The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (288 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

You can bet your bottom dollar that Bannon knows the value of information from social media that you have given these companies. He says that is the price for using the free services. I watched him say that.

The other week I was at a conference where we were told that FB knows most people better than that persons spouse and can either determine if someone is bipolar based on their activity.

 

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[Grendel]

He is backed by wealthy hedge funds and highly regarded for his use of social media - he grounded the firms Trump used.

Don’t you like wealthy hedge funds?

 

[Grendel]

The other week I was at a conference where we were told that FB knows most people better than that persons spouse and can either determine if someone is bipolar based on their activity.

Which has nothing to do with anything really

 

[Sick Boy]

I agree - what age group is influenced the most?

In terms of political advertising?

 

[Sick Boy]

Which has nothing to do with anything really

It was a side point, that was addressed to Mart or anyone else interested.

 

[Westendlad]

We can but hope. You can see how the country has become since the Brexit vote. The racists and xenophobes are certainly more vocal and visual than they used to be. Not helped by Farage, etc. We have the Free Tommy Robinson lot too. Britain is a scarier and less tolerant place than it was before June 2016.

Yawwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I am merely stating my opinion on Brexit and pointing out where I think the UK has made a mistake.

Where is my rant on Tommy Robinson? I said he has admitted guilt and that was the end of it for me.

Stupid comments on Germany and Germans come under the same category as e.g. stupid comments about Muslims and Islam. And they are insulting when you class all Germans as being in the 4. Reich or a German Superstate. Moreover that terminology shows how ignorant of history or the workings of the EU that you and your ilk are. As has recently been shown by a certain well known poster who embarrassed himself recently.

I am surprised if indeed Brexit is going as you wanted. Each to his own.

According to polls the vast majority, leavers and remainers, are not happy with government‘s handling of Brexit. You seem to be in the minority, not me.

You really have lost the plot.

You made that point about your view on Brexit over 2 years ago. There really is no need to restate it hourly.

Tommy Robinson: Read your own post & you will see that YOU make some reference to MY views on him which others disagree with apparently.

Some will disagree with my comments on things...in particular Germans (all general rather than specific I think)/Germany but not necessarily call them stupid...others do agree. But you will accuse all of us of being right-wing extremists for that. Maybe we are more accurate...only time will tell...about the tempered down German super-state than you will currently accept. We may not even live to witness it ourselves. But I would be surprised if it isn't an ambition in the corridors of power in Germany.

You call my/anyone's different take on things as ignorant or stupid or such-like. Maybe that is some sort of defence mechanism on your part? Or maybe you are just supercilious? The workings of the EU that YOU arrogantly proclaim to understand whilst lots - even journailists supposedly well versed in mechanisms of the EU express those workings with difficulty. Like the service industry...many layers exist to serve as a buffer to the guy who doesn't want to hear about the little people & their hardships or issues. They just want to rake in the cash. You appear to believe that doesn't happen in the EU...only the UK.

Personally, I didn't want Brexit...but it is happening. Until finalised the Brexit I visualised at the start - I cannot compare. But yes I agree that it is unlikely to what I would prefer having accepted it is going to happen.

I never said I was happy, I have always maintained that apparent lack of progress was merely loads of pheripheral stiff being worked on quietly elsewher in preparing for the now inevitable. I was in the minority in voting to remain...I don't worry about that. I have been in a minority many times before & fared well, with good outcomes.

So, I reckon you would benefit from getting over the vote to leave, the fact that things will change but mostly...get over yourself!


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[SkyblueBazza]

Great level of debate there.

Just because doesn't agree with Brexit? How's being negative about Brexit being negative about the UK and those who value it? Or do you mean your own view of what the UK should be? There's plenty of people in Britain who agree with Mart's viewpoint.

Just because someone leaves a country does not mean that their citizenship is void, BTW.

The only debate with Mart is where you say things like 'mmmnnn...yes...you're absolutely right...I entirely agree'

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[SkyblueBazza]

Presumably you mean in real life as opposed to on here?

