So what did I say?
Yes. Nothing like you are making out. So honest of you.
Show where I have been dishonest. We all know that you are. You make accusations and then ignore answers that prove you wrong.
You make out that those in charge of the EU breaking the rules is trivial.
They are losing all trust. That isn't trivial.
Most if not all of the countries in the EU have drifted to the right. Nothing to be proud of.Yes, we have drifted further to the right.
The EU does as it’s members agree to. Juncker bent the rules as far as it is possible to go without breaking them, according to the enquiry. He broke the spirit of the law and they will not let it happen again. So, apart from people being angry, uproar and people ranting, there is nothing that can be legally done about it.
The EU will not break up because of that, but it’s image has been damaged. And that is not me defending Juncker, but that is what happened. Juncker will retire 2021. The EU will continue.
Most if not all of the countries in the EU have drifted to the right. Nothing to be proud of.
The top of the EU being bent is trivial compared to what?I said trivial in comparison. As you well know, but you left out the comparison bit. Showing your exemplary honesty again. They have lost some trust as Juncker has proved you can get around the system if you know the rules. The plus, that is to be gained, is that people who never used to bother about the EU are now getting interested. I sincerely hope that people get out and vote at the next European elections. The more European citizens that take part, the better for Europe and the EU. The extremists do better proportionally when the turnout is low. I would like to see the younger generation getting into power through more seats in the EU parliament.
The top of the EU being bent is trivial compared to what?
If anything it gives another reason towards the balance on if to leave or not.
You won't get the lightbulb or vacuum cleaner argument.
It was a point being made about rules just not about exporting and importing as was said by Mart.
And a lot of this energy saving to save the planet is a joke. What is the cost to the environment on building an electric car with batteries? How many years does it take to make up for the pollutants from a car already built that it will replace? Or one with a new efficient engine? And that is without where the electric is produced.
Yes wind farms are good. But how much power and pollution is made while producing them?
Pollution on a disastrous scale - Environmental Cost of Wind Turbine Manufacturing
But a pat on the back for the headlines I suppose. Green energy after all.......
Well I think I can confidently assure you I know that Astute, Grendel & I have all expressed positives of being in the EU, concerns about remaining, concerns about leaving & acknowledgement that leaving isn't going to be any short-term joy-ride.The only poster I've seen do that is Fernando. Both sides have pretty entrenched views and are probably guilty of generalisations.
Also, people happily visit the US & wax lyrical about how lovely the food is & how much of it there is & how cheap it is etc.Our standards are better than most EU countries. So why would they reduce after Brexit? Prices have a minimum price fix. Imports get taxed to take them over this. We import a lot of our food.
The same goes for fish from British waters? What do you mean by this?
Also, people happily visit the US & wax lyrical about how lovely the food is & how much of it there is & how cheap it is etc.
Are people keeing over in the US as a result of these maybe different, rather than lower, standards?
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Well I think I can confidently assure you I know that Astute, Grendel & I have all expressed positives of being in the EU, concerns about remaining, concerns about leaving & acknowledgement that leaving isn't going to be any short-term joy-ride.
I voted remain, I accepted the vote to leave, accept we are leaving, look for positives. Mart virtually always & one or two others (including yourself) at times have actually pushed me toward sympathy with leaver voters/campaign
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Europe’s attempts to spark an electric vehicle revolutionWhat’s electric cars got to do with the EU? It’s something that’s happening worldwide. Are we going to have a referendum on leaving the world?
Well I think I can confidently assure you I know that Astute, Grendel & I have all expressed positives of being in the EU, concerns about remaining, concerns about leaving & acknowledgement that leaving isn't going to be any short-term joy-ride.
I voted remain, I accepted the vote to leave, accept we are leaving, look for positives. Mart virtually always & one or two others (including yourself) at times have actually pushed me toward sympathy with leaver voters/campaign
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Why should we worry about EU elections when they do what they like and promote who they like even if that person shouldn't get anywhere near the position they are given?
All EU elections do is give undesirables like Farage a stage to come out with his bile.
Europe’s attempts to spark an electric vehicle revolution
Diesel is ‘finished’ in Europe amid push for electric cars, EU regulator says | The Star
Is this what you meant? Or what you didn't know?
Well said...the whole point is that there would be positives & negatives of remaining & of leavingThe first point is full of 'alternative facts'. Posts on here have also pushed me towards being less sympathetic to leave, especially the nonsense about it being a dictatorship and tax-paying migrants contributing to the woes of the country.
Well said...the whole point is that there would be positives & negatives of remaining & of leaving
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However he has described himself as much a proud European as a proud Britain. I doubt a leave vote was ever s consideration.
I'm actually equally proud to be a British, European and Irish citizen, thanks.
