The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (66 Viewers)

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%

  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I don't know if this is tinfoil hat time, but I can't help but think this deal has been put together in this way so to make the remainers and leavers both unhappy.

So unhappy there ends up being another vote.

Another vote that would include a 'remain' option.

Not trying to come across as a twat, but this whole thing stinks...
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I think leave would win again if there was ever another referendum.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
I doubt whether EU migration would continue at that rate as average wages in former East Bloc countries are rising. More like non EU migrants will be caring for the baby boomers when they are older. Refugee quota is Merkel’s aim.
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isn't that you ?!
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
Not sure what you're going on about.
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The Northern Ireland people under the constitution of the Agreement can call a referendum at any time to leave the UK
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
Whatever way it went - we'd have an even more divisive country than we have now.
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The obvious solution would have been to accept that the country needed to leave but to consider the large minority who wished to stay - adopt the Norway option which is out of the Eu, restricts law making influences from the EU and allows a customs union
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
How do you know that they haven’t seen it? They seem pretty adamant about it so at the very least they’ve been briefed on it.
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What before the Cabinet? I doubt it tbh. There have been odd snippets from some insiders perhaps that have only given part information which they are basing the rants on. Then when they see the detail (which will have positives highlited to them) they will be calmer...maybe still opposed but less so.

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Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Grendel said:
The obvious solution would have been to accept that the country needed to leave but to consider the large minority who wished to stay - adopt the Norway option which is out of the Eu, restricts law making influences from the EU and allows a customs union
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Not sure many on here will disagree with that, it's always been the option to compromise.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Just watching the news and it’s comical. Can’t see this deal happening. Any customs union is apparently temporary so labour won’t back it, Northern Ireland is apparently going to have a different arrangement to the rest of the U.K. so the DUP won’t back it, SNP has already said that they won’t back anything that involves leaving the single market and customs union and on top of that they’ve made the very good point that they have strong trading links with Northern Ireland so they’re going to have to have one trading arrangement with one part of the U.K. and a different trading arrangement with the rest of the U.K. which is mental, Scottish Tories are talking about a revolt on fishing and the Welsh simply seem to have been forgotten about all together.

Cabinet meeting still hasn’t finished either. 4+ hours now.
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Not so long ago...many didn't see there even being a deal! I think you were among them. BUT we have a deal - getting it through (on both sides of the channel) is a different matter.

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SIR ERNIE

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Not so long ago...many didn't see there even being a deal! I think you were among them. BUT we have a deal - getting it through (on both sides of the channel) is a different matter.

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This isn't a deal and it's definitely not Brexit. Remaining in the EU is better than this sell out. It has no chance of getting through parliament.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
Is being a Labour voter meaning I must forget what the leaders have done?

You have said in the same post about Bliar. I have just posted about Corbyn and how he changes his mind to suit what he wants the voters to think. Should I pretend to like either of them because I am a Labour voter?
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It means you should follow & support the leadership's vision & decisions without question.

Just like as a CCFC supporter...I hope you were a regular at Sixfields? Lol

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C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
The obvious solution would have been to accept that the country needed to leave but to consider the large minority who wished to stay - adopt the Norway option which is out of the Eu, restricts law making influences from the EU and allows a customs union
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It would never have worked (as in the country/public accepting it) as we would have to accept the four freedoms. Looked at it a bit back and this is an interesting (unbiased I think) article.

The Norway model is back on the Brexit agenda — here's what that means

What a mess the current situation is ! However, I suppose it all depends whether people believe an agreement will be reached during the transition period....will EU act in good faith (try to get a trade deal or leave us hanging), will any future deal be able to resolve the Irish border issue etc etc

Don’t think the current proposal will get through parliament though. Just can’t see how the mathematics will work.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
SkyblueBazza said:
Not so long ago...many didn't see there even being a deal! I think you were among them. BUT we have a deal - getting it through (on both sides of the channel) is a different matter.

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It will get through over there without any problems as it has been rubber-stamped by the 27 other leaders throughout, it is over here that it is going to be an actual issue.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
CCFCSteve said:
It would never have worked (as in the country/public accepting it) as we would have to accept the four freedoms. Looked at it a bit back and this is an interesting (unbiased I think) article.

The Norway model is back on the Brexit agenda — here's what that means

What a mess the current situation is ! However, I suppose it all depends whether people believe an agreement will be reached during the transition period....will EU act in good faith (try to get a trade deal or leave us hanging), will any future deal be able to resolve the Irish border issue etc etc.
Don’t think the current proposal will get through parliament though. Just can’t see how the mathematics will work.
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I posted the video earlier of prominent Leavers suggesting it as a viable option, but then the vote happened and the goalposts moved. The country is currently incredibly divided and it would go someway towards bridging those divides.

