The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (51 Viewers)

[martcov]

Logic always said there would be a deal. The EU countries do too much trade with us to just show us the middle finger. It was the one card we always had in our favour. There are thousands of companies in the EU that depend on trade with us. Many of these are in countries with high unemployment rates. They are in countries that already take money out of the EU.

But now isn't a time to celebrate yet. There is a long way to go. We have those that say only out is out. And we also have those who want to remain and nothing else. Will they be happy with a middle of the road approach?

Norway involved freedom of movement and you don’t like that.

FOM is one of the 4 pillars that are not negotiable. No point in a meeting. No other country is bothered about freedom of movement anyway. Juncker was right to point that out.

 

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[martcov]

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We don't have a deal. Cabinet has agreed a frame work for withdrawal.
I doubt it will get in front of the EU as the terms appear to me to be unacceptable to the DUP and in all likelihood hard line Brexiteers.

Rees Mogg is in charge, and he has written to his supporters asking them to revolt against the deal. May has implied that there is no guarantee of Brexit if she loses. Referendum?

 

[martcov]

Remain in the EU doesn't seem to be an option.

Another referendum doesn't seem to be an option.

So what is your thoughts on making this shitfest become something that is acceptable to all sides?

Remain could be an option if there is a referendum, which is implied by May saying that they have to accept the deal.

Let’s hope for remain being an option in the referendum, should it happen. Back to the status quo on trade, but with a real end to austerity and a real investment in the areas that were losing out on the UK‘s wealth distribution. That being the real problem, not the EU.

Whatever happens will be unpopular, but with remain we don’t have to wreck the economy in the shortterm for unknown, not guaranteed, blessings in the future.

 

[Astute]

We don't have a deal. Cabinet has agreed a frame work for withdrawal.
I doubt it will get in front of the EU as the terms appear to me to be unacceptable to the DUP and in all likelihood hard line Brexiteers.

It will be agreed by the EU. Can't see that being a problem. I can see it being a problem here though as so many people want so many different things to happen.

 

[clint van damme]

Rees Mogg is in charge, and he has written to his supporters asking them to revolt against the deal. May has implied that there is no guarantee of Brexit if she loses. Referendum?

Wonder if they'll get enough letters for a leadership challenge?

 

[clint van damme]

It will be agreed by the EU. Can't see that being a problem. I can see it being a problem here though as so many people want so many different things to happen.

I think you're right the EU would go for it but I don't see it getting that far.

 

[Astute]

Norway involved freedom of movement and you don’t like that.

FOM is one of the 4 pillars that are not negotiable. No point in a meeting. No other country is bothered about freedom of movement anyway. Juncker was right to point that out.

Who said I don't like freedom of movement?

What I have said is I see the problems it brings. The same problems you deny or find someone who isn't EU to blame. I understand why people are against freedom of movement.

If you tried looking past your own opinion you would understand. But you never will.

 

[Astute]

I think you're right the EU would go for it but I don't see it getting that far.

It will all be down to the details we don't have a clue about. Will it be over 50% that need to say yes?

If so it could come down to accept the deal or hard Brexit. Because neither side will follow what their leader says. I will put my money on whichever result has the biggest odds.

 

[martcov]

Who said I don't like freedom of movement?

What I have said is I see the problems it brings. The same problems you deny or find someone who isn't EU to blame. I understand why people are against freedom of movement.

If you tried looking past your own opinion you would understand. But you never will.

You said ages ago „it’s just wrong“.

You constantly blame everything from housing to schools to roads .. on the EU and FOM. Even when Romanians look for a better life you say that it ruins the country. Just negative.

Yes, there are problems, but FOM has created more positives than negatives and most countries see that. You don’t.

 

[martcov]

It will all be down to the details we don't have a clue about. Will it be over 50% that need to say yes?

If so it could come down to accept the deal or hard Brexit. Because neither side will follow what their leader says. I will put my money on whichever result has the biggest odds.

Accept the deal or hard Brexit, and/or GE or referendum with remain as an option.

 

[martcov]

I think you're right the EU would go for it but I don't see it getting that far.