I would certainly argue that there is hardly any on here who buy into thier kind of views nor agree with their approach. Struth even Mart is tame by comparison...he just regurgitates the same tedious stuff over & over

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[SkyblueBazza]

Bollocks. I have said all the time that we should stay in the largest trading block in the world as opposed to following the advice of dodgy politicians and millionaires. What is there to despise about that? The EU has more benefits than disadvantages... as we are about to find out. The leavers are the ones wanting us to leave a trading bloc and go it alone in the belief good things will happen. That is faith based like a religion.

And Reich means Empire as in the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire or Kaiserreich, the Empire created by Bismarck for Kaiser Wilhem. But, you know that.... even if you get the empires mixed up.

There you go again! There are no dodhy politicians in the EU? You know...that EU that you eagerly gobble up every single line they feed you?

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[SkyblueBazza]

If anything the referendum has turned largely apathetic remain voters into some of the most pro-EU citizens in the union. Likewise the Leave campaign has done the opposite on the other side. Pre 2016 for the majority the EU would have been low down their list of priorities for the country.

To claim people voted remain due to fear is absurd.

I think he means the fear of change...the fear of the consequences portrayed by the incompetent people leading the remain campaign

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[Astute]

To claim people voted remain due to fear is absurd.

Is it though?

Project remain was based fully on fear. Thousands of gravestones. House prices crashing. Share prices crashing. Unemployment shooting up. And that was if we voted leave.

So nobody listened to a word now.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It was an information leaflet outlining government policy and published before the campaign „purdah“.

Anyway.... where are the benefits we can expect on day 1? Convince me how good Brexit is.

People doubted the earth was round, man could fly, robots, Coventry would win the FA Cup...some having shown up the doubters have gone on to provide massive spin-off benefits. Others haven't...as far as Brexit is concerned...you are firmly in the same camp as 'the earth is flat' crowd. Some of us continue to be more open-minded

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[SkyblueBazza]

Are you saying the £9 million was a neutral appraisal. Good. Can we start a separate thread and go through every point? Can we do that and I’ll argue non neutrality and let’s see who comes out in top?

So 1 day is more important than the next three of four generations. Why are you diverting?

Shall I share done German media articles regarding Steve Bannon that sound word for word what you - someone not influenced by the media - says?

You are struggling.

He is smugly focusing on day 1 because nobody can answer the question. We don't know what the final arrangement will look like...only Mart does - or at least thinks he does

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[SkyblueBazza]

No, or at least it is impossible to gauge as I read various sources and don’t sit and watch conspiracy theories in a dark corner of my house.

No - some you vociferously fight & others you fall for hook line & sinker it seems

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[SkyblueBazza]

Probably chaos, but if no great benefits are in sight, what is the point of the debacle? Rees Mogg thinks we will be enjoying the benefits in 50 years. I am 63 and my daughter is 18. How do you sell Brexit to people like us?

Ahhhh...so your viewpoint IS entirely selfish. Just like the apparently elder generation of 'Little Britain' leave voters you often like to refer to?

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[SkyblueBazza]

It was a side point, that was addressed to Mart or anyone else interested.

But is a good indicator as to why I suspect people will become much less social online given time. It is a form of BIG BROTHER...just waiting for the right person to gain power. The kind of stuff that brings in totalitarianism & dictators. Totally unhealthy for most of us imo

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[SkyblueBazza]

We can but hope. You can see how the country has become since the Brexit vote. The racists and xenophobes are certainly more vocal and visual than they used to be. Not helped by Farage, etc. We have the Free Tommy Robinson lot too. Britain is a scarier and less tolerant place than it was before June 2016.

It is fear from media coverage really though like so many things imo. The vast majority think they are (putting it mildly) buffoons & the chances of them ever gaining a firm foothold in the UK are pretty remote without civil war stemming from ir provoked by some other extreme organisation imo

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[martcov]

You really have lost the plot.

You made that point about your view on Brexit over 2 years ago. There really is no need to restate it hourly.

Tommy Robinson: Read your own post & you will see that YOU make some reference to MY views on him which others disagree with apparently.

Some will disagree with my comments on things...in particular Germans (all general rather than specific I think)/Germany but not necessarily call them stupid...others do agree. But you will accuse all of us of being right-wing extremists for that. Maybe we are more accurate...only time will tell...about the tempered down German super-state than you will currently accept. We may not even live to witness it ourselves. But I would be surprised if it isn't an ambition in the corridors of power in Germany.