Leave was never an option for me either as the anti-immigration rhetoric put me off and I believe remain is in the country's best interests long-term, as do many people.
You can't tell me "oh come off it" then make a deliberately hyperbolic statement implying that the only reason the armed forces would be called in is because the government is readying for civil unrest? that statement has no basis in fact, what evidence do you have that would bring you to such a conclusion?Oh come off it. The government are worried about serious civil unrest. It's not because a public service is on strike. I voted leave but the way scumbags in this government have hijacked the vote makes me wish I hadn't. That's even despite the fact that I still believe in the principle of leaving the EU.
Same here,
What's the reason then?You can't tell me "oh come off it" then make a deliberately hyperbolic statement implying that the only reason the armed forces would be called in is because the government is readying for civil unrest? that statement has no basis in fact, what evidence do you have that would bring you to such a conclusion?
I never offered one, however, I could propose many that come before some civil, dystopian death match.What's the reason then?
Haha you? proud to be British? You're fooling no one Germart.
Why chat bollocks just to try and make me look wrong?You didn’t read past the headlines did you? You’ll say you did but you clearly didn’t because if you did you would have read that these measures are being brought up because Europe is behind the rest of the world and that’s contrary to the point you’re trying to make. Even though it wasn’t the point I was arguing against. The point I was arguing about was about was the part of my OP that you chose to completely ignore.
This is unbelievable. Over 24 hours on this thread without a single post.
Is it anything to do with the news which contradicts most of what remainers have been saying? Or is it Barnier softening his position and saying that it isn't him that doesn't want a no deal and never has.
And strangely enough he had also said that a free trade agreement and joint security was the most he could offer. And that he will rewrite the wording of what the EU has been saying. Is this the breakthrough that many on here didn't want to see?
UK's Brexit proposals threaten future of EU, says Barnier
As some of us have been saying yes it does put the EU at risk as well as the UK if nothing is sorted. This also seems to be bad news for the catastrophe that some have been pedalling.
Is there now any chance that we could be on the same page and talk about what is the best that could come from this instead of making out that we know and also know it will be bad news whatever?
A bit of good news at last.
Now let's get an agreement where people who have emigrated are given 100% rights to where they are now living? It is the least they deserve.
Can't disagree with you here. We will still need the right skills to come here. But we haven't got the infrastructure for those already here. And we will never catch up until we put plans in place and keep to them.Agree with the last bit but would like to see those in the EU given freedom of movement across Europe and those EU citizens in the UK the right to FoM into the UK from life.
Both of the above at the end of the transition period though.
Also look at the possibility of UK nationals being able to become associate EU citizens if they so wish, and possibly vice versa. It'd be interesting to see if only 48% would take this option upa caveat for the above would be needing to have been offered a job to go and live there to make it more realistic
Can't disagree with you here. We will still need the right skills to come here. But we haven't got the infrastructure for those already here. And we will never catch up until we put plans in place and keep to them.
Immigration shouldn't be down to the colour of someone's passport or skin. But what else should be allowed is a legally built up healthy bank balance. We need to keep tourism alive as many depend on it. And I don't want anyone to suffer who depends on tourism just because a brexiteer moans that it could be a way of sneaking in when they don't meet the criteria.
There is a long way to go. But finally we look to be going in the right direction.
The bank balance is for tourists. And not just for those coming here.Disagree on the bank balance as it makes it available to certain people only. If someone has a job offer here then that's fair game to come here as long as it's enough to support them. Levels of immigration are unlikely to fall even after Brexit, the country will still require skilled and unskilled workers.
Haha you? proud to be British? You're fooling no one Germart.
Oh my God, he's 12.
The bank balance is for tourists. And not just for those coming here.
If we keep it for just those who have a job how do we distinguish between those travelling which will be against rules to those who are going to spend money unless a visa is needed?
Or are we going to keep it to time limits? If that is the case I could have 50k to blow on a tour around the EU. But I could only do it for a certain amount of time.
They need to crack some heads together and decide what they want. I am planning to spend many years touring Europe. And I won't be skint before I leave. But if I am limited to say 180 days I will look at further afield.
It isn't about being able to afford a property. It is about being self sufficient. Medical healthcare. Spending money where I want that benefits people who want and need my money.
And it isn't all about me before you say it. I am not the only person who has saved for years to do what they can while raising a family.
You say keep it open for those with job offers. Freedom of movement helps more than those who want to move for work.
If it was all about me I would be spitting feathers like yourself about the Brexiteers. But like I have constantly said it is more than open borders and living where you want. Some control is needed.
I have been in Scotland for a week now spending time with my little grandson. They were on TV last night saying how the population is reducing. They are desperate for people to come and live here wherever they come from. If there are jobs then fill the vacancies. But most want England.
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