The EU will accept Barnier‘s recommendations and Guy has already praised it as the representative of the EU parliament. From the EU‘s POV trade will go on and their member state, ROI, will accept it as a solution to the border problem. If Rees Mogg can come up with a technical solution, as he claims is possible, then that could alter the border solution. He won’t because there isn’t one.

 

[martcov]

Remain in the EU doesn't seem to be an option.

Another referendum doesn't seem to be an option.

So what is your thoughts on making this shitfest become something that is acceptable to all sides?

Theresa May admits Brexit can be stopped by new referendum as cabinet back draft EU deal

 

[SkyblueBazza]

as usual you've totally missed the point.

If I have then you should not be so convoluted in making your point...if you want to be understood. Or perhaps you have missed mine?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[clint van damme]

If I have then you should not be so convoluted in making your point...if you want to be understood. Or perhaps you have missed mine?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

convoluted? That conversation with Astute lasted about 2 posts each.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Accept the deal or hard Brexit, and/or GE or referendum with remain as an option.

We had a vote and remain lost.

Cut it out.

 

[Sick Boy]

We had a vote and remain lost.

Cut it out.

It's not really how living in a democracy works though, is it? If there's demand for one then there should be one.

For the record I can see problems it would cause, which is why I think the EEA would be a meeting in the middle of sorts. It was originally pit across as hard-leavers as an option when they weren't so confident of getting a result.

 

[Captain Dart]

can't recall anyone saying Brexit would lead to world war 3.

Over egging the point maybe but a fear of conflict in Europe was raised by remain campaign as a potential consequence of leaving the EU.
Brexit could endanger peace - Cameron
David Cameron: Brexit could lead to Europe descending into war
Is David Cameron right that leaving EU could increase the risk of war?

 

[Captain Dart]

Some suggestion is she may be gone by tonight

First ministerial resignation came this morning.

 

[skybluetony176]

Who said I don't like freedom of movement?

Beep beep beep. Attention, this opinion is reversing. Beep beep beep...

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I can see why both sides of the argument wouldn't be happy with this. It seems to me the 'deal' just basically keeps us in and kills a lot of the benefits. It doesn't really make sense.

I've always said following the vote that Brexit should be given a genuine chance to succeed, and the only way for this to happen would to give it a proper go. If the situation wasn't good 10/20 years down the line then I would accept there could be an argument to join again.

As it stands though, I don't feel that this is giving it a proper go. Maybe that's just me. I think this is probably far from over.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It's not really how living in a democracy works though, is it? If there's demand for one then there should be one.

For the record I can see problems it would cause, which is why I think the EEA would be a meeting in the middle of sorts. It was originally pit across as hard-leavers as an option when they weren't so confident of getting a result.

But who is saying there is demand for one? Remain voters saying there should be another vote because there has been a mood change isn't fair.

It's like a team that's just conceded a penalty asking the referee to reconsider, but then saying the other team didn't want the penalty.

I totally see your point, but I just don't think it stands here. Maybe in a few years time yes, but not now.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Dominic Raab has resigned. Tory voters have got a lot to answer for electing this rabble.

 

[Captain Dart]

I think voting for it is more likely to finish them as it would move Northern Ireland much closer to the South and that ultimately could mean a united Ireland. Personally I think they’re on life support anyway. To many people have enjoyed piece to listen to their antiquated politics, too many people want pro choice for women, too many people want equal rights for LGBT and they look to the south and see it happening.

Vote numbers for Unionist and non-Unionist are close.
So no way will DUP/UUP risk a referendum, but I should think they'll still command a majority at the moment.
I suspect some laws will be liberalised in the next decade.

Party..... Seats......... Votes
DUP........... 10.......... 292,316
Sinn Féin.... 7............ 238,915
SDLP........... 0............. 95,419
UUP............. 0............. 83,280

Simplistic and not really true as the SDLP has mostly been more popular than SF. Likewise the UUP have mostly achieved more votes than the DUP. Both more moderate.

Not really, see above!

They DUP are dinosaurs, no idea how anyone living in the 21C can vote for them.

To be fair they're a bit too liberal for Saudi etc.

