The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (253 Viewers)

Astute · Dec 9, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Apologies, still in a bad mood from yesterday.

My issue, and I’m sure others who aren’t pro-Brexit, is that you only ever challenge one side. Remain voters have been verbally abused and you’ve said nothing, which is why it’s hard to take you neutral claims seriously

Apologies accepted. Know exactly how you feel.

But look back. I am constantly given abuse on here. Would you defend someone who is constantly giving you abuse? And I get plenty off a few. All I try to do is put the other side to everything. I have never said Brexit is good or bad. There is good and bad depending on your views of it.

Even now I am not sure if we are better off in or out as a whole. Yes the trade is important to us. But it isn't just us it is important to. Why do we have to pay so much just to trade?

Is the EU safe for the future? I'm not saying that it isn't. But the problems are building up. Is it better off getting out now or risk being in if and when it goes wrong?

The May deal is shite. Leavers don't want it. Remainers don't want it. I would prefer to cancel the whole thing than go ahead with it. Maybe that is the design of it. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

It would be good if we could see into the future. It would be good if those running countries in the EU had a bigger say in what happens. The EU needs to reform very quickly. But there seems to be no rush. Now Macron is in trouble. He has been saying that it needs reform. He is on thin ice. But if he goes does France go right wing? It is a scary thought.

Astute · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
Mart didn’t of course. So he was right about you putting words into people’s mouths.

martcov said:
Yes, the UK‘s best for 2 months and Eurozone‘s worst since 2016. caused largely by Italy‘s populists falling out with the EU over their budget.

Yes Mart. You didn't try and blame it on Italy.

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Astute said:
Yes Mart. You didn't try and blame it on Italy.

Blame what on Italy? The average is lowered because of countries like Italy. Italy‘s situation is not helped by a dispute about their budget

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Astute said:
Yes Mart. You didn't try and blame it on Italy.

Do you want to dispute elementary mathematics? You know how average is calculated.

Astute · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
Do you want to dispute elementary mathematics? You know how average is calculated.

You would love me to be as thick as you make out.

As you know it was every country separately. It wasn't all of them lumped together and an average taken. Or like I said as we are still in the EU it would have made ours worse and not better.

But hey ho. Nice try to make it look like you didn't say what you did. Especially as you stated you never said it

Grendel · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
No, I saying the UK isn’t in the Eurozone and that Italy‘s negative performance lowers the average performance of the Eurozone which has been ok since 2016.

I would like to see your workings on that one and how Italy is a major factor in the average

Grendel · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
Do you want to dispute elementary mathematics? You know how average is calculated.

How did you calculate the average?

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Grendel said:
I would like to see your workings on that one and how Italy is a major factor in the average

Italy is not a major factor, but a factor.

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Grendel said:
How did you calculate the average?

I didn’t. Someone else did and pointed out that Italy had become negative because of the dispute about their budget. Do you dispute this? Have you done your own calculations and come to a different conclusion? And no, Italy is not the only factor.

Grendel · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
Yes, the UK‘s best for 2 months and Eurozone‘s worst since 2016. caused largely by Italy‘s populists falling out with the EU over their budget.

Oh dear

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Grendel said:
Oh dear

Caused largely and not exclusively

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Astute said:
You would love me to be as thick as you make out.

As you know it was every country separately. It wasn't all of them lumped together and an average taken. Or like I said as we are still in the EU it would have made ours worse and not better.

But hey ho. Nice try to make it look like you didn't say what you did. Especially as you stated you never said it

„The reading was 51.8 for the eurozone, its lowest since August 2016.“

What were you saying about you being thick?

The Eurozone is 20 countries. If one figure is used, then it is an average for the Eurozone or else it would be a list of individual Eurozone countries.

I repeat, we are not in the Eurozone, which is why we are being compared to the average of the Eurozone as an indicator. I am aware that we are in the EU.

The average will be lowered if individual countries are not doing as well. Italy is one such country because of it’s dispute caused by it’s populist government.

Do you understand now?

Grendel · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
Caused largely and not exclusively

No not caused largely at all. Can you show me your calculations please?

Grendel · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
„The reading was 51.8 for the eurozone, its lowest since August 2016.“

What were you saying about you being thick?

The Eurozone is 20 countries. If one figure is used, then it is an average for the Eurozone or else it would be a list of individual Eurozone countries.

I repeat, we are not in the Eurozone, which is why we are being compared to the average of the Eurozone as an indicator. I am aware that we are in the EU.

The average will be lowered if individual countries are not doing as well. Italy is one such country because of it’s dispute caused by it’s populist government.

Do you understand now?

No it makes no sense

Calcs please

Astute · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
Yes, the UK‘s best for 2 months and Eurozone‘s worst since 2016. caused largely by Italy‘s populists falling out with the EU over their budget.

martcov said:
Italy is not a major factor, but a factor.

Caused largely but not a major factor?

Why can't you just hold your hand up and admit that you are wrong/been caught out for once? We would then have a chance of having a proper debate instead of correcting your nonsense all the time.

Or is that what your plan is?

Astute · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
„The reading was 51.8 for the eurozone, its lowest since August 2016.“

What were you saying about you being thick?

The Eurozone is 20 countries. If one figure is used, then it is an average for the Eurozone or else it would be a list of individual Eurozone countries.

I repeat, we are not in the Eurozone, which is why we are being compared to the average of the Eurozone as an indicator. I am aware that we are in the EU.

The average will be lowered if individual countries are not doing as well. Italy is one such country because of it’s dispute caused by it’s populist government.

Do you understand now?

Thanks for the laugh. I needed it after yesterday.

