The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (56 Viewers)

Astute · Jun 14, 2016

armybike said:
Did he? I've not heard/read anything where he's said that - have you got a link?

I take it that you haven't been following things closely then?

Yes Cameron was all for leaving a few months ago. We can only guess why he has changed his mind. But if you look at where the Tories get their funding from you will see that it is from those wanting to stay in the EU. Those that make the most money out of being in the EU are also tories.

If it would be so much better to stay in the EU why don't they tell us in which ways it would be better? The reason for this is the best that they can come out with is all guesswork. Nobody knows how good or bad for sure leaving would be. And the information that we are getting is from those who have been wrong nearly every time on the big euro matters. Whereas the good points are there for all to see.

I see Sick Boy keeps going on about his Italian partner. But he has not once mentioned how bad it has got in Italy. It has 37.9% youth unemployment. And the rest isn't very good either. They have been giving tax breaks for those taking workers on. They are about to be phased out. Now the taking on of workers has stopped. Their unemployed stands at 11.4%. I wish him well if he keeps to his promise of leaving the UK if we vote leave.

Of course the EU wants us to stay. Who is going to pay in the gross 350million a week net 180 millions a week? And what countries will want to stop trading with us when we buy off them a lot more than we sell?

The leave vote is taking over the remain vote. The British are not as thick as they hoped. Staying in would be better for the rich. Only 6% of companies in the UK sell to the EU. But even some rich people are now saying we need to get out to secure our rights and our futures. The latest is Dyson. He has quoted their rules and regulations as being the main reason.

Astute · Jun 14, 2016

It looks like the British people have made their minds up. A couple of weeks ago I took 7/2 on us voting to leave. Last night I looked and it was at 2/1 like it had been for about a week. Just went on to put more money on as it is a good bet. The odds have dropped to 5/4

armybike · Jun 14, 2016

Astute said:
Yes Cameron was all for leaving a few months ago.

As I've asked could you forward a link covering this.

mrtrench · Jun 14, 2016

I don't recall Cameron ever being pro-leave - and certainly not in the last few months. He postured and threatened that the UK might leave before his negotiations - is that what you meant?

Astute · Jun 14, 2016

armybike said:
As I've asked could you forward a link covering this.

And I stated that if you didn't know you can't have been following as close as you should be. You need to do more than just listen to the scare stories.

Why not just do a Google search instead of wanting others to do it for you? Scared of what you might find?

Astute · Jun 14, 2016

mrtrench said:
I don't recall Cameron ever being pro-leave - and certainly not in the last few months. He postured and threatened that the UK might leave before his negotiations - is that what you meant?

It has been a gradual thing. It wasn't an overnight out/in thing. Maybe it was similar to Fishers bluster. The last noticeable change was where he said on the lines of us being stronger in a reformed EU. Then when he knew that it wasn't going to be reformed he just dropped the word. But if you look further back you will see his ideas change over time. But you will see how his thoughts of not being in our best interests to stay in under the present rules and regulations. This is why they have done character assassination and scare stories and not the truth as he along with others have made several statements.

So how can he say that we need to change what we have as it isn't in our best interests, find that the EU refuses to change then say we are better off as we are?

Kingokings204 · Jun 14, 2016

Astute said:
It looks like the British people have made their minds up. A couple of weeks ago I took 7/2 on us voting to leave. Last night I looked and it was at 2/1 like it had been for about a week. Just went on to put more money on as it is a good bet. The odds have dropped to 5/4

Yes I've noticed that. A few weeks ago leave were 3-1 and now almost even money. Big money and a definitely swing in favor now.

mrtrench · Jun 14, 2016

Astute said:
. You need to do more than just listen to the scare stories.

Certainly agree with this about all voting. Many become 'fans' of one side or another and repeat the rhetoric and veneer-thin arguments of their party. This includes the politicians themselves; I recall the first time I heard one discussing a matter that I know much about and realising that she didn't have a clue - and yet she had an opinion. Don't believe whatever you are told people, investigate and think for yourselves.

armybike · Jun 14, 2016

Astute said:
And I stated that if you didn't know you can't have been following as close as you should be. You need to do more than just listen to the scare stories.

Why not just do a Google search instead of wanting others to do it for you? Scared of what you might find?

You seem to have a misunderstanding of how questions work.

I've asked for a link and you've flew of the handle making all sorted of assumptions.

How is asking directly for info just listening to scare stories?

I'll try again - can you please offer a link covering this?

Sick Boy · Jun 14, 2016

Astute said:
With the amount of shite you have just come out with you have shown that you should be part of the remain side. You would blend in nicely.

It's still quite some way of reaching the proportions of yours though, eh?

In a couple of hundred years when the world is even more intertwined your Brexit argument will look just as insane.

Sick Boy · Jun 14, 2016

It would be interesting to hear astute's economic vision for Britain outside of the EU. Maybe he could get Houchen's Head to give him a hand?

