The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (267 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

So being 100% biased on the side of the EU is being prudent?

And more twisting of words. So who will Brexit be brilliant for?

I wouldn’t know. I never have been.

 

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[Astute]

DUH! Again. The EU isn’t making a deal with Japan and others it’s making a deal with Japan only.

So there is no deal being attempted with Australia?

They are the two biggest in the bloc. They would be a good thing to have. And that is what is pissing you off. Because you can now see the possibilities for us and know that 27 countries in the EU would have to agree before an agreement is made.

 

[Astute]

I wouldn’t know. I never have been.

And never twist the truth or twist words either......

 

[skybluetony176]

Tony his main issue on this was actually the fact he wanted to stuff huge tariffs on steel to protect construction jobs

At least you’re on the right track even if you haven’t answered the question.

 

[martcov]

Which is what the EU is also all about. Lots of our jobs have gone to EU countries. And the EU lent money to Turkey to take jobs from the UK.

But let's forget about the truth I suppose.

The truth. The EIB lent the U.K. 2,1 billion pounds in the UK the same year as they lent 80 million to a part of a 4 billion pounds project in Turkey. There is no evidence that the jobs would have been saved without the 80 million loan to a joint venture in an EU neighbour country. There is a valid assumption that the 2,1 billion helped create thousands of jobs in the U.K.. Pity you tend to forget the truth when it suits.

 

[skybluetony176]

So there is no deal being attempted with Australia?

They are the two biggest in the bloc. They would be a good thing to have. And that is what is pissing you off. Because you can now see the possibilities for us and know that 27 countries in the EU would have to agree before an agreement is made.

Again, with Australia alone. Not Australia as a TPP member. The Japan deal is agreed. If you’re concern is celebrating trade deals with the two biggest members in the block you may as well back remain and not risk things like outsourcing U.K. jobs to Vietnam or being a member of a trading block where the biggest influence is a non member. Our trade with Japan and Australia is more compatible and beneficial as an EU member than it is as a member of a block heavily influenced by China. The TPP argument is an argument for remain when you look at the details.

Nothing is pissing me of, I’m just in no hurry to throw caution into the wind and invite a potential Trojan Horse into the country so the likes of Fox can say brexit is a success. And neither should anyone else.

 

[martcov]

So what were you saying?

They have major trade with China. We have major trade with China. Most of the world has major trade with China. Do you agree with this?

So one major trade with China is different to another major trade with China?

Joining a trade block?

It is a trade agreement between countries. It isn't an EU that costs billions to be a part of. It isn't an EU that stops you from making trade deals elsewhere. It isn't an EU that makes you keep to rules and regulations with the largest country constantly let off with not keeping to them. It isn't an EU that makes you take everyone who has a passport for the trade area.

I can't believe how many are pissed off that trade deals are being made for the UK for when we have left the EU. It just shows that some on here don't have the UK's best interests at heart.

The EU don’t break the rules. Individuals may have done. If TPP isn’t a trading bloc, what is it?

 

[Astute]

The truth. The EIB lent the U.K. 2,1 billion pounds in the UK the same year as they lent 80 million to a part of a 4 billion pounds project in Turkey. There is no evidence that the jobs would have been saved without the 80 million loan to a joint venture in an EU neighbour country. There is a valid assumption that the 2,1 billion helped create thousands of jobs in the U.K.. Pity you tend to forget the truth when it suits.

Me forget the truth?

The loan was for the plant to expand so they could take over full production of the Tranny. Or are you implying that they loaned the money without knowing what the plan for the money was?

How much of this money has come from the UK?


One more thing. The question you have dodged for days. Did the EU commission take a bribe off those running the EU to stop them from taking action over the Selmayr debacle?

 

[skybluetony176]

And never twist the truth or twist words either......

The only one twisting is you. I’ve corrected you a few times tonight already when you’ve tried to twist what I’ve said.

 

[Astute]

Again, with Australia alone. Not Australia as a TPP member. The Japan deal is agreed. If you’re concern is celebrating trade deals with the two biggest members in the block you may as well back remain and not risk things like outsourcing U.K. jobs to Vietnam or being a member of a trading block where the biggest influence is a non member. Our trade with Japan and Australia is more compatible and beneficial as an EU member than it is as a member of a block heavily influenced by China. The TPP argument is an argument for remain when you look at the details.

Nothing is pissing me of, I’m just in no hurry to throw caution into the wind and invite a potential Trojan Horse into the country so the likes of Fox can say brexit is a success. And neither should anyone else.

Ah. So the EU only wants a deal with Japan. But when I question you they also want a deal with Australia. Both Australia and Japan do major trade with China. Australia and Japan are the largest members out of the agreement. Nothing wrong with Australia and Japan being in the agreement or nothing wrong with doing trade deals with Australia and Japan. But when it comes to the UK it is a massive travesty.

