Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Peter Lilley's 30 positive Brexit points.
some aren’t positives and some are not factual
Peter Lilley's 30 positive Brexit points.
Peter Lilley's 30 positive Brexit points.
Peter Lilley's 30 positive Brexit points.
Yep, but somehow in this distopian, Orwellian nightmare that another referendum, somehow, is ‘undemocratic’ and those arguing for another referendum are neo-Stalinist!
The fact that they are scared of it shows how far public opinion has shifted. If Brexit was rolling along nicely they would be arguing for a clear mandate and agreeing to a second referendum.
We can’t use opinion polls anymore, referendums are undemocratic, unless we give them the option of ‘no deal’ or May’s Deal - Brexit or... Brexit - and in spite of changing public opinion, pressing on with a no deal Brexit if May’s deal is rejected is the democratic thing to do.
But, we’re the Stalinists to suggest a second referendum with the option of Remaining...
A few people need to look up Stalin and Stalinism as they throw it around in the same way lefties throw around the term Nazi for anyone right of the centre.
It’s amusing to be dismissed as ‘lacking credibility’ and patronised because I’m 24, yet an essay I wrote in 2015 has been pretty accurate so far. But what do I know? I’m just
a dumb kid.
Correct. There are people that voted remain. They didn't have a clue what the EU is like or how it is run. They now know.My dad voted Leave then the day after said he'd made a mistake. We can all throw around anecdotes...
Are you saying Germany is doing well so the rest of the EU is doing well? You are even wrong on Germany doing well. But let's forget about that point.Yes I see Germany heading for another year with a budget surplus that is so large they don't know what to do with it all. Still we know best, Britannia rules the waves etc etc can't get a train to run on time can't negotiate anything etc etc
Maybe if the EU didn't lend money to countries and companies outside the EU to take manufacturing jobs away from the UK...........Maybe if we manufactured things rather than put all our eggs into a service economy in London we wouldn't need to rely on their goods...
Credibility?Whichever way you spin it, it appears the public opinion is turning against Brexit. Be it 54% or 64%, depending on circumstance, it seems fundamentally wrong to drag the public through the Brexit process without another say in the matter. Pollsters will track public opinion, that’s their job. It’s asked the public questions and the results are their findings.
Don’t proceed to lecture me on credibility when you constantly present half truths with very little, if any evidence.
So you don't want another referendum that could make the process last a very long time and cause even more division?No I didn't see it. I never cared much for or against the EU which is why I find the fanaticism on either side but especially Leave hard to understand. I would rather stay but if it must be between Theresa and no deal then I'd prefer the former.
Just want it over and done with.
Lies again Mart I see.We discussed it before. You said „it’s just wrong“.
Peter Lilley's 30 positive Brexit points.
The UK has just had yet another month of record employment.In Germany we have the highest number of employed since reunification. That’s a number.
The worry is the car industry because of the Diesel scandal.
Like saying that at least 64% would vote remain if there was another referendum?I was taught to not make sweeping statements at GCSE level — that’s the bedrock of your arguments.
Like saying that at least 64% would vote remain if there was another referendum?
Maybe if the EU didn't lend money to countries and companies outside the EU to take manufacturing jobs away from the UK...........
The UK has just had yet another month of record employment.
So Germany is having a problem and just because of the diesel scandal that the EU let them get away with as long as it could? I thought you said that the 20,000 jobs lost in the German car industry if we leave without a deal wouldn't be a problem.
Isn't it strange that the UK is the only country that will have major problems.
It’s a nonsense sound byte from the guardian
The poll actually shows 54 vs 46
This is identical to the position at the start of the last referendum. Given that apparently we now know what Brexit means it’s interesting that the gap is no different than before and a 5% swing would deliver the same result again
He conveniently ignores also the fact that all major industrial leaders believe a second referendum could be high risk and equally as damaging as just leaving with no deal as the markets would react very negatively - it’s very possible the result would be the same
What if course he wants is a referendum which is this deal or stay. Apparantly the electorate cannot cope with more than 2 questions on a referendum ballot
In the end any referendum has to allow the leave majority an option to leave either by accepting this deal or wanting an alternative.
