The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (87 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

Of course they are. Can you think of a reason why they would risk having to pull out of the UK if the EU made it too difficult for them?

Some on here will be most disappointed though I am sure

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[martcov]

This was a few days ago but had been going on for ages.

When Unilever said they were moving their headquarters to Holland it was because of Brexit. Now it isn't happening it was never about Brexit.

Many underestimate the power of London and financial services. If it had moved to Holland the share price would have dropped like a stone. Financial institutions in the UK would have been forced to sell as they have UK holdings.

But have kept away from this as it hasn't been brought up on here. And I only try and put everything into perspective whatever some on here say.

Their version is that it has nothing to do with Brexit. The discussion is about efficiency. Unilever believes one head office is better than 2. they gave in to pressure from shareholders.

 

[martcov]

"Citi plans new UK bank as part of Brexit reorganisation" - Citi plans new UK bank as part of Brexit reorganisation | Reuters

And some are seeing opportunities or seeking to ptotect their business here

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Yes. It is upgrading it’s EU presence and leaving it’s UK presence to deal with UK customers. The good opportunities seem to be elsewhere:


„Alongside a number of its peers, Citi has already opted to bolster its operations in Frankfurt, where its EU trading business will be based after Brexit.


It has also applied for a markets licence and hired senior staff in France, as well as setting up a unit in Luxembourg to support its private bank.“

 

[Astute]

Their version is that it has nothing to do with Brexit. The discussion is about efficiency. Unilever believes one head office is better than 2. they gave in to pressure from shareholders.

So who had the version that it was all to do with Brexit?

So why was there pressure from shareholders?

 

[Astute]

Yes. It is upgrading it’s EU presence and leaving it’s UK presence to deal with UK customers. The good opportunities seem to be elsewhere:


„Alongside a number of its peers, Citi has already opted to bolster its operations in Frankfurt, where its EU trading business will be based after Brexit.


It has also applied for a markets licence and hired senior staff in France, as well as setting up a unit in Luxembourg to support its private bank.“

Seems to be of course.

But what you ignore is the world is a bigger place than Europe. And in financial terms London is bigger than the rest of Europe. You are right to say that it will take time for the UK to catch up with Brexit. But you seem to think that the EU can take over from London overnight. We even help fund the EU bank.

 

[Astute]

So Mart, the EU commission bared it's teeth at the way Juncker promoted Selmayr but ended up doing nothing. Do you think the commissioners were given something for letting it continue?

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. But you of course will know differently. It is all about jobs for the boys and family.

Any chance of your honest opinion?

No comment yet Mart? Strange as you have had plenty to say on the subject so far.

 

[martcov]

Seems to be of course.

But what you ignore is the world is a bigger place than Europe. And in financial terms London is bigger than the rest of Europe. You are right to say that it will take time for the UK to catch up with Brexit. But you seem to think that the EU can take over from London overnight. We even help fund the EU bank.

I haven’t said anything of the sort. Just that Banks are waiting to see what happens and some have already started upgrading their EU presence.

 

[martcov]

So who had the version that it was all to do with Brexit?

So why was there pressure from shareholders?

Not me.

I am not a shareholder and don’t know what their objection was.

 

[martcov]

Which again totally misses the point

Putting it simplistically. The GFA is an annex to a registered treaty with the UN. It guarantees everyone’s right to their aspirations and bans discrimination. Basically, the republicans can get about their life feeling as if they are in a unified Ireland, and Unionists have the guarantee, unless a referendum is deemed necessary, to remain British. Putting a border takes that away and thus contravenes the GFA. 56% voted remain. 72% are against the DUP stance.

 

[Grendel]

Putting it simplistically. The GFA is an annex to a registered treaty with the UN. It guarantees everyone’s right to their aspirations and bans discrimination. Basically, the republicans can get about their life feeling as if they are in a unified Ireland, and Unionists have the guarantee, unless a referendum is deemed necessary, to remain British. Putting a border takes that away and thus contravenes the GFA. 56% voted remain. 72% are against the DUP stance.

Wrong again - read the Annexe 1 (2) in the constitution section of the agreement

 

[Astute]

I haven’t said anything of the sort. Just that Banks are waiting to see what happens and some have already started upgrading their EU presence.

Banks are leaving London is your headline.

But they are not. Some are moving branches into Europe in case they are needed. But they are not all UK banks.

We won't know what is going on for a fair bit of time.

 

[Astute]

Come on Mart.

Two comments from me about the EU commission being very unhappy with the way Juncker promoted Selmayr but did nothing.

I think they were offered a sweetener by Selmayr and Juncker for them not to take action. You haven't replied straight away as you normally do when an allegation is put against the EU.

This makes me think that I am right. So what do you know?

 

[martcov]

Banks are leaving London is your headline.

But they are not. Some are moving branches into Europe in case they are needed. But they are not all UK banks.

We won't know what is going on for a fair bit of time.

I said Banks are waiting to see what happens.

