The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (15 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

May secures cabinet backing for Brexit plan

 

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[chiefdave]

3yrs behind what? The EU? As far as I know Britain was not one of the 6 countries to beneift initially anyhow. Ireland was...but they still aren't benefitting yet, despite thinking they would be by the end of 2016. Unless I have missed something which is always possible ..not that that would really matter. I was answering the question 'what deals'?
The BAE deal does benefit Britain's economy...it is a British company.

Three years comes from our governments own press release just over a week ago. In a nutshell the EU & China already have an accepted process for the importing of beef from the EU. EU countries can therefore begin trading as soon as they are cleared by the Chinese.

The UK, as we are leaving the EU, will need to put in place its own process prior to commencing trading. That will need to be agreed by the Chinese. According to the governments press release 'Today’s announcement will allow official market access negotiations to begin, a process which typically takes around three years'.

The BAE deal will most likely benefit the UK but the major beneficiary will be BAE Systems Australia, the company which has won the contract which is an Australian subsidiary.

Of course what the celebration of both these deals shows is how far expectations have fallen. Both are deals we could have done as a member of the EU yet are now being held up of examples of a shining future. I was under the impression one of the key benefits of leaving would be the ability to do deals we couldn't do as a member of the EU.

 

[chiefdave]

May secures cabinet backing for Brexit plan

Will obviously have to wait until the white paper is published but the initial details seem to indicate remainers will be the happier with the proposal. Seems to be largely sticking with the Status Quo but with the UK no longer an EU member we'll have very little say.

And of course thats the starting point before negotiations can seriously begin not the finalised deal.

Fingers crossed when the full document is released it offers a better lan to move forward than is currently being indicated.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

He’s saying that the reason EU beef was banned in China was because of the self inflicted through bad practices BSE mad cow disease that struck the U.K. and Ireland god knows how many years ago. Ireland has had a Chinese delegation inspect abattoirs in Ireland and trade has been cleared to commence again with Ireland by China.

It wasn't Mart that said it. Think it was ChiefDave...anyhow. it was a clear statement that we were 3yrs behind due to Brexit. Which is not true

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[SkyblueBazza]

A) it’s two years on and we still don’t have a consensus in the cabinet (forget the rest of the country) as to what brexit actually means.

B) I’ve never passed comment on Germany’s political scene so not sure how you’ve come to that assumption, and it is an assumption.

Did you miss the EU bit?

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[SkyblueBazza]

You are over the top. We are leaving. We leave the EU and therefore could lose our passporting rights for financial services. It is our decision. As you keep pointing out. The financial institutions will have to move because of Brexit not because the EU wants a slice of it.

Well...as I said earlier. Let us see what rules they set to prevent said money-laundering once it is happening in say - Germany, instesd of the UK. Wo der how the final rules will look compared to how they were when we were apparently welcoming such activities

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[SkyblueBazza]

UK .. yes seems to be about that. See what happens today.

Germany: I don't know about healthy debate. I never even made a comment on that. I just said you should wait to see the outcome before you jump in. The rest is your usual BS.

I await your comments on what happened today.
On Germany & the EU you have constantly acknowledged their debating to find a solution to issues...you know...'democratically'.

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[SkyblueBazza]

What are you on about? The have always paid attention to the borders, but the pressure of a devasting wars broke the system temporarily.

Yes of course...a fine excuse. And then they waived the secondary migration rules. But it has because a sore point in Germany. So now they are looking to do something (in words at least) about it

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[SkyblueBazza]

It is our government which is collapsing today.

I can't wait to see your comments later in the thread.

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[SkyblueBazza]

No. It couldn't be could it because Brexit only happened in 2016. But... it can only now start negotiations which will take 3 years ( if successful ). The EU suppliers are further advanced.

Which is exactly what I saiid, so I don't understand your need to comment (other than your being a Billy-big-bollocks)

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[SkyblueBazza]

I am following the news as much as anyone else. That's all. They have not convinced me that they are aware of the consequences, either that or they are not bothered about them as they will probaly benefit personally in some other way.

Being in the EU is the staus quo. That is the position. The UK is leaving. It is up to the UK to have a unified position and say how they see the future relationship. The EU has it's rules and all remaining 27 countries have to abide by them. That's it. Now, do we still have a government?

They don't need to convince you Mart. You do not need to know in the process.

Lol...you are are such a wheeze...'The EU has it's rules and all remaining 27 countries have to abide by them'. Like when do all 27 abide by them?

And yes...we still have a government

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[SkyblueBazza]

Three years comes from our governments own press release just over a week ago. In a nutshell the EU & China already have an accepted process for the importing of beef from the EU. EU countries can therefore begin trading as soon as they are cleared by the Chinese.

The UK, as we are leaving the EU, will need to put in place its own process prior to commencing trading. That will need to be agreed by the Chinese. According to the governments press release 'Today’s announcement will allow official market access negotiations to begin, a process which typically takes around three years'.