 

[Sick Boy]

May isn't going to last long, can see there being a GE soon with Corbyn getting in

 

[Sick Boy]

Vote numbers for Unionist and non-Unionist are close.
So no way will DUP/UUP risk a referendum, but I should think they'll still command a majority at the moment.
I suspect some laws will be liberalised in the next decade.

Party..... Seats......... Votes
DUP........... 10.......... 292,316
Sinn Féin.... 7............ 238,915
SDLP........... 0............. 95,419
UUP............. 0............. 83,280


To be fair they're a bit too liberal for Saudi etc.

It makes me laugh that they demand parity with Great Britain, yet they reject our views on abortion, gay rights etc. It's shocking that this is part of the UK in the 21C.

 

[skybluetony176]

Two Brexit secretaries and one PM do da do da...

 

[clint van damme]

Dominic Raab has resigned. Tory voters have got a lot to answer for electing this rabble.

I read this morning he has designs on becoming PM.
The Brexit secretary who last week said he didn't realise how busy the Dover- Calais trading route was, you couldn't make it up.

 

[clint van damme]

Vote numbers for Unionist and non-Unionist are close.
So no way will DUP/UUP risk a referendum, but I should think they'll still command a majority at the moment.
I suspect some laws will be liberalised in the next decade.

Party..... Seats......... Votes
DUP........... 10.......... 292,316
Sinn Féin.... 7............ 238,915
SDLP........... 0............. 95,419
UUP............. 0............. 83,280


Not really, see above!


To be fair they're a bit too liberal for Saudi etc.

I get your point, but I think a border in the Irish sea is more unpalatable to them.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

cabinet were initially on board with chequers then resignations followed. I suspect cabinet view will change significantly over coming days.
Once the full details of the deal start to get scrutinised I reckon those MPs who support it will come under huge pressure to reject this halfway house cock up.

Correct decision by Raab. good man, well done.
others to follow. Goodbye May.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Coventry City, Brexit, Wasps.

Is my life in a pantomime?

 

[Captain Dart]

I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility for the UK to negotiate some sort of cap on net migration above a certain number/depending on economic conditions. That would be easier to sell to the public.

Cameron tried that and was told to f off.

 

[clint van damme]

Cameron tried that and was told to f off.

we might never have been where we are if he'd managed to win that concession,
On the brink of economic disaster, (no deal), or civil war (no Breixt). What a fucking shambles.

 

[skybluetony176]

I get your point, but I think a border in the Irish sea is more unpalatable to them.

They’re between a rock and a hard place. Brexit puts them in a very precious position whatever the deal. The DUP’s undoing will be their prehistoric views on gay and women’s rights. This may lead to a resurgence in UUP votes, it may also lead to a drop in votes from the Protestant community, it may just possibly may lead to a rise in Sinn Fein votes from the Protestant community. I have a cousin who is right at the forefront of the women’s rights campaigns both north and south of the border, she’s fully intending on voting Sinn Fein because from her point of view a united ireland would be progress. She’s a child of the peace process and despite both her parents being serving RUC officers and her father only just retiring from the PSNI she doesn’t look at Sinn Fein through the same eyes previous generations do. If there’s a general election Northern Irish politics could be in for a major shift, especially in border communities, with women and the LGBT communities. I don’t know that for sure but that’s my gut feeling.

 

[Grendel]

May isn't going to last long, can see there being a GE soon with Corbyn getting in

How will there be a general election?

 

[Captain Dart]

The money taken from my salary to pay off the £35k of student debt isn't enough to pay off the interest never mind the loans. The 2008 recession was the worst since 1929 and happened just as I went off to university. I graduated 5 years after that with a 1st class Masters and industrial experience but nobody was hiring. As for climate change it has gone on steroids in the past few decades despite there being far more evidence than there was for those around in the industrial revolution. Oh, and let's not forget the long list of failed military interventions. And the tremendous shit show that constitutes Brexit.

Instead the government denies young people a living wage, takes away maintenance grants and EMA, and refuses to fund education in line with inflation.

Your problem seems to be that it isn't getting obviously better for you rather than it is actually hard, believe me your generation has it easy & my generation had it easy compared to my parents. Your perspective is skewed.