The truth is remain should not be an option if there were a referendum but a choice of the deal or no deal at all if those were the only alternatives available
The biggest problem for leave is that one demographic of leave voters are literally dying out while a demographic of remain voters is growing on a daily basis as they are coming of voting age. Two and a half years of these changing demographics now so it’s no wonder that leave voters are running scared of a continuation of democracy. Forget opinion polls, forget people who voted in 2016 changing their minds. It’s the change in demographics that has leavers running scared and wanting to stop the clock on democracy.
Markets will react negatively to no deal. Markets will react negatively to a confirmation of Brexit in a referendum
If we scrapped Brexit tomorrow, markets would react positively and the pound would soar.
At least you now admit that the clever money sees Brexit as a disaster.
Haha, sounds great in theory but in reality the majority of these 18 year olds can’t be arsed to vote anyway, as evidenced at the referendum. What was it, a turnout of just 36% of 18-24 year olds? So whilst they shout loudest about injustice, anyone who relies on them actually voting is misguided. And in any case a large proportion of Uni loonies grow out of their daft ideas once they mature and begin to understand the real world.
Like saying that at least 64% would vote remain if there was another referendum?
The pound soaring would be a disaster for many British industries such as Jlr
The devaluation 2 years ago saved many uk industries
That one statement shows how out of your depth you are
We’ve been through this Faragism a thousand times. You could say if the EIB hadn’t lent billions to U.K. firms we would have less jobs. You revert to an 8 million loan which will be repaid shortly as part of a massive project.
Oh yes you did. We spoke about it. You said it wouldn't cause much harm to Germany but would cause us a lot of harm.I don’t know what you are referring to. I have not mentioned 20000 job losses in Germany. I have said from the word go that we will all suffer. The U.K. more than individual EU countries as trade with the EU is a higher percentage than the EU’s trade with the U.K.. ROI being the exception, but they will get EU aid. The EU didn’t let ‚them‘ get away with the Diesel scandal as long as they could. I know leavers that blame the EU for taking action and making motoring more expensive through new technology. The EU cannot win with leavers.
Me moral high ground? No.That’s not what I said. Debate my actual points.
The people polled were largely in favour of Remaining in the EU (54%) and that increased to 64% if May’s Deal was rejected by parliament and we’re faced by no deal. Yourself and others, who reject the premise of the second referendum, cannot claim the moral high ground of abiding to the ‘will of the people’ when public opinion is turning against Brexit. You don’t have a leg to stand on here.
It’s not ironclad, and I’m not predicting the result of another referendum. But these opinion polls are significant and suggests there’s no mandate for a ‘no-deal’ Brexit.
The use of opinion polls is better than the anecdotes some people have come up with. Statistics > anecdotes.
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10...-80m-eu-loan-for-fords-turkish-transit-plant/
How about the truth for once. The EU loaned them 80m so they could take jobs out of the UK. And we had to finance a fair bit of this loan. So because of EU rules we had to help to finance taking manufacturing jobs out of the UK. Yes good news Mart.
Oh yes you did. We spoke about it. You said it wouldn't cause much harm to Germany but would cause us a lot of harm.
Oh yes you did. We spoke about it. You said it wouldn't cause much harm to Germany but would cause us a lot of harm.
Did the EU lend 80m to Turkey to make a factory able to manufacture Transit vans that were made in the UK?The whole story is spin.
Did the EU lend 80m to Turkey to make a factory able to manufacture Transit vans that were made in the UK?
Yes.
So what is the spin?
You are ignoring the point I am making. Just like the other 'we must stay in the EU whichever way we can' posters on here.Anyway, besides that, I find a discussion about how badly off we will all be because of Brexit, a bit weird. I think it confirms what a fxxk up Brexit is whether Germany or the UK suffers more. Everyone involved will suffer at least short term.
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