The BAE deal will most likely benefit the UK but the major beneficiary will be BAE Systems Australia, the company which has won the contract which is an Australian subsidiary.

Of course what the celebration of both these deals shows is how far expectations have fallen. Both are deals we could have done as a member of the EU yet are now being held up of examples of a shining future. I was under the impression one of the key benefits of leaving would be the ability to do deals we couldn't do as a member of the EU.

But the point is...we may well be 3yrs behind the first EU countries. But we were never going to be one of the first. More like the very last...possibly 15yrs down the line which would equal a net gain of 12yrs! And that 3yrs is certainly not down to Brexit as was claimed!

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[martcov]

But the point is...we may well be 3yrs behind the first EU countries. But we were never going to be one of the first. More like the very last...possibly 15yrs down the line which would equal a net gain of 12yrs! And that 3yrs is certainly not down to Brexit as was claimed!

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It is getting difficult to follow your logic...

 

[martcov]

They don't need to convince you Mart. You do not need to know in the process.

Lol...you are are such a wheeze...'The EU has it's rules and all remaining 27 countries have to abide by them'. Like when do all 27 abide by them?

And yes...we still have a government

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Well they do generally... and they will when making an agreement.. the latest from Chequers is that we will be following EU regulations to a large extent. Leavers won’t be happy and nor will I. It seems to be a compromise where we are out, but not really out, and in a bit, but really out. If you get what I mean.

Was it worth it? We will have no say in shaping Europe in the future and will end up a vassal state of the EU and USA. Stuck in the middle and being largely reliant on trade with both of them with little input.

With an artificial sovereignty.

Will illegal immigration now stop? No.

Will we have a stronger bargaining position? No.

 

[dutchman]

May secures cabinet backing for Brexit plan

I have a feeling that some cabinet ministers' interpretation of what was agreed will differ greatly from other cabinet ministers' interpretation of what was agreed.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Three years comes from our governments own press release just over a week ago. In a nutshell the EU & China already have an accepted process for the importing of beef from the EU. EU countries can therefore begin trading as soon as they are cleared by the Chinese.

The UK, as we are leaving the EU, will need to put in place its own process prior to commencing trading. That will need to be agreed by the Chinese. According to the governments press release 'Today’s announcement will allow official market access negotiations to begin, a process which typically takes around three years'.

The BAE deal will most likely benefit the UK but the major beneficiary will be BAE Systems Australia, the company which has won the contract which is an Australian subsidiary.

Of course what the celebration of both these deals shows is how far expectations have fallen. Both are deals we could have done as a member of the EU yet are now being held up of examples of a shining future. I was under the impression one of the key benefits of leaving would be the ability to do deals we couldn't do as a member of the EU.

Well...now go analyze some EU deals from before Brexit & see how well Britain fared in them.

You are just NEVER going to be satisfied. You have firmly aligned yourself to the doom merchants Mart & Tony.

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[SkyblueBazza]

It is getting difficult to follow your logic...

We have moved ourselves forward. Earlier than the EU would have.

I cannot explain your inability to understand what has already been said. Maybe your realisation that you agreed with me the other day has thrown you a little bit

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[SkyblueBazza]

I have a feeling that some cabinet ministers' interpretation of what was agreed will differ greatly from other cabinet ministers' interpretation of what was agreed.

I expect there will most certainly be a degree of that.

Mart/Tony/SickBoy especially will love that. Despite the fact that this is precisely what happens with many EU agreements & why they rarely become properly implemented.

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[Astute]

Haha... sportsmans bet: May goes first.

Sportsmans bet?

Have a lot of faith don't you.

 

[Astute]

There is a lot of that in the world... and no, I think investigations should be taken out by independent special councils as in the USA.

But he has always stopped them. And always will.

 

[Astute]

Will obviously have to wait until the white paper is published but the initial details seem to indicate remainers will be the happier with the proposal. Seems to be largely sticking with the Status Quo but with the UK no longer an EU member we'll have very little say.

And of course thats the starting point before negotiations can seriously begin not the finalised deal.

Fingers crossed when the full document is released it offers a better lan to move forward than is currently being indicated.

Barnier has said no before even finding out what it said. He has said there is only a deal to be made if we keep our borders open and stay with present trade agreements which we would have to pay for. So in other words just as we are now.

 

[martcov]

Sportsmans bet?

Have a lot of faith don't you.

I don’t know you so well and I don’t need to run after you if I win... ;-)

 

[martcov]

Barnier has said no before even finding out what it said. He has said there is only a deal to be made if we keep our borders open and stay with present trade agreements which we would have to pay for. So in other words just as we are now.

BINO or bust.

 

[martcov]

I expect there will most certainly be a degree of that.

Mart/Tony/SickBoy especially will love that. Despite the fact that this is precisely what happens with many EU agreements & why they rarely become properly implemented.

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Examples?

 

[martcov]

We have moved ourselves forward. Earlier than the EU would have.

I cannot explain your inability to understand what has already been said. Maybe your realisation that you agreed with me the other day has thrown you a little bit

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You are just saying things.

