Astute
Well-Known Member
Would the jobs have gone to Turkey if the EU didn't loan the money?
Would the jobs have gone to Turkey if the EU didn't loan the money?The spin is saying that the EU lent Turkey or Ford money to take away jobs from the UK. It didn't.
Anyway, besides that, I find a discussion about how badly off we will all be because of Brexit, a bit weird. I think it confirms what a fxxk up Brexit is whether Germany or the UK suffers more. Everyone involved will suffer at least short term.
Credibility?
Show me anywhere that says 64% would vote remain if there was another referendum.
Evidence? I give evidence with most things I post. I don't make 64% claims that I can't provide evidence for. How about you?
Would the jobs have gone to Turkey if the EU didn't loan the money?
Anyway, besides that, I find a discussion about how badly off we will all be because of Brexit, a bit weird. I think it confirms what a fxxk up Brexit is whether Germany or the UK suffers more. Everyone involved will suffer at least short term.
You are ignoring the point I am making. Just like the other 'we must stay in the EU whichever way we can' posters on here.
It would be massive for the EU to not make a trade deal with us. But you don't want it said. You just want to make out that it will be Armageddon for us.
The wife has found a house in France and looks like she is going to view it. I will be staying in England as I need to work for a few.more years yet. If Brexit wasn't happening she wouldn't be doing it. 3 of my children will be going with her if we buy it. I don't want Brexit to happen. But that doesn't mean that I should ignore the truth. It doesn't mean that I should chat shite on here. It is going to f¥ck my plans up. I legally can't retire for over 4 years yet. So I will be apart from my family most of the time for over 4 years.
But like I jeep saying I still think there will be some kind of deal that keeps us in the EU. But the wife doesn't want to risk our plans. And she is looking at near the South coast. I won't want to make that journey every week.
Me moral high ground? No.
I constantly pick out false news. Just like you saying that a minimum of 64% would vote to remain. Would you like to show some evidence? After all you say you don't make sweeping statements.
You really have selective amnesia in this discussion, you even tried to tell me to 'read my own source properly'. If you had read past the first paragraph you'd know I'm quoting from a legitimate source. Anyway...
These kinds of polls ask several questions. For the purposes of this debate, I've selected two key findings from this poll, conducted by YouGov which is independent. First, after the details of Theresa May's Brexit deal was published, support for remaining in the EU went up to 54% and leaving the EU had dropped to 46% from August. This shows that the public, knowing what Brexit is looking like, is not as keen on Brexit as it was in 2016.
Given the resistance to May's deal in Parliament, the poll asked voters what they thought of Brexit if May's deal was rejected in Parliament, which leaves the UK at the risk of exiting the EU without a deal, the % of those polled jumped up to 64% in favour of remaining to 36% in favour of still leaving the EU. Also, because Parliament is probably going to reject May's deal, this percentage is significant because the idea that the 2016 referendum meant that the public wanted to leave the EU at all costs is fatally flawed. People who believe that we should reject May's deal and leave the EU without deal just cannot masquerade as people who have the 'will of the people' at heart.
I have never claimed that Remain would get 64% of votes. The post you misquoting me is where I quote the source where it said: ‘If Ms May’s deal is voted down by MPs, that gap widened to 64 per cent to 36 per cent, excluding don’t knows’ which isn't the same thing as saying '64% of people would vote to Remain in a second referendum'. That was the first time you questioned the source, now you've gone full circle and done it again. Stop wasting both our time.
These polls are not perfect, I've never claimed that, but they're important because they gauge public opinion. They're not predicting the outcome of a second referendum and neither have I.
I'll post the link yet again, at least the third time I have done so. Have the decency to debate issues properly.
Brexit poll shows voters back second referendum as Remain takes big lead over Leave
You’ve never said it could be 64% that would vote remain then? That’s odd I think you have - I’ll take look
I also think you previously said opinion polls shouldn’t be used as a basis for referendums - odd as I’m sure you have - I’ll have a look
By the way stop trying to be a condescending c**t.
