The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (52 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

Can I just suggest, May is a useless fucking Remainer, Corbyn is just an opportunist traitor and there are no other options, so what's the answer .,,.. The UK is a calamity, rudderless with no direction at all..... Still all the dickheads in the country reckon there is room for half the planet so let the rot continue....

Serious?

 

---

[shmmeee]

I have felt sorry for her in many ways, but she does seem to be spectacularly inflexible.

She’s literally put the best seasoning possible on the shit sandwich.

Same with Corbyn TBF. Brexit has fucked every side into necessary paralysis. You’re trying to sit between two poles and not piss anyone off. Anything else and you’ve either got insurrection or you bankrupt the country.

Fucking Cameron man. What a c**t.

 

[Ian1779]

The public have no faith in Corbyn. If a decent/competent centre left leader was in charge Labour would win by a landslide ! Whilst most are slating May (I’m not fan but she’s been dealt a shit hand) she’s still usually miles ahead of Corbyn in head to head polling and considering the shambles she has made of negoations tht says all you need to know.

If Labour had a centre left leader in 2017, then we would have a Tory majority government now. The era of centrist Blairite leaders for Labour is over. Blair put pay to that by being Thatchers greatest creation. Umunna and that ilk represent smooth taking bullshitters in the game for their own personal gain, and 500K think tanks on the side.
Cooper abstained on welfare sanctions and austerity measures... not exactly socialist is it?

Don’t forget the Lib Dem’s polling at 7%. Yet you fall for the diatribe spewed out by the media.

Corbyn may not be the one to lead Labour into the future long term (I personally believe he is) - but the reality that people want change... they’re sick of rising inequality, cruel austerity and the Tories lining the pockets of the super-rich whilst everyone else suffers like they are now.

 

[clint van damme]

As I said Ian, hung parliament (not Tory win even if they are leading in one poll - appreciate most have a biase !)

The public have no faith in Corbyn. If a decent/competent centre left leader was in charge Labour would win by a landslide ! Whilst most are slating May (I’m not fan but she’s been dealt a shit hand) she’s still usually miles ahead of Corbyn in head to head polling and considering the shambles she has made of negoations tht says all you need to know

Corbyn in charge is not the answer. PV (lets call it what it is though, Second referendum) is now more likely as parliament is a joke. Self interests, no compromise

May is the women who when home Secretary told police chiefs they were being drama queens when they said cuts to police numbers would lead to terror attacks and an increase in crime.
This is the women responsible for the Windrush scandal and who threw one of her most loyal supporters, Amber Rudd under the bus at a time when Rudds father was termonally Ill.
This is a woman who took advantage of the splits in her party to duplicitously manouevre herself into number 10 so she knew full well what the job entailed.
Save your sympathy for some one who deserves it mate, one of the many victims of Tory austerity for example.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If Labour had a centre left leader in 2017, then we would have a Tory majority government now. The era of centrist Blairite leaders for Labour is over. Blair put pay to that by being Thatchers greatest creation. Umunna and that ilk represent smooth taking bullshitters in the game for their own personal gain, and 500K think tanks on the side.
Cooper abstained on welfare sanctions and austerity measures... not exactly socialist is it?

Don’t forget the Lib Dem’s polling at 7%. Yet you fall for the diatribe spewed out by the media.

Corbyn may not be the one to lead Labour into the future long term (I personally believe he is) - but the reality that people want change... they’re sick of rising inequality, cruel austerity and the Tories lining the pockets of the super-rich whilst everyone else suffers like they are now.

Centre left is where a majority of the country are ian. Corbyn will never win a majority I’m afraid. It’s auch a shame but we need to face historical facts

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

May is the women who when home Secretary told police chiefs they were being drama queens when they said cuts to police numbers would lead to terror attacks and an increase in crime.
This is the women responsible for the Windrush scandal and who threw one of her most loyal supporters, Amber Rudd under the bus at a time when Rudds father was termonally Ill.
This is a woman who took advantage of the splits in her party to duplicitously manouevre herself into number 10 so she knew full well what the job entailed.
Save your sympathy for some one who deserves it mate, one of the many victims of Tory austerity for example.

Yep. I admired what she tried to do but lost every ounce of sympathy by delaying the vote for a month

 

[Ian1779]

Centre left is where a majority of the country are ian. Corbyn will never win a majority I’m afraid. It’s auch a shame but we need to face historical facts

I respectfully disagree - 2017 suggests that transformative policies are popular because it represent change with the London centric funding culture of the last 40 years.

 

[clint van damme]

I respectfully disagree - 2017 suggests that transformative policies are popular because it represent change with the London centric funding culture of the last 40 years.