You call my/anyone's different take on things as ignorant or stupid or such-like. Maybe that is some sort of defence mechanism on your part? Or maybe you are just supercilious? The workings of the EU that YOU arrogantly proclaim to understand whilst lots - even journailists supposedly well versed in mechanisms of the EU express those workings with difficulty. Like the service industry...many layers exist to serve as a buffer to the guy who doesn't want to hear about the little people & their hardships or issues. They just want to rake in the cash. You appear to believe that doesn't happen in the EU...only the UK.

Personally, I didn't want Brexit...but it is happening. Until finalised the Brexit I visualised at the start - I cannot compare. But yes I agree that it is unlikely to what I would prefer having accepted it is going to happen.

I never said I was happy, I have always maintained that apparent lack of progress was merely loads of pheripheral stiff being worked on quietly elsewher in preparing for the now inevitable. I was in the minority in voting to remain...I don't worry about that. I have been in a minority many times before & fared well, with good outcomes.

So, I reckon you would benefit from getting over the vote to leave, the fact that things will change but mostly...get over yourself!


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I haven’t lost the plot. The plot is continually evolving as is the discussion. Something new comes every day .

Off you go again about the corridors of power in Germany. You wouldn’t be surprised... that is because you wish that you are right. No one knows whether some Germans want to take over Europe, but none in power have shown that and you just throw it in to the discussion. Why? You seem to have a complex about Germany and Germans.

Yes, you can say that German politicians are acting in Germany‘s interests, but taking over Europe is not in Germany‘s interest ( been there done that ). They also act in European interests. That is the way it should be.

Just because you have been on the losing side before and it worked out fine, is no guarantee that that will always happen. Strange logic.

What are you on about? I should get over the vote to leave? I can criticise it as much as I want. I think it is stupid and is being badly handled.

You seem to be more optimistic. So?

 

[martcov]

Ahhhh...so your viewpoint IS entirely selfish. Just like the apparently elder generation of 'Little Britain' leave voters you often like to refer to?

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Fxxk me! I asked a question which covered the ages between 18 and 63. That is a huge section of the population. If Rees Mogg is right, most of us will not see much from the benefits in 50 years time. I said „people“ like us. The reason being that I and my daughter probably won’t be working in Brexit Britain- so not selfish at all. The question was meant to explain the benefits for the people e.g. between 18 and 63. I hardly think that government policy is geared to me and my daughter. Plus, on a „selfish“ note, Brexit takes away my automatic right to live and work in the country where I live ( plus the same goes for the other 1,5 million EU Brits ). You say I have disowned the UK by taking German citizenship- I now have both, so you are wrong as usual. If anything, the UK has disowned me ( and 1,5 million others ) up until now. We are bargaining chips.

I have not referred to the older generation as „little englanders“.

 

[martcov]

But is a good indicator as to why I suspect people will become much less social online given time. It is a form of BIG BROTHER...just waiting for the right person to gain power. The kind of stuff that brings in totalitarianism & dictators. Totally unhealthy for most of us imo

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I actually agree, almost. The person will use the social media information to get power. We don’t have to wait for him to be in power before he uses it.

 

[martcov]

Don’t you like wealthy hedge funds?

Love em...;-) depends on what they do.... I suspect most are ruthless and only acting in their interests ( cue Soros )

 

[Astute]

Fxxk me! I asked a question which covered the ages between 18 and 63. That is a huge section of the population. If Rees Mogg is right, most of us will not see much from the benefits in 50 years time. I said „people“ like us. The reason being that I and my daughter probably won’t be working in Brexit Britain- so not selfish at all. The question was meant to explain the benefits for the people e.g. between 18 and 63. I hardly think that government policy is geared to me and my daughter. Plus, on a „selfish“ note, Brexit takes away my automatic right to live and work in the country where I live ( plus the same goes for the other 1,5 million EU Brits ). You say I have disowned the UK by taking German citizenship- I now have both, so you are wrong as usual. If anything, the UK has disowned me ( and 1,5 million others ) up until now. We are bargaining chips.

I have not referred to the older generation as „little englanders“.

Try and be truthful for once Mart.