And you are not biased.

 

[Astute]

The EU don’t break the rules. Individuals may have done. If TPP isn’t a trading bloc, what is it?

Individuals running the EU break rules and regulations. Not low down people.

So what do you class as the EU? Not those running it?

So how about do you think the EU commission who looked into the debacle of Selmayr? Do you think they took a bung? Have more crooked and bent things occurred?

 

[Astute]

The only one twisting is you. I’ve corrected you a few times tonight already when you’ve tried to twist what I’ve said.

What have you corrected?

What you have said is it is good for the EU to try and make deals but it isn't good for the UK to make deals.

 

[martcov]

Individuals running the EU break rules and regulations. Not low down people.

So what do you class as the EU? Not those running it?

So how about do you think the EU commission who looked into the debacle of Selmayr? Do you think they took a bung? Have more crooked and bent things occurred?

We’ve been through this a million times.

 

[skybluetony176]

Ah. So the EU only wants a deal with Japan. But when I question you they also want a deal with Australia. Both Australia and Japan do major trade with China. Australia and Japan are the largest members out of the agreement. Nothing wrong with Australia and Japan being in the agreement or nothing wrong with doing trade deals with Australia and Japan. But when it comes to the UK it is a massive travesty.

And you are not biased.

My god you’re stupid. It’s the TPP that China has influence on. It doesn’t have influence on a EU/Japan trade deal or a EU/Australia trade deal. They’re acting as an individual entity with the EU. In stark contrast we’re not being offered a trade deal with Japan or Australia as individual countries. We’re being offered membership into a lame duck trading block that’s barely getting of the ground and will be heavily influenced by an external force. As a proud Brit I actually find it quite insulting that this is what’s being offered as opposed to individual trade deals with Japan and Australia. You’re an idiot because you can’t see it for what it is. You don’t understand the difference between individual trade deals and a block trade deal and you’re interpretation of advanced talks is a comment in a newspaper interview.

 

[skybluetony176]

We’ve been through this a million times.

And if you let astute do it you’ll go through it a million more times just because of this subject alone. He clearly needs the distraction.

 

[skybluetony176]

What have you corrected?

What you have said is it is good for the EU to try and make deals but it isn't good for the UK to make deals.

It isn’t a trade deal. It’s a join our trading block on these terms if you like. Insulting. Japan doesn’t even have the respect to offer us talks on a bespoke trade deal with them. If that’s brexit you can stick it.

 

[martcov]

Me forget the truth?

The loan was for the plant to expand so they could take over full production of the Tranny. Or are you implying that they loaned the money without knowing what the plan for the money was?

How much of this money has come from the UK?


One more thing. The question you have dodged for days. Did the EU commission take a bribe off those running the EU to stop them from taking action over the Selmayr debacle?

They voted 28:0. the Commissioners get to keep their perks for 3 years after they leave. A new rule. Yes it stinks, but I have had enough of Selmayr for the next few years.

The plant in Turkey was a joint venture with a Turkish firm and the loan was part of a 4 billion development which had nothing to do with Southampton. Yes, they loaned money knowing it was part of a 4 billion development, not a cunning plan to build a multi million factory to take workers from a plant in the U.K.. They loaned 2,1 billion to the U.K., why are you on about a Turkish development, and not the U.K. investments?

 

[Astute]

We’ve been through this a million times.

No.

You have stuck up for them and constantly made excuses for them. And when you can't make excuses for them you try and use the excuse that they did nothing illegal although it is rules and regulations that cover what they have done and not laws.

 

[Astute]

My god you’re stupid. It’s the TPP that China has influence on. It doesn’t have influence on a EU/Japan trade deal or a EU/Australia trade deal. They’re acting as an individual entity with the EU. In stark contrast we’re not being offered a trade deal with Japan or Australia as individual countries. We’re being offered membership into a lame duck trading block that’s barely getting of the ground and will be heavily influenced by an external force. As a proud Brit I actually find it quite insulting that this is what’s being offered as opposed to individual trade deals with Japan and Australia. You’re an idiot because you can’t see it for what it is. You don’t understand the difference between individual trade deals and a block trade deal and you’re interpretation of advanced talks is a comment in a newspaper interview.

Are China a part of it?

No.

So explain your bullshit for once.

 

[martcov]

What have you corrected?

What you have said is it is good for the EU to try and make deals but it isn't good for the UK to make deals.

You say it isn’t a trading bloc, just a trade agreement.

The aims of TPP:

• lower tariffs on trade between partners;

SM and CU better

• uniform intellectual property protections;

Lots of criticism about that

• standardized labor and environmental laws;

Like the EU. Probably lower standards than the EU though.

• built-in investor-state dispute settlement mechanisms.

Like the ECJ. Tories won’t like that.