Johnnythespider · Jun 14, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
Yes I've noticed that. A few weeks ago leave were 3-1 and now almost even money. Big money and a definitely swing in favor now.

What are the odds on remain ?

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Johnnythespider · Jun 14, 2016

Johnnythespider said:
What are the odds on remain ?

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Decided to answer my own question as of 11 hours ago 15 bookmakers were offering 4-9, now I'm no betting guru but that looks like a shoe in to me.

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Sick Boy · Jun 14, 2016

Astute said:
I see Sick Boy keeps going on about his Italian partner. But he has not once mentioned how bad it has got in Italy. It has 37.9% youth unemployment. And the rest isn't very good either. They have been giving tax breaks for those taking workers on. They are about to be phased out. Now the taking on of workers has stopped. Their unemployed stands at 11.4%. I wish him well if he keeps to his promise of leaving the UK if we vote to leave

I have never denied that Italy has severe problems. However, and like most Italians, we have a property over there already and would not be required to pay any rent or mortgage. I am able to work remotely so it isn't a problem and my partner is a midwife, so she will fine.

IMO, it won't be long until the £ and € are closer together in terms of value.

Sick Boy · Jun 14, 2016

Johnnythespider said:
Decided to answer my own question as of 11 hours ago 15 bookmakers were offering 4-9, now I'm no betting guru but that looks like a shoe in to me.

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Over the last 10 days the odds on leaving have shortened a lot. I still expect a vote to leave, followed by retaining access to the single market and....freedom of movement.

Astute · Jun 14, 2016

Johnnythespider said:
Decided to answer my own question as of 11 hours ago 15 bookmakers were offering 4-9, now I'm no betting guru but that looks like a shoe in to me.

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Was 1/7 a few weeks ago. Went from 4/9 last night to 8/13 now.

armybike · Jun 14, 2016

Sick Boy said:
Over the last 10 days the odds on leaving have shortened a lot. I still expect a vote to leave, followed by retaining access to the single market and....freedom of movement.

I think the Don't Knows will more likely go to Remain as being undecided at this stage indicates they're of a cautious nature and so wouldn't be happy to vote for leaping into the unknown.

I think Cameron has a few more days of squeaky bum time, but agree it'll end up Remain - but only by about 52/48 or thereabouts.

Sick Boy · Jun 14, 2016

armybike said:
I think the Don't Knows will more likely go to Remain as being undecided at this stage indicates they're of a cautious nature and so wouldn't be happy to vote for leaping into the unknown.

I think Cameron has a few more days of squeaky bum time, but agree it'll end up Remain - but only by about 52/48 or thereabouts.

I'm not convinced and am prepared for a leave vote. If that does happen it's going to be pretty easy to hammer the government once it starts going wrong and their promises are exposed for lies.

Astute · Jun 14, 2016

armybike said:
You seem to have a misunderstanding of how questions work.

I've asked for a link and you've flew of the handle making all sorted of assumptions.

How is asking directly for info just listening to scare stories?

I'll try again - can you please offer a link covering this?

1, Flew off the handle? You are as bad as Cameron with finding things that don't exist. Or would you prefer it if I called you things like idiot like you get at times from others?

2, I am on my phone and can't do links. But even if I wasn't I wouldn't be wasting my time on you. It is all out there on the net. He has been questioned about it in the debates on TV.

armybike · Jun 14, 2016

Sick Boy said:
I'm not convinced an am prepared for a leave vote. If that does happen it's going to be pretty easy to hammer the government once it starts going wrong and their promises are exposed for lies.

I'm not convinced if the vote went to Leave that the government would implement it.

Yes Cameron would have to resign - but as the main parties are both (on the whole) Remain it would be the preferred option for both however achieved.

Sick Boy · Jun 14, 2016

armybike said:
I'm not convinced if the vote went to Leave that the government would implement it.

Yes Cameron would have to resign - but as the main parties are both (on the whole) Remain it would be the preferred option for both however achieved.

I'm not either as they'll know it's economic suicide and could see them out at the next election.
I'm half expecting Johnson to switch to remain at the end of this week.

armybike · Jun 14, 2016

Astute said:
1, Flew off the handle? You are as bad as Cameron with finding things that don't exist. Or would you prefer it if I called you things like idiot like you get at times from others?

2, I am on my phone and can't do links. But even if I wasn't I wouldn't be wasting my time on you. It is all out there on the net. He has been questioned about it in the debates on TV.

So the answer is that you can't or actually won't provide a link.

Fair enough - would have been easier for you to say that from the offset, but hey ho.

Astute · Jun 14, 2016

armybike said:
I think the Don't Knows will more likely go to Remain as being undecided at this stage indicates they're of a cautious nature and so wouldn't be happy to vote for leaping into the unknown.

I think Cameron has a few more days of squeaky bum time, but agree it'll end up Remain - but only by about 52/48 or thereabouts.