 

[martcov]

Come on Mart.

Two comments from me about the EU commission being very unhappy with the way Juncker promoted Selmayr but did nothing.

I think they were offered a sweetener by Selmayr and Juncker for them not to take action. You haven't replied straight away as you normally do when an allegation is put against the EU.

This makes me think that I am right. So what do you know?

Letting Liam Fox back into frontline politics is downright dishonourable

 

[Astute]

Letting Liam Fox back into frontline politics is downright dishonourable

Can you explain how that is an answer to the question I gave you?

The EU commission said how bad it was that Selmayr was given the position. Do you think that they were given a sweetener to not take any action?

Should be a simple question as you said there was no action they could take.

 

[Sick Boy]

I seem to remember that there were some comments on this thread initially about voting leave due to TTP, it seems like the honest Liam Fox is pretty excited about joining it post Brexit

 

[Astute]

I seem to remember that there were some comments on this thread initially about voting leave due to TTP, it seems like the honest Liam Fox is pretty excited about joining it post Brexit

It does look promising. But all depends on being able to set our own deals so means we must leave the EU customs union.

 

[Sick Boy]

It does look promising. But all depends on being able to set our own deals so means we must leave the EU customs union.

You think joining TTP is promising? In what way?

Do you think unions are right be concerned that doing so could impact workers' rights?

UK leaving single market for TPP could hit workers' rights, union warns

Yeah, it sounds great! :/

 

[Astute]

You think joining TTP is promising? In what way?

Do you think unions are right be concerned that doing so is going to impact workers' rights?

UK leaving single market for TPP could hit workers' rights, union warns

Everything can hit workers rights. They have been going downhill for many years. Yes many years before Brexit.

You do know that you don't have to try and go against every bit of good news don't you? But that doesn't go with what you are on this thread for.

How about a more up to date article from the Guardian

UK welcome to join Pacific trade pact after Brexit, says Japanese PM

 

[Sick Boy]

Everything can hit workers rights. They have been going downhill for many years. Yes many years before Brexit.

You do know that you don't have to try and go against every bit of good news don't you? But that doesn't go with what you are on this thread for.

How about a more up to date article from the Guardian

UK welcome to join Pacific trade pact after Brexit, says Japanese PM

I'm sure the likes of Fox, Patel and Rees-Mogg will ensure that the future of British workers are secured.

I'm surprised you're such a fan of TTP, to be honest and see it as a positive.

As I said, originally posters on here were citing TPP as a reason to vote leave.

Oh dear.

 

[Astute]

I'm sure the likes of Fox, Patel and Rees-Mogg will ensure that the future of British workers are secured.

I'm surprised you're such a fan of TTP, to be honest and see it as a positive.

As I said, originally posters on here were citing TPP as a reason to vote leave.

Oh dear.

Oh dear what?

So we have a trade deal all ready to sign when we leave that you and others have been implying will take years to sort out. Now you try to make out that it is bad news.

So why is it bad news?

Is it because we were not supposed to get a deal with countries like Australia so quickly?

 

[Sick Boy]

Oh dear what?

So we have a trade deal all ready to sign when we leave that you and others have been implying will take years to sort out. Now you try to make out that it is bad news.

So why is it bad news?

Is it because we were not supposed to get a deal with countries like Australia so quickly?

How's joining TPP going to help out 'those left behind'?

The 'oh dear' was in reference to those on this forum who cited the prospect of joining TTIP with the EU as a reason to leave.

You've got a lot more in common with Fox, Patel and Rees-Mogg et al than I thought.

 

[skybluetony176]

You think joining TTP is promising? In what way?

Do you think unions are right be concerned that doing so could impact workers' rights?

UK leaving single market for TPP could hit workers' rights, union warns

Yeah, it sounds great! :/

It’s also worth noting that Trump has pulled the US out of this deal but crucially with the backing of a lot of democrats including Bernie Sanders who politically about as far away as you can get from Trump.

There’s also the small point that the EU has been negotiating a free trade deal with Japan for a couple of years now which has just recently been agreed and is now going through the finishing stages before implementation.

Who’s to say that a trade agreement that the US turned it’s back on with cross party agreement is going to be better than what the EU/Japan deal will be? Leaving the EU and joining the TPP could yet be an own goal.

 

[Sick Boy]

It’s also worth noting that Trump has pulled the US out of this deal but crucially with the backing of a lot of democrats including Bernie Sanders who politically about as far away as you can get from Trump.

There’s also the small point that the EU has been negotiating a free trade deal with Japan for a couple of years now which has just recently been agreed and is now going through the finishing stages before implementation.

Who’s to say that a trade agreement that the US turned it’s back on with cross party agreement is going to be better than what the EU/Japan deal will be? Leaving the EU and joining the TPP could yet be an own goal.

Any deal is likely to be a take it or leave option as well.

According to some though, workers' rights have been in decline for a while now, so what difference will it make.

