave]

I'm still not convinced Britain will actually leave...

I'm increasingly of that opinion. The leave campaign have admitted they have no plan moving forward saying it is the responsibility of the PM. However Cameron isn't going to do it and hasn't, as he promised all throughout the campaign, started the leave process immediately upon a leave result. He's now leaving that for the next person.
People are starting to realise the two big polices of leave were BS. By October when we get a new PM is the mood in the country going to be the same?

 

[Moff]

Well I suppose with Brexit being possibly two plus years away, and given the nature of this thread already, I suppose it will still give everyone something to argue about after CCFC have gone out of business.

 

[Nick]

Can we not have a trial by combat to decide like game of thrones?