 

[Astute]

And if you let astute do it you’ll go through it a million more times just because of this subject alone. He clearly needs the distraction.

Distraction?

Latest news today.

Someone not biased says we will have to do what China says if we get a trade deal with Japan and Australia. That is because we do a lot of trade with China.

The EU wants to do a trade deal with Japan and Australia. They do a lot of trade with China. Doesn't count here though.

 

[martcov]

No.

You have stuck up for them and constantly made excuses for them. And when you can't make excuses for them you try and use the excuse that they did nothing illegal although it is rules and regulations that cover what they have done and not laws.

Stick up for who? I have said it was a scam sham and annoying, but not illegal. No money changed hands, and the new rules are not illegal. It wasn’t me that found the whole thing legal. That was two enquiries. Pointing out facts is not sticking up for anyone.

 

[Astute]

They voted 28:0. the Commissioners get to keep their perks for 3 years after they leave. A new rule. Yes it stinks, but I have had enough of Selmayr for the next few years.

No Mart. Have a much bigger one than this for you. Think you also know about it. Shows the whole system is bent.

 

[Astute]

You say it isn’t a trading bloc, just a trade agreement.

The aims of TPP:

• lower tariffs on trade between partners;

SM and CU better

• uniform intellectual property protections;

Lots of criticism about that

• standardized labor and environmental laws;

Like the EU. Probably lower standards than the EU though.

• built-in investor-state dispute settlement mechanisms.

Like the ECJ. Tories won’t like that.

Lower standards than the EU. But the EU countries don't keep to them. Especially Germany.

 

[Astute]

Stick up for who? I have said it was a scam sham and annoying, but not illegal. No money changed hands, and the new rules are not illegal. It wasn’t me that found the whole thing legal. That’s as two enquiries. Pointing out facts is not sticking up for anyone.

Enquiries made by a commission that has been paid off by those at the top of the EU.

Are you going to categorically say that the commission wasn't paid off?

 

[martcov]

Lower standards than the EU. But the EU countries don't keep to them. Especially Germany.

That’s not generally true. When they do break the rules, they get sanctioned- as Germany are being right now for not taking enough action over diesel emissions. And the U.K. for not charging over 2 billion tariffs on Chiinese imports.

 

[martcov]

Enquiries made by a commission that has been paid off by those at the top of the EU.

Are you going to categorically say that the commission wasn't paid off?

The enquiry wasn’t paid off. The ombudsman wasn’t paid off.

 

[skybluetony176]

Distraction?

Latest news today.

Someone not biased says we will have to do what China says if we get a trade deal with Japan and Australia. That is because we do a lot of trade with China.

The EU wants to do a trade deal with Japan and Australia. They do a lot of trade with China. Doesn't count here though.

Twisting again. Joining the TPP not a trade deal with Japan and Australia. Joining the TPP barely qualifies as a trade deal. The deals been done already, we’ll be filling out an application form and that’s it. No negotiation of terms, these are the terms sign here. Or don’t. It’s an insult not a trade deal.

 

[Astute]

The enquiry wasn’t paid off. The ombudsman wasn’t paid off.

Is that 100% correct?

Can feel a new twist to the Selmayr debacle coming soon.

 

[Grendel]

At least you’re on the right track even if you haven’t answered the question.

The thing is Tony he wouldn’t be part of the Eu for the same “reason” either. Still it’s nice to see you value his protectionism above Mr Obama’s more liberal view on free trade.

 

[Astute]

That’s not generally true. When they do break the rules, they get sanctioned- as Germany are being right now for not taking enough action over diesel emissions. And the U.K. for not charging over 2 billion tariffs on Chiinese imports.

So what has the EU done about rules and regulations being broke when the tests were falsified by German car makers?

 

[Astute]

Twisting again. Joining the TPP not a trade deal with Japan and Australia. Joining the TPP barely qualifies as a trade deal. The deals been done already, we’ll be filling out an application form and that’s it. No negotiation of terms, these are the terms sign here. Or don’t. It’s an insult not a trade deal.

So explain how it isn't a trade deal. Explain what else you know.

 

[skybluetony176]

Are China a part of it?

No.

So explain your bullshit for once.

I’ve already told you. Look at Obama’s motive for joining/creating the TPP. You’re absolutely clueless on anything regarding the TPP.

 

[Astute]

The thing is Tony he wouldn’t be part of the Eu for the same “reason” either. Still it’s nice to see you value his protectionism above Mr Obama’s more liberal view on free trade.

He would only want a trade deal if he has full say on what tariffs are charged and have the right to change them as he wants.

But Tony knows better.

 

[skybluetony176]

So explain how it isn't a trade deal. Explain what else you know.

Again? No thanks. I’m done repeating myself to you. Just read back. I haven’t changed my view.