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Astute said:
Caused largely but not a major factor?

Why can't you just hold your hand up and admit that you are wrong/been caught out for once? We would then have a chance of having a proper debate instead of correcting your nonsense all the time.

Or is that what your plan is?

Will you admit that the figures were an average? Will you admit that Italy‘s figures drag the average down? No. I didn’t think so.

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Astute said:
Thanks for the laugh. I needed it after yesterday.

I take that as a no.

Grendel · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
Will you admit that the figures were an average? Will you admit that Italy‘s figures drag the average down? No. I didn’t think so.

Can you supply the analysis to prove this please?

Astute · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
Will you admit that the figures were an average? Will you admit that Italy‘s figures drag the average down? No. I didn’t think so.

Still truth twisting I see.

Some of us work for a living and can't be on here 24 hours a day to reply to your false information.

Yes the average is down to 51.8 But try reading past this. It isn't an average that brings down the German manufacturing output to their worse for 31 months. It is German manufacturing output itself. That is longer than the average used. The same for France. And Italy is at their worse for nearly 4 years. Nothing to do with averages. But they will have brought the average down. So the stronger economies are not doing as well however much you twist it.

Britain's manufacturing sector booms as the eurozone's stutters | This is Money

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Astute said:
Still truth twisting I see.

Some of us work for a living and can't be on here 24 hours a day to reply to your false information.

Yes the average is down to 51.8 But try reading past this. It isn't an average that brings down the German manufacturing output to their worse for 31 months. It is German manufacturing output itself. That is longer than the average used. The same for France. And Italy is at their worse for nearly 4 years. Nothing to do with averages. But they will have brought the average down. So the stronger economies are not doing as well however much you twist it.

Britain's manufacturing sector booms as the eurozone's stutters | This is Money

„Nothing to do with averages. But they will have brought the average down.“ Quite.

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Grendel said:
Can you supply the analysis to prove this please?

I cannot be arsed to find the calculations for the figure in Astute‘s link. Google it.

Grendel · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
I cannot be arsed to find the calculations for the figure in Astute‘s link. Google it.

I have there are no calculations so again please explain your rationale

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Grendel said:
I have there are no calculations so again please explain your rationale

I already have. Basic maths. How‘s the Great Brexit Betrayal March coming along?

Here another Bannon quote to win you another pint:
John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, said:
"A newly energised, well funded network of hate is emerging, from Steve Bannon in the US to the former EDL leader Tommy Robinson at home, and it threatens the very fabric of our nation ...it doesn’t matter whether you voted leave or remain, Tommy Robinson doesn’t represent you."

Enjoy.

Grendel · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
I already have. Basic maths. How‘s the Great Brexit Betrayal March coming along?

Here another Bannon quote to win you another pint:
John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, said:
"A newly energised, well funded network of hate is emerging, from Steve Bannon in the US to the former EDL leader Tommy Robinson at home, and it threatens the very fabric of our nation ...it doesn’t matter whether you voted leave or remain, Tommy Robinson doesn’t represent you."

Enjoy.

Can you explain the basic maths and the numbers behind it?

Cheers

Astute · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
„Nothing to do with averages. But they will have brought the average down.“ Quite.

So you don't understand that the stronger economies not doing as good as expected has lowered the average for all the countries?

OK Mart.

Try explaining how Germany doing worse for a long time is only because of the averages. Explain how France doing the worse for ages is down to the averages.

You can't. But you continue to try and twist the truth. Is it to stop us from having a proper debate or can't you bring yourself to admit that you are wrong as usual?

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Grendel said:
Can you explain the basic maths and the numbers behind it?

Cheers

What, the march?

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Astute said:
So you don't understand that the stronger economies not doing as good as expected has lowered the average for all the countries?

OK Mart.

Try explaining how Germany doing worse for a long time is only because of the averages. Explain how France doing the worse for ages is down to the averages.

You can't. But you continue to try and twist the truth. Is it to stop us from having a proper debate or can't you bring yourself to admit that you are wrong as usual?

No, I don’t. Countries not doing well lower the average. Germany has gone down but is in plus. Italy is in minus. 50 is the bench mark. So how am I wrong? Italy is particularly hit because of it’s dispute.

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Astute said:
So you don't understand that the stronger economies not doing as good as expected has lowered the average for all the countries?

OK Mart.

Try explaining how Germany doing worse for a long time is only because of the averages. Explain how France doing the worse for ages is down to the averages.

You can't. But you continue to try and twist the truth. Is it to stop us from having a proper debate or can't you bring yourself to admit that you are wrong as usual?

France third quarter did better than expected, but others didn’t. Not all are down and there are specific reasons for some slow downs. Here is a report which may help you understand:

Euro Area Economic Outlook | Data, Statistics & Forecasts | FocusEconomics

Grendel · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
What, the march?

Man you are embarrassing yourself

Grendel · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
France third quarter did better than expected, but others didn’t. Not all are down and there are specific reasons for some slow downs. Here is a report which may help you understand:

Euro Area Economic Outlook | Data, Statistics & Forecasts | FocusEconomics

That’s not even using the same statistical base point

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Grendel said:
Man you are embarrassing yourself

Good coming from you.

Grendel · Dec 9, 2018

martcov said:
Good coming from you.

Which country actually had the biggest impact on the averages

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Grendel said:
That’s not even using the same statistical base point

Is it relevant? Does it explain a couple of specific reasons? Yes. Am I going to interrupt my evening to split hairs? No.

martcov · Dec 9, 2018

Grendel said:
Which country actually had the biggest impact on the averages

I suspect Germany, but that is supposed to be temporary.

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