The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (2 Viewers)

[Kingokings204]

I meant 4-9 in a two horse race is a shoe in obviously, but I know from the people I've spoken to that it will be very close. I haven't ever said who I think will win as I simply don't know.

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Of course. No one knows. But 4-9 is not a shoe in by any means.

Cov have been 2-1 for many games last season and won and leave are half a point shorter than that so it's really 50-50 in my eyes

 

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[Grendel]

Why just stop at the EU? We could have more autonomy for the different regions in England and stop those coming from the north entering the south. After all, they put a strain on services and put house prices up. It would much easier to make it law so that no one should leave their place of birth.

The south could also get rid of the scrounging north and the north could be free from the meddling power of London.

Be brave, vote leave.

I genuinely don't understand your stance.

You clearly are of socialist persuasion. There aren't many socialists left in the Labour Party but if there were they would want to leave the EU.

Corbyn has been silenced by the Blairite majority in his party. He is a definite Brexit in reality. Even that old dinosaur Dave Nellist was on the radio last week urging the country to leave.

If we do leave it will be because traditional labour and socialists stay true to their parties real doctrine.

The majority of Tories, daily mail readers etc. will vote to stay.

 

[Kingokings204]

4-6 remain, massively on the drift

11-8 leave. Backed in from 5-1 3-4 weeks ago.

I make it 50-50. This is a coin flip as it stands

 

[dutchman]

The majority of Tories, daily mail readers etc. will vote to stay.

The Daily Mail has never struck me as being a pro-EU newspaper, nor the Daily Telegraph or the Daily Express for that matter.

 

[Grendel]

The Daily Mail has never struck me as being a pro-EU newspaper, nor the Daily Telegraph or the Daily Express for that matter.

Most of its circulation will vote to stay in.

The only way we will leave is if working class non university educated core labour voters want out.

 

[sbadey]

I don't recall Cameron ever being pro-leave - and certainly not in the last few months. He postured and threatened that the UK might leave before his negotiations - is that what you meant?

There was a documentry on one of the 4 main chanels about a month ago which showed Cameron was extremely anti EU until just before he got voted leader of the tory party, shortly before the 2010 elections. The programme was about the historic rivallry between Cameron and Boris. Really this just shows what a chamelion politician hi is, if this story about him becoming EU comisioner after 2019 the exposure of him being lacking in both morals and integrity is really quite shocking......even for a PR man

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[mrtrench]

It would be interesting to hear astute's economic vision for Britain outside of the EU. Maybe he could get Houchen's Head to give him a hand?

I'm happy to discuss this. Let's start with trade with the EU. We can still trade with the EU - but there would be a 10% import tariff (which would also be levied on goods imported from the EU). For sure, imports would reduce but the tariff would still result in revenue for the country. If the GBP FX rate also fell by 10% as many are saying, that would result in UK goods not changing in price at all in the EU and hence exports would not reduce. And also, there would be a greater incentive for UK consumers to buy British. Thoughts?

 

[Grendel]

There was a documentry on one of the 4 main chanels about a month ago which showed Cameron was extremely anti EU until just before he got voted leader of the tory party, shortly before the 2010 elections. The programme was about the historic rivallry between Cameron and Boris. Really this just shows what a chamelion politician hi is, if this story about him becoming EU comisioner after 2019 the exposure of him being lacking in both morals and integrity is really quite shocking......even for a PR man

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On This Week Michael Portillo confirmed Cameron was in his early days against the EU

 

[Astute]

The majority of Tories, daily mail readers etc. will vote to stay.

I read the Daily Mail. I have never voted Conservative. The Tories are out for what they can get for themselves and mainly get voted in by those that see themselves as being above working class.

 

[Johnnythespider]

On This Week Michael Portillo confirmed Cameron was in his early days against the EU

They are all against things when they are young and then become for them when they become part of the establishment, just like Boris will if he becomes PM.

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[Johnnythespider]

I read the Daily Mail. I have never voted Conservative. The Tories are out for what they can get for themselves and mainly get voted in by those that see themselves as being above working class.

Yep they are Ronnie Barker to John Cleese's "upper class" and Ronnie Corbett's "I know my place"

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[fernandopartridge]

Most of its circulation will vote to stay in.

The only way we will leave is if working class non university educated core labour voters want out.

Yes, as soon as pensions are mentioned as being at risk.

 

[Kingokings204]

Just look at this budget this morning put forward by osbourne.

Honestly, does he even think he would be chancellor after brexit? Cameron thinks he would still stay on a PM which is a touch naive to say the least

 

[Astute]

Yes, as soon as pensions are mentioned as being at risk.

They have done that one a couple of times. Just like they did house prices until they noticed that a lot of people need house prices to be lower so would be voting to leave

 

[Astute]

Just look at this budget this morning put forward by osbourne.

Honestly, does he even think he would be chancellor after brexit? Cameron thinks he would still stay on a PM which is a touch naive to say the least

A lot of political careers will be over if we leave the EU and these horror stories don't happen.

 

[Captain Dart]

Yes, as soon as pensions are mentioned as being at risk.

I'm wondering what else Dave & Gideon can claim will implode/fail/explode/fall to pieces as a result of Brexit?
They are getting increasingly desperate as they realise just how out of touch they were.

 

[armybike]

A lot of political careers will be over if we leave the EU and these horror stories don't happen.

No, no they won't.

 

[Astute]

No, no they won't.

So you will be happy to vote for those that haven't got a clue about running our country? It won't take that many that voted for them last time not to vote for them next time for them to lose their seat for many of them. And that is from all parties. But as usual you think you know better.