The negative way that the remain camp have done things have cost them more votes than anything. If they don't suddenly change it will lead to a leave vote. And I would put it about 55/45 on leave side.

Astute · Jun 14, 2016

Sick Boy said:
I'm not convinced and am prepared for a leave vote. If that does happen it's going to be pretty easy to hammer the government once it starts going wrong and their promises are exposed for lies.

All sides have been on both sides. It is certain MP's that have shown how useless they are and totally unaware of the subjects they are talking about that will get hammered.

Sick Boy · Jun 14, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
You don't have to be a member of the single market and have to accept free movement of people.

Let's just clear that up.

Really?

Kingokings204 · Jun 14, 2016

armybike said:
I'm not convinced if the vote went to Leave that the government would implement it.

Yes Cameron would have to resign - but as the main parties are both (on the whole) Remain it would be the preferred option for both however achieved.

Why wouldn't they implement it? Surely we are democracy?

(I happen to agree with you) I just hope we are wrong and if the vote is to leave then we do leave. Why bother else?

Trouble is eu has a really bad record of listening to people and results hence why there is so much annoyance now. They don't listen to the people. You can then therefore remove them. What price democracy?

Kingokings204 · Jun 14, 2016

Sick Boy said:
Really?

No other country in world sick boy has access to the single market and has to accept free movement of people. China and Usa access the single market don't they? (Well yes they trade with us) they don't take countless millions from the eu via free movement of people. That's a fact.

Kingokings204 · Jun 14, 2016

Sick Boy said:
I'm not either as they'll know it's economic suicide and could see them out at the next election.
I'm half expecting Johnson to switch to remain at the end of this week.

Then why hold he referendum for the British public to decide?

Democracy means the people instruct it's government what to do. Not the other way round.

Kingokings204 · Jun 14, 2016

Sick Boy said:
I'm not convinced and am prepared for a leave vote. If that does happen it's going to be pretty easy to hammer the government once it starts going wrong and their promises are exposed for lies.

Same both way sick boy. If we remain and then turkey get visa free access or anything then it's easy to start throwing stones again.

The eu either way leave or remain doesn't solve all problems. Sure we agree on that.

Astute · Jun 14, 2016

Sick Boy said:
I'm not either as they'll know it's economic suicide and could see them out at the next election.
I'm half expecting Johnson to switch to remain at the end of this week.

Economic suicide is letting others be in charge of your rules, regulations and laws. The EU is full of countries that are behind with most of the rest of the world in terms of growth. They even put countries into worse financial difficulties to be able to keep the Euro. Who thinks that the Euro is a good thing?

So you know that Italy is in a worse state than when it joined the EU. You will know the problems they are having with finances amongst other things. You should know that they can't make their own decisions on the best way of tackling their problems. But you say that it is financial suicide if we leave the EU

Johnnythespider · Jun 14, 2016

Astute said:
Was 1/7 a few weeks ago. Went from 4/9 last night to 8/13 now.

I'm not denying the gap has closed, but the bookies starting position was always going to heavily favour maintaining the status qou. For what it's worth it won't be betting on either option as it will be very close

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Astute · Jun 14, 2016

Johnnythespider said:
I'm not denying the gap has closed, but the bookies starting position was always going to heavily favour maintaining the status qou. For what it's worth it won't be betting on either option as it will be very close

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You said less than an hour ago that it was a shoe in. What did you mean by that?

Kingokings204 · Jun 14, 2016

Johnnythespider said:
I'm not denying the gap has closed, but the bookies starting position was always going to heavily favour maintaining the status qou. For what it's worth it won't be betting on either option as it will be very close

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With respect, You just said 4-9 was a shoe in.

As a betting man 4-9 is nothing but a shoe in a two horse race. It's just the bookies slightly favor remain but has come down from 1-7 in the last few weeks.

Momentum and passion is on the leave side. Money is coming for leave. There is a shift. The electorate is bored and tired of the bullying and threatening.

This has been anything but a free and fair referendum. They are doing everything possible to keep us in. 9 million pound leaflets sent out, vote leave haven't, extending voting by 48 hours. It's been disgraceful really

Johnnythespider · Jun 14, 2016

Astute said:
You said less than an hour ago that it was a shoe in. What did you mean by that?

I meant 4-9 in a two horse race is a shoe in obviously, but I know from the people I've spoken to that it will be very close. I haven't ever said who I think will win as I simply don't know.

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Astute · Jun 14, 2016

Johnnythespider said:
I meant 4-9 in a two horse race is a shoe in obviously, but I know from the people I've spoken to that it will be very close. I haven't ever said who I think will win as I simply don't know.

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I like betting on voting. I got 14/1 on a Conservative majority in the last election. 1/7 would have been considered to be a dead cert. 4/9 a very good chance. But it is only 8/13 now. The good odds are gone.

Just had another look. 4/7 remain. 11/8 leave. It will be very fluid now. It is now all down to bets being made and not their thoughts on the matter. That was when the big odds were to be had.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (56 Viewers)

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