 

[martcov]

Well...now go analyze some EU deals from before Brexit & see how well Britain fared in them.

You are just NEVER going to be satisfied. You have firmly aligned yourself to the doom merchants Mart & Tony.

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You like history:

I founded Ukip. It’s a national joke now and should disappear | Alan Sked

 

[Astute]

You like history:

I founded Ukip. It’s a national joke now and should disappear | Alan Sked

And?

UKIP is finished. So is Farage. He is only mentioned by people like yourself.

 

[skybluetony176]

I have a feeling that some cabinet ministers' interpretation of what was agreed will differ greatly from other cabinet ministers' interpretation of what was agreed.

For sure.

 

[skybluetony176]

Well...now go analyze some EU deals from before Brexit & see how well Britain fared in them.

You are just NEVER going to be satisfied. You have firmly aligned yourself to the doom merchants Mart & Tony.

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The second paragraph is very interestinge. The other day I linked a very pro brexit article regarding what we will do post brexit with regards to fishing policies after. I approve of the post brexit plans on this subject, I welcome them whole heartedly, I even described it as a true argument for leave in my post. So the question now is who noticed it? One poster and one poster only. Chief Dave, my fellow doom merchant. Who was also positive about it and echoed my own comment and condemnation of the current commons fisheries policy. So the so called non doom merchants what happened to them when an actual real and tangible good news brexit story comes along? Astute was tied up as usual with his what about Junker policy, Grendull was busy explaining that he always answers questions as a way to not answer a question and who knows about the others.

Thing is I’m perfectly happy not only to acknowledge the good news stories but also debate them but the truth is there isn’t that many out there and even when there is it’s only the apparent doom merchants who want to highlight and discuss them on here. We could have had pages of discussion on the benefits of leaving the common fisheries policy but the truth is no one wanted to.

 

[Astute]

The second paragraph is very interestinge. The other day I linked a very pro brexit article regarding what we will do post brexit with regards to fishing policies after. I approve of the post brexit plans on this subject, I welcome them whole heartedly, I even described it as a true argument for leave in my post. So the question now is who noticed it? One poster and one poster only. Chief Dave, my fellow doom merchant. Who was also positive about it and echoed my own comment and condemnation of the current commons fisheries policy. So the so called non doom merchants what happened to them when an actual real and tangible good news brexit story comes along? Astute was tied up as usual with his what about Junker policy, Grendull was busy explaining that he always answers questions as a way to not answer a question and who knows about the others.

Thing is I’m perfectly happy not only to acknowledge the good news stories but also debate them but the truth is there isn’t that many out there and even when there is it’s only the apparent doom merchants who want to highlight and discuss them on here. We could have had pages of discussion on the benefits of leaving the common fisheries policy but the truth is no one wanted to.

It wasn't pro Brexit. It didn't show what the fishermen want. It showed what the EU want for their fishermen.

 

[skybluetony176]

It wasn't pro Brexit. It didn't show what the fishermen want. It showed what the EU want for their fishermen.

You didn’t read it did you? If you had have you would have known that the government has committed to the end of the practice of discarding. Something fishermen have to do under the common fisheries policy of the EU to meet EU quotas on the relegation size of fish that they are allowed to land and the numbers of each type of fish that they are allowed to land, they’re basically in a situation where they are discarding dead but perfectly edible fish and staying out at sea longer to catch the fish that they are allowed to land all the time discarding more dead but perfectly edible fish. The common fisheries policy is a genuine argument to leave the EU and an argument to leave the EU. Not only have you missed it you’ve also failed to grasp the benefit of leaving the EU to get away from it.

 

[Astute]

You didn’t read it did you? If you had have you would have known that the government has committed to the end of the practice of discarding. Something fishermen have to do under the common fisheries policy of the EU to meet EU quotas on the relegation size of fish that they are allowed to land and the numbers of each type of fish that they are allowed to land, they’re basically in a situation where they are discarding perfectly edible fish and staying out at sea longer to catch the fish that they are allowed to land all the time discarding more perfectly edible fish. The common fisheries policy is a genuine argument to leave the EU and an argument to leave the EU. Not only have you missed it you’ve also failed to grasp the benefit of leaving the EU to get away from it.

That bit wasn't pro Brexit. That is common sense. Unless you are saying anything that is common sense is pro Brexit.

 

[skybluetony176]

That bit wasn't pro Brexit. That is common sense. Unless you are saying anything that is common sense is pro Brexit.

We can only take this common sense approach because of Brexit. That’s the very definition of pro brexit and by the way being anti EU at the same time. You’ve clearly got yourself in a mindset where you’re just going to argue the opposite of what I say on this thread. If I’m ever persuaded to turn pro brexit I’m fully expecting you to turn anti brexit. Can’t win.

 

[Grendel]

Brussels will not allow the fisheries amendment

 

[skybluetony176]

Brussels will not allow the fisheries amendment

Of their own policy or ours?