 

[armybike]

But as usual you think you know better.

Yes I do.

You said "A lot of political careers will be over.....".

Had you said 'some political careers could/may be over' your comment would have been correct.

By saying that a lot will be over, that it's inevitable, means your comment is incorrect.

Always happy to help.

 

[Astute]

I'm wondering what else Dave & Gideon can claim will implode/fail/explode/fall to pieces as a result of Brexit?
They are getting increasingly desperate as they realise just how out of touch they were.

And this is why.

The top Tories are being seen as out of touch with the majority. If you can't trust those at the top who can you trust? It was only recently that Cameron was shown to have been given a substantial amount of money from a tax haven offshore account from his parents. He tried to hide the truth. His days could well be numbered for starters.

 

[fernandopartridge]

No, no they won't.

The new labour in campaigners are gradually making the Labour party less and less relevant. Corbyn should have gone with his own instincts rather than back the Clerkenwell political class.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Yes I do.

You said "A lot of political careers will be over.....".

Had you said 'some political careers could/may be over' your comment would have been correct.

By saying that a lot will be over, that it's inevitable, means your comment is incorrect.

Always happy to help.

 

[armybike]

 

[SIR ERNIE]

....haha yes of course; or perhaps you are simply ignorant?

You claim to be Irish yet wish that Cromwell was back despite him carrying out genocide in Ireland.

I will provide you with a detailed response about how the EU has benefited the Republic over the next couple of days. You do realise that Ireland gets more money from the EU than it puts in, don't you?

And what do you think is the source of the money Ireland gets?

Who hands it over?

Explain

 

[SIR ERNIE]

As Michael Howard said this morning:
There are only three things that are certain in this considering the consequences of a Leave vote.

1. The UK will no longer be handing £380m gross/£250m nett to the EU every week.
2. The UK will control its borders.
3. The elected government of the UK will be able to run the affairs of the country, including law, finances and trade.

correct.

 

[Otis]

As Michael Howard said this morning:
There are only three things that are certain in this considering the consequences of a Leave vote.

1. The UK will no longer be handing £380m gross/£250m nett to the EU every week.
2. The UK will control its borders.
3. The elected government of the UK will be able to run the affairs of the country, including law, finances and trade.

correct.

I am getting a bit worried if we are taking what Michael Howard is saying as true.

 

[Astute]

I am getting a bit worried if we are taking what Michael Howard is saying as true.

I would be a lot more worried if anyone believed what Cameron is saying.

 

[Johnnythespider]

As Michael Howard said this morning:
There are only three things that are certain in this considering the consequences of a Leave vote.

1. The UK will no longer be handing £380m gross/£250m nett to the EU every week.
2. The UK will control its borders.
3. The elected government of the UK will be able to run the affairs of the country, including law, finances and trade.

correct.

I just read this in the guardian and he seems to be advocating a leave vote in order to get further concessions and then go for another referendum. He mentions other countries who have voted against eu policies and gained further concessions.

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[chiefdave]

1. The UK will no longer be handing £380m gross/£250m nett to the EU every week.

0.37% of the UK budget. Do you think that sort of amount is going to solve every problem in the country as leave are implying.

2. The UK will control its borders.

We do control our borders, hence why you have to show your passport.

3. The elected government of the UK will be able to run the affairs of the country, including law, finances and trade.

Are you trying to get people to vote out? Handing more power to Cameron and Osbourne is the last thing we need to be doing.

 

[Astute]

0.37% of the UK budget. Do you think that sort of amount is going to solve every problem in the country as leave are implying.

We do control our borders, hence why you have to show your passport.

Are you trying to get people to vote out? Handing more power to Cameron and Osbourne is the last thing we need to be doing.

1, Would you like to check the percentage that you have used?

2, Anyone with a EU passport is allowed in. And there is no way of checking criminal records.

3, I prefer for someone that I know the name of and have the chance of voting them in or out than those that I can't even name one of and have never been voted in.

 

[Astute]

Looked this morning at the odds. Leave had gone out to 13/8. Just looked now and it has fallen down to 6/5 leave with 4/6 remain.

 

[mrtrench]

I'm aware of the irony of reviving this thread with what I'm about to write...

I'm getting a bit fed up now on my FB page with some friends sharing memes and articles supporting their opinions on the referendum 3 or 4 times a day. I'm aware of what you think; I figured that out after the first 2 posts. There's absolutely nothing new in all the recent posts. I've made my mind up (by thinking for myself not reading the BS from politicians). Enough already.

PS: And, dear FB friend, anyone who is soooo passionate about one side IMO has failed to understand that there are arguments on both sides and it's not clear cut that one is paradise and the other hell. Nobody knows the future on either side so stop pretending that you do and that I'm evil if I think differently to you.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

I'm aware of the irony of reviving this thread with what I'm about to write...

I'm getting a bit fed up now on my FB page with some friends sharing memes and articles supporting their opinions on the referendum 3 or 4 times a day. I'm aware of what you think; I figured that out after the first 2 posts. There's absolutely nothing new in all the recent posts. I've made my mind up (by thinking for myself not reading the BS from politicians). Enough already.

Already sent mine off so it makes no difference what they say now.

 

[Otis]

I would be a lot more worried if anyone believed what Cameron is saying.

Or Boris Johnson, or Michael Gove, or George Osbourne.

What a choice.

 

[chiefdave]

anyone who is soooo passionate about one side IMO has failed to understand that there are arguments on both sides and it's not clear cut that one is paradise and the other hell.

This is the problem with politics in general in this country. A lot of people are entrenched in their views and don't even want to consider the alternative viewpoint.