You and your daughter most probably had no interest in working in the UK before the Brexit vote. You have lived in Germany most of your life. So what change has the Brexit vote made?

The Brexit vote has not meant that you have lost your right to live in Germany. The UK has said from the start that we would like to have an agreement that people could continue to live where they are now. It is the EU that has refused to come to the agreement now. Yet you stick up for them whatever they do or say. This is one of the reasons I say they don't care about the citizens of the EU. They only care about the trough they feed from.

 

[martcov]

Try and be truthful for once Mart.

You and your daughter most probably had no interest in working in the UK before the Brexit vote. You have lived in Germany most of your life. So what change has the Brexit vote made?

The Brexit vote has not meant that you have lost your right to live in Germany. The UK has said from the start that we would like to have an agreement that people could continue to live where they are now. It is the EU that has refused to come to the agreement now. Yet you stick up for them whatever they do or say. This is one of the reasons I say they don't care about the citizens of the EU. They only care about the trough they feed from.

I used our ages as an example and said „people of our age“. I never said that I have the intention of working in the UK. Just cheap holidays when the pound collapses. That could be a benefit for me from Brexit.

At the moment, as it stands, I would lose my rights. It may change. It may end up both sides going off in a huff. Who knows?

I have got my citizenship to be on the safe side.

It is not the EU who is leaving. They can hardly be to blame for Brexit problems. I blame the people who led the leave campaign and those papers who wound people up against the EU.

Where are the Brexit benefits? When do they arrive? What are they?

Trump has said, no tariffs, no tariff restrictions and no non Auto subsidies. Those are the three USA principles. He wants to do a deal with the EU on that basis, starting from now. Will be interesting to see whether the UK or EU gets the best deal and when.

The Australians are working on a deal with the EU and want to complete that before starting on the UK trade deal. Will also be interesting.

Canada and Japan have now got deals with the EU. The UK now has to better those deals to prove that Brexit was a good idea.

 

[Sick Boy]

Is it though?

Project remain was based fully on fear. Thousands of gravestones. House prices crashing. Share prices crashing. Unemployment shooting up. And that was if we voted leave.

So nobody listened to a word now.

Following on from that line of posts...

Do you genuinely believe that hardly anyone who voted remain was and is still actually pro EU and it was all votes based on fear?

No mention of Turkey being on the verge of joining the EU with millions of Turks on their way and Syria being highlighted just to increase the levels of fear?

That's a surprise.

 

[Sick Boy]

But is a good indicator as to why I suspect people will become much less social online given time. It is a form of BIG BROTHER...just waiting for the right person to gain power. The kind of stuff that brings in totalitarianism & dictators. Totally unhealthy for most of us imo

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I fully agree that it's majorly unhealthy and some of the Black Mirror episodes are not far off where it could go.

I disagree people will use it less though, there was a decrease in people using FB after the recent CA scandal but it's increasing again and not a significant decrease in the first place anyway.

 

[Sick Boy]

I think he means the fear of change...the fear of the consequences portrayed by the incompetent people leading the remain campaign

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And those now leading Brexit and the ministers and ex ministers who were so bolshy at the time of the campaign were competent, I suppose?

 

[skybluetony176]

I see the EU and US are agreeing a new tariff free on everything except cars trade deal. Why are we leaving again?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I see the EU and US are agreeing a new tariff free on everything except cars trade deal. Why are we leaving again?

Really? Ha! I see them agreeing to maybe hold some talks towards it in future... maybe....hardly the same thing is it?

Meanwhile, 25% tariffs remain on Steel & Aluminium & associated products......

I see Juncker agreeing in principle (on behalf of 28 allegedly sovereign states) to spend billions on LNG & soy beans........yep, Trump has managed to sell Juncker some magic beans. LOL

Trump will now probably pat himself on the back, go home & then tweet a correction to his mis-speaking & back-track on it all anyhow.

As for the question "why are we leaving again".......well, I'd suggest having 2 cunts like them negotiating trade deals on our behalf is a good place to start....wouldn't you?

 

[clint van damme]

As for the question "why are we leaving again".......well, I'd suggest having 2 cunts like them negotiating trade deals on our behalf is a good place to start....wouldn't you?

and leave it to Liam Fox? No thanks.

