The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (52 Viewers)

[martcov]

The Sun
Daily Mail
Telegraph

To name but a few and the BBC isn’t anti Brexit- both sides often complain it is biased, which means it is probably doing an okay job
I don’t find Sky to be particularity anti Brexit either

It’s more Brexit. Government policy.

 

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[martcov]

Yep its all a conspiracy to scupper it I think..........The mainstream media are wetting themselves over a new vote and the EU creeps are bending over backwards to force it down that road......still thankfully its nice to know that in the future in the UK that democracy is now a sham and that if we scream loud and long enough we shall be able to overturn almost any vote !

It took over 40 years of lies, screaming, blaming to get this far, and now look at the mess we are in. We were supposed to be sailing into the sunset, but managed to hit a rock whilst still in the Harbour.

 

[Ashdown]

The sovereign parliament was elected by the people. The majority of people are now for remain according to polls. The high point for leave was 2,5 years ago. Now you are saying that parliament is also for remain. The will of the people, Volkswillen, is obviously not for leave. More BS from you.

Thanks for that William !

 

[martcov]

It is the UK parliament that has a clear remain majority that wants to subvert the will of the people. The ECJ is easing the way for them.

That’s democracy. We have a sovereign parliament. You missed that in your calculations.

 

[Ashdown]

It took over 40 years of lies, screaming, blaming to get this far, and now look at the mess we are in. We were supposed to be sailing into the sunset, but managed to hit a rock whilst still in the Harbour.

We ?....do actually still get to vote on OUR issues ?

 

[martcov]

He can vote in council elections, not general or referendum. Assuming that he hasn’t become a British citizen since he’s been here.

He’ll lose that right if we leave.

 

[martcov]

We ?....do actually still get to vote on OUR issues ?

Our parliament does. Always has, apart from things like the curvature of bananas.

 

[clint van damme]

May has delayed the vote and possibly cancelled it, more bad news for anyone who values parliamentary sovereignty. If it's just delaying what is that going to do, the agreement is never going to get through.
If she cancels it she's finished surely? . What a fucking mess.

 

[martcov]

Not many hours though, is it.

No. Not at the moment. It’s seasonal.

 

[martcov]

May has delayed the vote and possibly cancelled it, more bad news for anyone who values parliamentary sovereignty. If it's just delaying what is that going to do, the agreement is never going to get through.
If she cancels it she's finished surely? . What a fucking mess.

Disagree on that. Good news for parliamentary sovereignty. Even it is a mess. Parliament is deciding. If the people don’t like it they will get to vote the government out. Hopefully we/ you will get a GE to give this mess back to the people, or a second referendum. The fact that this is being debated and all sides are chipping in is democracy. Arguments are being put forward and discussed. Rightly so. The government will be held to account.

Either the deal, which can be read and studied, gets accepted, or it doesn’t.

Better than a yes/ no referendum.

 

[Captain Dart]

despite attempts by a poster on here earlier to claim that the EU is on the back foot, May has cancelled the vote, according to reports

Daily Mirror political editor says...

 

[Sick Boy]

May has delayed the vote and possibly cancelled it, more bad news for anyone who values parliamentary sovereignty. If it's just delaying what is that going to do, the agreement is never going to get through.
If she cancels it she's finished surely? . What a fucking mess.

Yeah it’s a disgrace she can even do it, it goes to show how weak the country and her government is in all of this

 

[clint van damme]

Disagree on that. Good news for parliamentary sovereignty. Even it is a mess. Parliament is deciding. If the people don’t like it they will get to vote the government out. Hopefully we/ you will get a GE to give this mess back to the people, or a second referendum. The fact that this is being debated and all sides are chipping in is democracy. Arguments are being put forward and discussed. Rightly so. The government will be held to account.

Either the deal, which can be read and studied, gets accepted, or it doesn’t.