You haven’t the intellect, knowledge, gravitas or humour to warrant it
Hilarious. ROFL. The insults are already coming out. First the attempt to appear reasonable and intelligent... now it's fxxk that I'll get the insults out.
If he hasn't got these properties, are you implying that you have?
You really have selective amnesia in this discussion, you even tried to tell me to 'read my own source properly'. If you had read past the first paragraph you'd know I'm quoting from a legitimate source. Anyway...
These kinds of polls ask several questions. For the purposes of this debate, I've selected two key findings from this poll, conducted by YouGov which is independent. First, after the details of Theresa May's Brexit deal was published, support for remaining in the EU went up to 54% and leaving the EU had dropped to 46% from August. This shows that the public, knowing what Brexit is looking like, is not as keen on Brexit as it was in 2016.
Given the resistance to May's deal in Parliament, the poll asked voters what they thought of Brexit if May's deal was rejected in Parliament, which leaves the UK at the risk of exiting the EU without a deal, the % of those polled jumped up to 64% in favour of remaining to 36% in favour of still leaving the EU. Also, because Parliament is probably going to reject May's deal, this percentage is significant because the idea that the 2016 referendum meant that the public wanted to leave the EU at all costs is fatally flawed. People who believe that we should reject May's deal and leave the EU without deal just cannot masquerade as people who have the 'will of the people' at heart.
I have never claimed that Remain would get 64% of votes. The post you misquoting me is where I quote the source where it said: ‘If Ms May’s deal is voted down by MPs, that gap widened to 64 per cent to 36 per cent, excluding don’t knows’ which isn't the same thing as saying '64% of people would vote to Remain in a second referendum'. That was the first time you questioned the source, now you've gone full circle and done it again. Stop wasting both our time.
These polls are not perfect, I've never claimed that, but they're important because they gauge public opinion. They're not predicting the outcome of a second referendum and neither have I.
I'll post the link yet again, at least the third time I have done so. Have the decency to debate issues properly.
Brexit poll shows voters back second referendum as Remain takes big lead over Leave
By the way stop trying to be a condescending c**t.
You haven’t the intellect, knowledge, gravitas or humour to warrant it
Yes have the money. Don't need much. Just enough to buy property and some left in bank for wife. I would keep my job until I am 55 then retire. But might have to take up French residency. Not exactly fluent but have been visiting for over 30 years. Would expect to be fluent within 6 months.Good luck with that, unless you’ve got enough money to support you and your family, it’s unlikely you’d be allowed to settle there. Presumably you’re all fluent French speakers too?
You quoted 'at least 64% would vote remain. I pointed it out and said you would make up excuses for saying so. It is the way if this thread.You really have selective amnesia in this discussion, you even tried to tell me to 'read my own source properly'. If you had read past the first paragraph you'd know I'm quoting from a legitimate source. Anyway...
These kinds of polls ask several questions. For the purposes of this debate, I've selected two key findings from this poll, conducted by YouGov which is independent. First, after the details of Theresa May's Brexit deal was published, support for remaining in the EU went up to 54% and leaving the EU had dropped to 46% from August. This shows that the public, knowing what Brexit is looking like, is not as keen on Brexit as it was in 2016.
Given the resistance to May's deal in Parliament, the poll asked voters what they thought of Brexit if May's deal was rejected in Parliament, which leaves the UK at the risk of exiting the EU without a deal, the % of those polled jumped up to 64% in favour of remaining to 36% in favour of still leaving the EU. Also, because Parliament is probably going to reject May's deal, this percentage is significant because the idea that the 2016 referendum meant that the public wanted to leave the EU at all costs is fatally flawed. People who believe that we should reject May's deal and leave the EU without deal just cannot masquerade as people who have the 'will of the people' at heart.
I have never claimed that Remain would get 64% of votes. The post you misquoting me is where I quote the source where it said: ‘If Ms May’s deal is voted down by MPs, that gap widened to 64 per cent to 36 per cent, excluding don’t knows’ which isn't the same thing as saying '64% of people would vote to Remain in a second referendum'. That was the first time you questioned the source, now you've gone full circle and done it again. Stop wasting both our time.