I think what Labour needs is someone to reach out to both factions and unite them with a manifesto pitched between the centrists and where the party is now, (I personally liken JC but he's not going to do it).
The Tories have the same problem and finding that unifying figure isn't easy.
Sadly for Labour they had such a man but he passed away suddenly and hasn't been replaced.

 

[Grendel]

I’m up for it

Actually I’m more than up for it. Let’s double the stake

 

[clint van damme]

Does it make you feel good spewing out random bile and hate? Does it make up for your inadequacies as a member of the human race?

Fairly sure he claims to be a practising Christian.
He should practice a bit harder. Maybe Sky blue Pete can give him some lessons when he sobers up.

 

[clint van damme]

Actually I’m more than up for it. Let’s double the stake

What's the bet?

 

[Ian1779]

I think what Labour needs is someone to reach out to both factions and unite them with a manifesto pitched between the centrists and where the party is now, (I personally liken JC but he's not going to do it).
The Tories have the same problem and finding that unifying figure isn't easy.
Sadly for Labour they had such a man but he passed away suddenly and hasn't been replaced.

The centrists IMO don’t want to be reached out to. The Labour manifesto was the best thing to come out of the party for 15 years, and they sadly won’t subscribe to it. It’s not in keeping with the Blair’s neo-liberal way.

Also worth pointing out that across Europe every centre-left/centrist political party is dying on its arse because they represent more of the same - keeping the establishment established.

 

[clint van damme]

The centrists IMO don’t want to be reached out to. The Labour manifesto was the best thing to come out of the party for 15 years, and they sadly won’t subscribe to it. It’s not in keeping with the Blair’s neo-liberal way.

Also worth pointing out that across Europe every centre-left/centrist political party is dying on its arse because they represent more of the same - keeping the establishment established.

"The centrists don't want to be reached out to".
Unfortunately I think you're correct, though they'd probably say the same about the left of the party.

 

[Ian1779]

"The centrists don't want to be reached out to".
Unfortunately I think you're correct, though they'd probably say the same about the left of the party.

Probably correct - but which ‘side’ is going to address the massive under investment in the NHS, Education, Welfare etc?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think what Labour needs is someone to reach out to both factions and unite them with a manifesto pitched between the centrists and where the party is now, (I personally liken JC but he's not going to do it).
The Tories have the same problem and finding that unifying figure isn't easy.
Sadly for Labour they had such a man but he passed away suddenly and hasn't been replaced.

I disagree, populism is in the rise and Corbyn was is in line with public opinion on a few issues. Namely on taxation and nationalisation, where the public is generally left wing. Labour’s strategy in 2015 was totally flawed because it basically offered diluted Toryism and was debating on Tory ground, such as deficit reduction. Frankly, a left wing Labour Party has, at the very least, shifted the parameters of debate more to the left.

Besides, the 2017 election has cemented Corbyn’s position as leader since Labour performed well above expectations and won a few seats it typically only wins when it wins an election (Leamington and North Warks and a seat in Plymouth) and seats it usually wouldn’t have a hope in winning (Kensington & Chelsea and Canterbury, the latter has been a seat since the 14th century and has never voted Labour before 2017).

 

[Grendel]

I disagree, populism is in the rise and Corbyn was is in line with public opinion on a few issues. Namely on taxation and nationalisation, where the public is generally left wing. Labour’s strategy in 2015 was totally flawed because it basically offered diluted Toryism and was debating on Tory ground, such as deficit reduction. Frankly, a left wing Labour Party has, at the very least, shifted the parameters of debate more to the left.

Besides, the 2017 election has cemented Corbyn’s position as leader since Labour performed well above expectations and won a few seats it typically only wins when it wins an election (Leamington and North Warks and a seat in Plymouth) and seats it usually wouldn’t have a hope in winning (Kensington & Chelsea and Canterbury, the latter has been a seat since the 14th century and has never voted Labour before 2017).

I actually think you are that clueless fuckwit Owen Jones

 

[Ian1779]

I actually think you are that clueless fuckwit Owen Jones

Does that make you Dan Hodges?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I actually think you are that clueless fuckwit Owen Jones

From Stalinist to Owen Jones... you’ve gone soft!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Fairly sure he claims to be a practising Christian.
He should practice a bit harder. Maybe Sky blue Pete can give him some lessons when he sobers up.

Am I coming across as drunk ?? Oops hic

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The centrists IMO don’t want to be reached out to. The Labour manifesto was the best thing to come out of the party for 15 years, and they sadly won’t subscribe to it. It’s not in keeping with the Blair’s neo-liberal way.