Considering that we are supposed to have all very low levels of unemployment, it suggests that there is the demand there to fill jobs, therefore the actual numbers coming into the country are unlikely to fall. For the people at the top and in charge Brexit has never been about reducing immigration, they couldn't care less about that.

I noticed this in the article:

Article 112 of the EEA Agreement allows non-EU member states to opt out of the four freedoms if they are facing serious economic, societal or environmental strain. For example, Lichtenstein used Article 112 to impose controls on the free movement of people, due to concerns over whether a landlocked country of such modest size and resources could cope with big influxes of people. Obviously, Britain is very different from Lichtenstein, and would likely have a much tougher time arguing for an immigration opt-out.

I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility for the UK to negotiate some sort of cap on net migration above a certain number/depending on economic conditions. That would be easier to sell to the public.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The money taken from my salary to pay off the £35k of student debt isn't enough to pay off the interest never mind the loans. The 2008 recession was the worst since 1929 and happened just as I went off to university. I graduated 5 years after that with a 1st class Masters and industrial experience but nobody was hiring. As for climate change it has gone on steroids in the past few decades despite there being far more evidence than there was for those around in the industrial revolution. Oh, and let's not forget the long list of failed military interventions. And the tremendous shit show that constitutes Brexit.

Instead the government denies young people a living wage, takes away maintenance grants and EMA, and refuses to fund education in line with inflation.
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So who are you blaming for everything?

If what they say about climate change is true it has taken more than 50 years to get to this stage. War? I think you need to look at your history a bit more. If you want to blame something for this try religion. Hitler was different. But religion came into it. Ask the Jews. I suppose bombs going off all over the world had no effect. Living wage? At least you now have a minimum wage and holiday pay. In my younger days there was no minimum wage or holiday pay. If you took time off you didn't get paid.

You seem to think those older than you had it easy. Why don't you ask those older than yourself. I worked about 80 hours a week to earn enough to live on. That was either 6 or 7 days a week. I also had to study to get where I am now.

I am not saying it is easy these days. I am not saying that universities should all charge the full amount. I am not saying that you should start off with a lit of debt. But it was the choice you made. And it certainly wasn't easy for my generation.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
The obvious solution would have been to accept that the country needed to leave but to consider the large minority who wished to stay - adopt the Norway option which is out of the Eu, restricts law making influences from the EU and allows a customs union
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Easier said than done though.

Who here thinks that if we would have gone to the EU and said we want to leave but have what Norway has would have got a positive response?

Just before the referendum the joke of a PM Cameron asked for a meeting about talking on making a change on who we let into our country to live. Juncker even refused a meeting. Then he let everyone know when Cameron said he had got a meeting scheduled.

As you all know I have been saying that I saw the Norway option as the best way of getting out of this mess. But no way can I have seen it happening if that was what we asked for. We were never going to get what we asked for. But now the date for leaving is close there had to be some movement.

Yes leaving without a deal would cause pain. But that is on both sides. But at least the EU could make out that they have won. And other countries wanting to leave in the future can see it isn't an easy process.

If it is the Norway option I would like to know how much each year it will cost us. A large 'divorce' bill and large annual payment?
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Not so long ago...many didn't see there even being a deal! I think you were among them. BUT we have a deal - getting it through (on both sides of the channel) is a different matter.
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Logic always said there would be a deal. The EU countries do too much trade with us to just show us the middle finger. It was the one card we always had in our favour. There are thousands of companies in the EU that depend on trade with us. Many of these are in countries with high unemployment rates. They are in countries that already take money out of the EU.

But now isn't a time to celebrate yet. There is a long way to go. We have those that say only out is out. And we also have those who want to remain and nothing else. Will they be happy with a middle of the road approach?
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Grappa said:
The deal seems to be basically shitloads of concessions and removal of veto-rights with a curtailment of freedom of movement in return. Absolutely fucking rubbish.
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Remain in the EU doesn't seem to be an option.

Another referendum doesn't seem to be an option.

So what is your thoughts on making this shitfest become something that is acceptable to all sides?
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Not so long ago...many didn't see there even being a deal! I think you were among them. BUT we have a deal - getting it through (on both sides of the channel) is a different matter.

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We don't have a deal. Cabinet has agreed a frame work for withdrawal.
I doubt it will get in front of the EU as the terms appear to me to be unacceptable to the DUP and in all likelihood hard line Brexiteers.
 
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