These polls are not perfect, I've never claimed that, but they're important because they gauge public opinion. They're not predicting the outcome of a second referendum and neither have I.
I'll post the link yet again, at least the third time I have done so. Have the decency to debate issues properly.
Brexit poll shows voters back second referendum as Remain takes big lead over Leave
You quoted 'at least 64% would vote remain. I pointed it out and said you would make up excuses for saying so. It is the way if this thread.
Have you changed it?Find the exact quote.
Have you changed it?
You have admitted you said 64%. You said 64% or 54% or whatever after I questioned you about it....Or words to that effect.
This just shows the bullshit of this thread up. I don't want Brexit. But I hate lies and liars. I dislike it when people try to twist the truth to preach to me. I would be agreeing with most of what is said by the remain at any cost lot on here if they could be truthful.
Just like we will suffer badly but everyone else will be OK. Or that the EU and countries in the EU will be good without us. They hate me putting up an unbiased side to the......was going to say debate but it isn't. It always ends up being an argument. I nearly always back up everything I say with links. But they get ignored and stupid comments are then made.
Good fun isn't it......
You’ve never said it could be 64% that would vote remain then? That’s odd I think you have - I’ll take look
I also think you previously said opinion polls shouldn’t be used as a basis for referendums - odd as I’m sure you have - I’ll have a look
By the way stop trying to be a condescending c**t.
You haven’t the intellect, knowledge, gravitas or humour to warrant it
Not looked for your posts. Got better things to do with my time. But the part you have put up was the one you did after I questioned you on your at least 64% would vote remain.Grendel, you brought age into this debate as if that has any relevance to the issues at hand, you can't call anyone condescending without being a hypocrite. With all due respect.
You can't find the quote, and instead of considering you made an error, I must've changed what I said. I've took the liberty to look for both of you, and you've got nothing on me. I'm very clearly quoting pollsters because I've reviewed my recent activity on this thread and all of my posts are unedited.
1) "Whichever way you spin it, it appears the public opinion is turning against Brexit. Be it 54% or 64%, depending on circumstance, it seems fundamentally wrong to drag the public through the Brexit process without another say in the matter. Pollsters will track public opinion, that’s their job. It’s asked the public questions and the results are their findings." — unedited
2) "I’m not a pollster, but here are their findings.
‘If Ms May’s deal is voted down by MPs, that gap widened to 64 per cent to 36 per cent, excluding don’t knows.’" — unedited
3) "The poll by YouGov found 54% were in favour of remaining after Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement was published. YouGov is the independent pollster. So both independent and biased pollsters have found the same thing. 54% is still a larger margin than the 51.8% that voted for Brexit in 2016.
I’ve never come across anyone so intellectually high-handed who lacks intellect. Your arguments are all bark and no bite. I was taught to not make sweeping statements at GCSE level — that’s the bedrock of your arguments." — unedited
4) "You're entitled to that opinion, but it seems more and more people think it's a good idea -- 54% of those polled would be 'screaming babies', in fact, some of them would've voted leave in 2016. 64% of those polled favours Remain if May's deal is voted down in Parliament, and there's definitely Brexiteers who would've flipped sides in that scenario.
As I mentioned in other posts, another win for Leave would do wonders for the Brexiteers in Parliament and would almost probably oust May and elevate someone like Rees-Mogg or BoJo to PM." — unedited
Not looked for your posts. Got better things to do with my time. But the part you have put up was the one you did after I questioned you on your at least 64% would vote remain.
So now you agree that the poll said 54%. Less than the polls said just before the referendum.
He said:
‘If Ms May’s deal is voted down by MPs, that gap widened to 64 per cent to 36 per cent, excluding don’t knows.’" — unedited
Please read the post. It says: "excluding don't knows"
Brexit 'in danger' unless MPs back deal - PM
This is interesting. I don't know what to believe though. Mayhem says some changes were agreed with the EU. But previously the EU said no changes have been made or would be. Could well be a play on words. Like the EU rewording it and Mayhem saying it has changed.
Not looked for your posts. Got better things to do with my time. But the part you have put up was the one you did after I questioned you on your at least 64% would vote remain.