Also worth pointing out that across Europe every centre-left/centrist political party is dying on its arse because they represent more of the same - keeping the establishment established.

It’s a fair point looking around Europe but they are being replaced with piopulisn of the worst kind

 

[CCFCSteve]

Probably correct - but which ‘side’ is going to address the massive under investment in the NHS, Education, Welfare etc?

Have you not heard about the additional funding committed to the NHS ?!! (from your friend May !)

Ps Petes already stolen my answer about centre left. It’s what most the country are deep down. May wouldn’t have called the election if Corbyn wasn’t polling so poorly. He had a great campaign but there is no doubt that by now labour would have a double digit lead with a centre left leader. The tories have been a shambles and he’s level pegging ?!

Ps don’t confuse ‘centre left’ with posh liberal twats in London. I’m talking about policies that look after those that need help but in a way that doesn’t penalise people who work hard and strive for a better future.

 

[Ian1779]

I’ll assume your May comment on the NHS is tongue in cheek?!

Double digit lead is simply nonsense. According to the polling you refer to he clawed back a 20% deficit. And you think he couldn’t do something even half the size of that from an even keel if we had another GE?

The country is torn in 2 on Brexit, no leader for any party would have a decisive lead in this era. And their is no historical reference point, so comments like yours have literally no basis to support them.

The day Labour put in a centre leaning leader is they day the descend towards eventual oblivion.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Haha, yeah, it was tongue in cheek. I’m not saying he couldn’t claw back/change people’s opinions, I’m just saying that there is no doubt another leader would be far ahead in the polls when the government is in such a mess.

Apparently 100 labour MPs will press for second referendum tomorrow if no confidence vote is unsuccessful

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I actually think you are that clueless fuckwit Owen Jones

Left wing populist policies are popular when polled with the general public and have been for a long time. More to the point they work better economically and socially because they tend to be driven by evidence rather than gut feelings and a desire to hand big giveaways to the wealthiest in society.

Look at each time right wing economics has been implemented and each time the West has shat itself. Hoover, Reagan, Bush, each time a colossal fuck up. Right wing social policies which tend to restrict personal freedom are a tough sell too. So you can keep calling Corbyn a prick and Labour ideas a pile of wank but history, popular opinion and empirical evidence is on his side.

Lucky for you that Tory spin doctors include most of our national media otherwise we'd have had 20 years of uninterrupted Labour government.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’ll assume your May comment on the NHS is tongue in cheek?!

Double digit lead is simply nonsense. According to the polling you refer to he clawed back a 20% deficit. And you think he couldn’t do something even half the size of that from an even keel if we had another GE?

The country is torn in 2 on Brexit, no leader for any party would have a decisive lead in this era. And their is no historical reference point, so comments like yours have literally no basis to support them.

The day Labour put in a centre leaning leader is they day the descend towards eventual oblivion.

Years of centrism lost Scotland for good and allowed this country to be needlessly dragged to the right. Let's be clear, it's not even centrism, it's Tory-lite.

 

[martcov]

On the polls - every polling organisation has Labour ahead or level except You Gov (created and sponsored by the Tories) which is where that poll came from.

I believe that in a GE - Labour would probably be the largest party but not enough for a majority. That would probably see a Lab/SNP\PLC/Grn coalition - and in the short term a delay in Brexit. I do think Corbyn will push for the result to be respected though.

PV only really comes into play for Labour if they can’t dislodge the government.

He won’t get a coalition without a people‘s vote in the agreement.

 

[martcov]

Serious?

Not only is the hate directed at immigrants, but the description of the UK that he gives on occasions is that of an absolute hell hole. There is crime in the UK and lots of things could and should be better, but it is nowhere near a rotting overpopulated hell hole. I suspect if all the people in the UK were white English middle aged people there wouldn’t be talk of overpopulation at all.

 

[martcov]

If Labour had a centre left leader in 2017, then we would have a Tory majority government now. The era of centrist Blairite leaders for Labour is over. Blair put pay to that by being Thatchers greatest creation. Umunna and that ilk represent smooth taking bullshitters in the game for their own personal gain, and 500K think tanks on the side.
Cooper abstained on welfare sanctions and austerity measures... not exactly socialist is it?

Don’t forget the Lib Dem’s polling at 7%. Yet you fall for the diatribe spewed out by the media.

Corbyn may not be the one to lead Labour into the future long term (I personally believe he is) - but the reality that people want change... they’re sick of rising inequality, cruel austerity and the Tories lining the pockets of the super-rich whilst everyone else suffers like they are now.