Better than a yes/ no referendum.

but parliament isn't deciding if they don't vote. The vote has to be carried out now, surely?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It wouldn't be subverting the will of the people if the will of the people has changed though, would it. It would be a sovereign democracy following the will of the people.
Remember that Theresa May had no issue with asking the public to vote again when she thought it would benefit her. 763 days between the last two general elections. The "blemished" referendum was 900 days ago.

Yep people can’t subvert the will of be people they can only express an alternative view. Biggest crock in the whole debate this will of the people nonsense

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Rumour has it they can’t cancel the vote without a huge argument. Have been saying all week they should have called it off when it became obvious it wasn’t going to be voted through and have spent he debating time coming up with some answers

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Piss up in a brewery

 

[Ccfcsj]

Can the vote at the top of this page be re-ran? It'd be interesting to see if people's views have shifted on here.

 

[martcov]

but parliament isn't deciding if they don't vote. The vote has to be carried out now, surely?

The vote will be a disaster and the numbers are known in advance as most parties/ MPs have said which way they will vote. So, if she can’t get anything changed it’s back to the people or a vote of no confidence and a GE. Parliament has snookered itself and the most likely way out is to give it back to the people. In that sense you are right, but there was a parliamentary debate on a tangible proposal rather than a binary question in a referendum. Parliament is actually doing it’s job now, but under abnormal circumstances. The failure was not May‘s deal, but Cameron‘s gamble with an advisory referendum. A proper referendum should have had a qualified majority and should fall under strict electoral laws. The referendum has damaged our sovereign parliament by being an alternative source of power in this instance.

 

[clint van damme]

Rumour has it they can’t cancel the vote without a huge argument. Have been saying all week they should have called it off when it became obvious it wasn’t going to be voted through and have spent he debating time coming up with some answers

just read that, hot on the heels of the government being found in contempt of parliament as well.
What an unadulterated shambles.

 

[clint van damme]

The failure was not May‘s deal, but Cameron‘s gamble with an advisory referendum. A proper referendum should have had a qualified majority and should fall under strict electoral laws. The referendum has damaged our sovereign parliament by being an alternative source of power in this instance.

agree on that. History won't be kind to the pig head fucking, villa supporting Bullingdon boy.

 

[martcov]

Yep people can’t subvert the will of be people they can only express an alternative view. Biggest crock in the whole debate this will of the people nonsense

The „will of the people“ was used by Nazi Germany. As were referenda. The Nazi Referenda came out with nearly 100% votes ( not so unusal in a dictatorship), and they then claimed will of the people. There was some justification ( not in how they were conducted) in the claim. Even they would have had problems trying to spin 52% as the will of the people. East Germany votes were also massive landslides ( totally corrupt) in order to claim will of the people. No one would bother rigging a vote to come out with 52% as will of the people. It obviously isn’t. It is the will of just over half of the people... if you want to use that rhetoric.

 

[Grendel]

The sovereign parliament was elected by the people. The majority of people are now for remain according to polls. The high point for leave was 2,5 years ago. Now you are saying that parliament is also for remain. The will of the people, Volkswillen, is obviously not for leave. More BS from you.

And again if it changed in 6 months we’d must have a third referendum

 

[skybluetony176]

The Sun
Daily Mail
Telegraph

To name but a few and the BBC isn’t anti Brexit- both sides often complain it is biased, which means it is probably doing an okay job
I don’t find Sky to be particularity anti Brexit either

A pro leave panellists on question time the other week tried to claim that question time is pro remain because there was one more remainer on that weeks panel. Dimbleby as sharp as ever quoted him the numbers of pro leave to pro remain panellists since the referendum and it was very much in favour of leave. The assumption that the BBC is pro remain is one for the conspiracy theorists.

 

[Grendel]

Disagree on that. Good news for parliamentary sovereignty. Even it is a mess. Parliament is deciding. If the people don’t like it they will get to vote the government out. Hopefully we/ you will get a GE to give this mess back to the people, or a second referendum. The fact that this is being debated and all sides are chipping in is democracy. Arguments are being put forward and discussed. Rightly so. The government will be held to account.