So now you agree that the poll said 54%. Less than the polls said just before the referendum.
Oh no he said something else as well
My sister has had the same in France. She was sent official documents to sign.It’s more likely just her attempts to scare MPs into voting for it - she must know she is on borrowed time, if her deal is voted down then I don’t see how she can remain as PM.
It’s been refreshing over here not getting Brexit news 24/7, the only reference to it so far has been the Italian government saying that it would ensure Briton’s rights in the event of no deal.
I take it you deleted it then. I remember you putting at least 64% would vote remain. And I always admit when I am wrong. But I know I am not.Find it then. Put up or shut up.
And as usual I will say the same thing. Where was the poll taken. Were all able to vote.You can tell you’re just not reading my posts properly because you’re misrepresenting just about every point I make.
The sample size of 25,000 was asked numerous questions, one said 54% are now in favour of remaining in the EU. This was after May’s deal was published. The other one that says 64% asked their view on Brexit if May’s deal was rejected by Parliament.
Stop presenting it as one question asked by pollsters. They asked many questions such as; opinion on a second referendum and whether or not Brexit deal will make ‘younger people worse off’ or not.
I take it you deleted it then. I remember you putting at least 64% would vote remain. And I always admit when I am wrong. But I know I am not.
You can tell you’re just not reading my posts properly because you’re misrepresenting just about every point I make.
The sample size of 25,000 was asked numerous questions, one said 54% are now in favour of remaining in the EU. This was after May’s deal was published. The other one that says 64% asked their view on Brexit if May’s deal was rejected by Parliament.
Stop presenting it as one question asked by pollsters. They asked many questions such as; opinion on a second referendum and whether or not Brexit deal will make ‘younger people worse off’ or not.
I take it you deleted it then. I remember you putting at least 64% would vote remain. And I always admit when I am wrong. But I know I am not.
Had a quick look. This one shows your lack of accuracy. And it is on the 64% subject.You're entitled to that opinion, but it seems more and more people think it's a good idea -- 54% of those polled would be 'screaming babies', in fact, some of them would've voted leave in 2016. 64% of those polled favours Remain if May's deal is voted down in Parliament, and there's definitely Brexiteers who would've flipped sides in that scenario.
As I mentioned in other posts, another win for Leave would do wonders for the Brexiteers in Parliament and would almost probably oust May and elevate someone like Rees-Mogg or BoJo to PM.
Brexit poll shows voters back second referendum as Remain takes big lead over Leave
And as usual I will say the same thing. Where was the poll taken. Were all able to vote.
Polls are good for making a point that can't be proved or disproved. I was one of them that took big odds on us voting leave. And the polls said much more than 54% were voting remain.
Here is a result of 52 different polls in the last few months. The question was is if there is another referendum how would they vote.
If there was another referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote?
There has been several times that a quarter or more have said they are undecided. Leave/remain seem to go up/down together. Would love to.know how you get the 64% if there is another referendum. This one would be more accurate as it is 52 polls and not just one that says what you want it to. But it still won't be accurate.
Here it is again from the one you just put up yet again. Read it and reconsider what it says. It isn't that 64% would vote leave as you keep saying.Almost six in ten (59 per cent) also backed holding a fresh referendum – once “don’t knows” were discounted – the poll, commissioned by the People’s Vote and published in the Evening Standard, found.
If Ms May’s deal is voted down by MPs, that gap widened to 64 per cent to 36 per cent, excluding don’t knows.
Had a quick look. This one shows your lack of accuracy. And it is on the 64% subject.
Your link says that if the May deal was not backed 64% would want another referendum. But you state it as 64% would vote remain.
Maybe I am wrong and this is where you got the truth wrong and not what I was thinking. Yet I suppose you could still state that 64% would vote remain.
One more point. It is a YouGov poll. Their polls always put remain ahead. Or would you like to show one of their polls where leave was in front like the other pollsters get.
Here it is again from the one you just put up yet again. Read it and reconsider what it says. It isn't that 64% would vote leave as you keep saying.
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