It's bizarre how much hypocrisy there is on this thread and backtracking and how rabid some are to get Brexit done despite the negative impact it looks to have on people's lives.

It really is going to turn into a race to the bottom.

 

[skybluetony176]

Any deal is likely to be a take it or leave option as well.

According to some though, workers' rights have been in decline for a while now, so what difference will it make.

It's bizarre how much hypocrisy there is on this thread and backtracking and how rabid some are to get Brexit done despite the negative impact it looks to have on people's lives.

It really is going to turn into a race to the bottom.

The more I read about the TPP the more undesirable it sounds. Many members have unresolved issues on terms, we’d have little to no say on environmental and workers rights issues and pretty much all those in it have major trade with China rather than the other members meaning China are probably the most influential country on it and they aren’t even in it.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I'm sure the likes of Fox, Patel and Rees-Mogg will ensure that the future of British workers are secured.

I'm surprised you're such a fan of TTP, to be honest and see it as a positive.

As I said, originally posters on here were citing TPP as a reason to vote leave.

Oh dear.

TTP obviously presents opportunities for the economy as well as the negative side portrayed for a start it said we have 1.6% exports to Japan - the largest economy in the group. Plenty of room for growth there!

TUC moaning - think about their self interest. They actually have to get their arse into gear & find a way to protect siad jobs (whilst ignoring the jobs that will be created by the opportunities)...hence they are scaremongering before discussions have led to a realistic joining option.

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[martcov]

TTP obviously presents opportunities for the economy as well as the negative side portrayed for a start it said we have 1.6% exports to Japan - the largest economy in the group. Plenty of room for growth there!

TUC moaning - think about their self interest. They actually have to get their arse into gear & find a way to protect siad jobs (whilst ignoring the jobs that will be created by the opportunities)...hence they are scaremongering before discussions have led to a realistic joining option.

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The EU has, or is getting shortly, a free trade deal with Japan. Another one is being worked on with Australia, and Juncker is in talks with the USA.

 

[skybluetony176]

The EU has, or is getting shortly, a free trade deal with Japan.

All agreed apparently. Coming to an EU country near you soon. Not us obviously.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

The more I read about the TPP the more undesirable it sounds. Many members have unresolved issues on terms, we’d have little to no say on environmental and workers rights issues and pretty much all those in it have major trade with China rather than the other members meaning China are probably the most influential country on it and they aren’t even in it.

Nothing like the TTP will be enforced on the UK, especially for workers rights / environmental issues.

Remember the TTP was semi-agreed by both the EU and the US... And the US has woeful records on both employment rights and environmental issues. Of all things that we may/may not be aligned to with the EU whether we hard/soft/no deal, I would bet that the UK will be aligned to the EU on these areas, regardless as to whether they are forced to, or voluntarily.

 

[skybluetony176]

Just reading some of the reasons Trump pulled out and it seems mainly due to US manufacturing being able under TTP terms to outsource US jobs to places like Vietnam where labour rates are considerably lower without any penalties for doing so as it’s allowed under the rules of TTP membership.

 

[Grendel]

All agreed apparently. Coming to an EU country near you soon. Not us obviously.

They are stopping all duties on imported cars? Wow

 

[Astute]

How's joining TPP going to help out 'those left behind'?

The 'oh dear' was in reference to those on this forum who cited the prospect of joining TTIP with the EU as a reason to leave.

You've got a lot more in common with Fox, Patel and Rees-Mogg et al than I thought.

You love having a go at both sides of the coin don't you.

Ha Ha look at you Brexit idiots. There won't be any trade deals for years....


Which turns into


Well to tell you the truth a veiled insult or making comments that make other trade deals sound bad.

Do I compare you with idiots that say Brexit is bad? Because there are plenty of them to say you are similar to. But I am not on here to insult you to try and make a point. That is playground stuff. I left school many years ago.

 

[Astute]

The more I read about the TPP the more undesirable it sounds. Many members have unresolved issues on terms, we’d have little to no say on environmental and workers rights issues and pretty much all those in it have major trade with China rather than the other members meaning China are probably the most influential country on it and they aren’t even in it.

You are unreal.

Are you saying that we don't do major trade with China already? Most of the world does. But let's twist some more words.

 

[Astute]

The EU has, or is getting shortly, a free trade deal with Japan. Another one is being worked on with Australia, and Juncker is in talks with the USA.

But you and the others are unhappy that we would have an instant trade deal with Japan and Australia. That is after you saying it would take years to happen if at all.

So how about the question I gave you a few days ago that made you go quiet. Makes me think you know something.

Can you explain how that is an answer to the question I gave you?

The EU commission said how bad it was that Selmayr was given the position. Do you think that they were given a sweetener to not take any action?

Should be a simple question as said there was no action they could take.

 

[Astute]

All agreed apparently. Coming to an EU country near you soon. Not us obviously.

Not us?

Can't you see that your untruths are easy to see? You are moaning about our trade deal with Japan. Now you are saying that we won't get one