Either the deal, which can be read and studied, gets accepted, or it doesn’t.

Better than a yes/ no referendum.

If the bill cannot go through parliament it should be

Do you want this deal?
Do you want to leave but another deal?
Do you want to remain?
Do you want to remain but with improved terms from the EU?

 

[martcov]

If the bill cannot go through parliament it should be

Do you want this deal?
Do you want to leave but another deal?
Do you want to remain?
Do you want to remain but with improved terms from the EU?

And then probably a run off between the 2 most popular if not one gets a majority.

 

[skybluetony176]

Any second referendum should be Canada + or Norway +. The plus being the stuff needed for the Irish Border and protection of the GFA.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It wouldn't be subverting the will of the people if the will of the people has changed though, would it. It would be a sovereign democracy following the will of the people.
Remember that Theresa May had no issue with asking the public to vote again when she thought it would benefit her. 763 days between the last two general elections. The "blemished" referendum was 900 days ago.

What did you vote last time, and what would you vote next time?

Let me guess...

Remain and Remain.

 

[martcov]

And again if it changed in 6 months we’d must have a third referendum

Not really, because we would not be in a crisis stuck in grid lock not sure which way to go. There would be no discussion about frictionless trade or uncertainty about all other trade deals. The pound and stock markets would recover and life would go on. Obviously, the biggest challenge would be to redress the legimate complaints of those „left behind“, something not on Davis‘, Johnson‘s or Rees Mogg‘s to do list. There is a lot to do in Britain, casting off into the unknown, or rather trying to, has put these things to the back of the list. I doubt whether the poorest in Britain have noticed anything so far, and I cannot see them getting any benefits in the short term with the deal May has, or deregulated capitalism. When you look who is behind the think tanks and leave donations, it is obvious where Brexit would be going if they could get it through.

 

[martcov]

Any second referendum should be Canada + or Norway +. The plus being the stuff needed for the Irish Border and protection of the GFA.

Should include.. because there are loads of people against both. And they haven’t been put into writing and been subject to the same scrutiny by parliament as May‘s deal.

 

[clint van damme]

Not really, because we would not be in a crisis stuck in grid lock not sure which way to go. There would be no discussion about frictionless trade or uncertainty about all other trade deals. The pound and stock markets would recover and life would go on. Obviously, the biggest challenge would be to redress the legimate complaints of those „left behind“, something not on Davis‘, Johnson‘s or Rees Mogg‘s to do list. There is a lot to do in Britain, casting off into the unknown, or rather trying to, has put these things to the back of the list. I doubt whether the poorest in Britain have noticed anything so far, and I cannot see them getting any benefits in the short term with the deal May has, or deregulated capitalism. When you look who is behind the think tanks and leave donations, it is obvious where Brexit would be going if they could get it through.

the notion that these pair are motivated by what's best for everyone in the country would be hilarious if it wasn't so frightening that people fall for that bullshit.

I didn't include Davis because even though he is a hopeless cretin who's woefully out of his depth I don't think he's an evil fucker like that pair.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I was fairly prepared to accept a half hearted Brexit to account for the large minority that lost, but if this doesn't even come off then I hope we just go for a full no deal Brexit.

If there is no Brexit at all then I can see a Paris style situation going on. All faith in democracy will be gone.

 

[Captain Dart]

Piss up in a brewery

 

[clint van damme]

I was fairly prepared to accept a half hearted Brexit to account for the large minority that lost, but if this doesn't even come off then I hope we just go for a full no deal Brexit.

If there is no Brexit at all then I can see a Paris style situation going on. All faith in democracy will be gone.

HAHA! You're probably right, and as I prepared myself for the impending economic meltdown one bright spark would be watching a load of fucking halfwits lead by the gammon division of the shop mobility battalion kicking off over it!

 

[skybluetony176]

If Brexit does get cancelled what’s the odds on Rees-Mogg closing his newly opened Hedge Fund office in Dublin?