Yes, but unfortunately if you delve into social media discussions, the talk is not about rich people with tax haven companies like Wigmore, Banks and co.. The people hit by inequality are talking about Juncker, immigration, economic migrants and people pretending to be refugees.

The EU monster and Merkel’s Muslims and the referendum have completely deflected the anger away from the obvious social injustice and gap between rich and poor. Ironically the heros for some are the very people who profit from the system, public schoolboys and hedgefund investors or tax dodgers living in Belize or people having offshore accounts to avoid tax.

 

[Paxman II]

Palimentarians have united in hijacking the result of the referendum. Leave means leave. I did not anticipate making deals and having terms laid down by thebrussels eliete telling us what we can and can't do. Just bloody leave. Stand tall as a country. We are more than big enough and will be very successful on our own. The EU is not the prize it was dreamt up to be and never will be. They want a federal state with one currency, one army, one government. The UK will disappear as will France, Germany etc. Edward Heath was the instigator and traitor to our country signing us away back in the 70's and keeping the real reasons and future plans from the public.

 

[Otis]

Despite the general opinion we will be a lot worse off under a no deal scenario?

I wonder what would have happened if the campaign for the referendum had been based on a no deal at all scenario. Surely the vote would have been to remain, because you would have MP after MP and party after party and business leader after business leader and financial expert after financial expert pretty much all saying that a no deal scenario outcome would be very bad and damaging to the country and to the economy.

Maybe that should have been on the ballot paper

 

[Astute]

Whatever happens the Tories that voted to get rid of her in December but back her tomorrow look like massive hypocrites.

I can't believe that so many don't understand what is going on.

A vote of no confidence on the Tory government isn't a vote of no confidence on May. For the Tories to vote against their own party is saying they are not doing a good job.

 

[Otis]

And you think they are?

May HAS to go. She should stand down now. She persisted and persisted with a deal that no-one wanted and even had the gall to delay the vote, wasting valuable time even though she knew she would eventually lose.

She should stand down now with immediate effect. She has failed the country and failed her own government.

 

[Astute]

And you think they are?

May HAS to go. She should stand down now. She persisted and persisted with a deal that no-one wanted and even had the gall to delay the vote, wasting valuable time even though she knew she would eventually lose.

She should stand down now with immediate effect. She has failed the country and failed her own government.

She has been playing for time. And she has done very well out of running the clock down.

Remember one thing. This so called deal that isn't really a deal was set by the EU. Brexit won't be happening at the set date. None of us have a clue what she is playing at. She is a remainer. It has made Corbyn become a remainer. It doesn't look good on someone who always wanted out of the EU.

As I have been saying for ages I can't see us leaving the EU. Having a deal like Norway is worse than staying in the EU. Same rules more or less but no say. Trade deals elsewhere yes. But that comes with border checks. This doesn't remove the problem with Ireland.

May hasn't been saying she wants another referendum. Corbyn knows it would alienate a lot of voters. As I keep saying lots of twists and turns to come.

So Brexit won't happen on the date. But there isn't a lot to make the date get expanded. Another GE? The Tories will win a vote of no confidence. Another referendum? It is getting more of a possibility. But who holds enough power is brave enough to call one? It could be left to a debate where nobody can be seen to be to blame. And the majority of MP's have always been in favour of staying in the EU.

This could be fun.

 

[martcov]

Palimentarians have united in hijacking the result of the referendum. Leave means leave. I did not anticipate making deals and having terms laid down by thebrussels eliete telling us what we can and can't do. Just bloody leave. Stand tall as a country. We are more than big enough and will be very successful on our own. The EU is not the prize it was dreamt up to be and never will be. They want a federal state with one currency, one army, one government. The UK will disappear as will France, Germany etc. Edward Heath was the instigator and traitor to our country signing us away back in the 70's and keeping the real reasons and future plans from the public.

You did not anticipate having to end existing financial agreements, looking after citizens rights and defining the relationship with the EU exterior border? Or regulating our future trade relationship with the countries nearest to us in the world? And that we have to make trade deals with other countries in the rest of the world if we want to carry on trading at all?

You, and people with your grasp of the world we live in, are the reason why we have a representative parliamentary democracy and not a system of referenda.

Jesus wept.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Despite the general opinion we will be a lot worse off under a no deal scenario?

I wonder what would have happened if the campaign for the referendum had been based on a no deal at all scenario. Surely the vote would have been to remain, because you would have MP after MP and party after party and business leader after business leader and financial expert after financial expert pretty much all saying that a no deal scenario outcome would be very bad and damaging to the country and to the economy.

Maybe that should have been on the ballot paper

Why listen to an expert though?