Have tried staying off this thread for a while because it was going round in circles but to go back to the very start, the reason I voted remain wasn't because of any confidence I had in the institutions of the EU rather I was absolutely convinced the tories would make a raging arse of things. I seen nothing to change my opinion but that isn't an endorsement of the EU.

 

[skybluetony176]

Really? Ha! I see them agreeing to maybe hold some talks towards it in future... maybe....hardly the same thing is it?

Meanwhile, 25% tariffs remain on Steel & Aluminium & associated products......

I see Juncker agreeing in principle (on behalf of 28 allegedly sovereign states) to spend billions on LNG & soy beans........yep, Trump has managed to sell Juncker some magic beans. LOL

Trump will now probably pat himself on the back, go home & then tweet a correction to his mis-speaking & back-track on it all anyhow.

As for the question "why are we leaving again".......well, I'd suggest having 2 cunts like them negotiating trade deals on our behalf is a good place to start....wouldn't you?

Two cunts we’ll still be negotiating with when we leave so no place to start whatsoever, given that nothing is going to change there.

Fact is one of the major reasons we left was apparently because the EU was a protectionist society who wouldn’t do free trade deals outside of the EU block. Leaving would free us to do free trade deals with the US, India, Australia etc etc. Well the EU is going to have a free trade deal with the US. Will ours match, be better or be worse? Remembering that Trump is a c**t of course as you so eloquently put it. India are looking forward to strengthening trade ties with the EU after we leave according to the India chamber of commerce to the EU as the stumbling block has always been the U.K. vetoing any new trade deal with the EU as they’ve always included an easing of immigration controls into the EU from India. Something India has also already said that the U.K. will have to accept as part of any free trade deal post brexit. Australia? The EU is currently negotiating a new bilateral trade agreement with Australia. Then there’s Canada who has negotiated access to the common market so another free trade agreement. Japan, the EU and Japan has also just signed a bilateral trade agreement that means virtually free trade, also widely reported that Japan has no hunger to sign an equal deal with the U.K. post brexit.

The trade argument was about the only real and tangible argument for leaving the EU wholesale. Two years later that argument no longer stacks up.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Is it though?

Project remain was based fully on fear. Thousands of gravestones. House prices crashing. Share prices crashing. Unemployment shooting up. And that was if we voted leave.

So nobody listened to a word now.

Farage put up billboards of immigrants as a consequence of voting Remain. Nobody covered themselves in glory in the referendum, least of all Cameron spending millions of taxpayer pounds trying to persuade people to vote for his side.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I haven’t lost the plot. The plot is continually evolving as is the discussion. Something new comes every day .

Off you go again about the corridors of power in Germany. You wouldn’t be surprised... that is because you wish that you are right. No one knows whether some Germans want to take over Europe, but none in power have shown that and you just throw it in to the discussion. Why? You seem to have a complex about Germany and Germans.

Yes, you can say that German politicians are acting in Germany‘s interests, but taking over Europe is not in Germany‘s interest ( been there done that ). They also act in European interests. That is the way it should be.

Just because you have been on the losing side before and it worked out fine, is no guarantee that that will always happen. Strange logic.

What are you on about? I should get over the vote to leave? I can criticise it as much as I want. I think it is stupid and is being badly handled.

You seem to be more optimistic. So?

The debate in the corridors of power in Germany is how to spend the massive surplus they have achieved. The debate here is about how big a clusterfuck Theresa May will make of Brexit. Know where I'd rather be...

 

[Captain Dart]

The debate in the corridors of power in Germany is how to spend the massive surplus they have achieved. The debate here is about how big a clusterfuck Theresa May will make of Brexit. Know where I'd rather be...

Spain?

 

[skybluetony176]

Farage put up billboards of immigrants as a consequence of voting Remain. Nobody covered themselves in glory in the referendum, least of all Cameron spending millions of taxpayer pounds trying to persuade people to vote for his side.

Didn’t Ferage also quote a number for apparent Romanians queuing up to come to the U.K. the moment that they were allowed and it turned out that the number he quoted was higher than the population of Romania? Maybe he confused the Romanian empire with the Holy Romanian Empire. Easy done so I’m led to believe